Official Goodbye LUKE WALTON Thread (Luke/Lakers Part Ways, p. 792, Signs Deal with Kings p. 809)
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Yep if coaches have so little to do with it then what's the point in having him?

Get the same old defense for when a coach is messing up or making bad calls. It's "Well he can't make the shots for the players."

If Luke's impact on the on the floor product is so minuscule then what's the point of him or any head coach then?


To act like the Coach's role is minuscule in how guys play is probably one of the biggest cop outs I hear for coaches that have very obvious flaws in their coaching approach and/or style.

And if your excuse is now "Luke is a great coach, our team/players just suck."

Great, so what are we looking forward to then this year?

Can't have it both ways. There's blame to go around, but it will always rest on the shoulders of the leader of men first, and the men he leads second.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Alright can we all not act like we haven't seen this before NOT work? Let's not act like we haven't already seen this kind of story AND complained when we were on the other end of it.

I mean come on!

We need halfcourt sets and actual set plays to be a successful NBA team, we're not a YMCA team or a Flag football team.


We have halfcourt sets and set plays. I think you're missing the point entirely.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Alright can we all not act like we haven't seen this before NOT work? Let's not act like we haven't already seen this kind of story AND complained when we were on the other end of it.

I mean come on!

We need halfcourt sets and actual set plays to be a successful NBA team, we're not a YMCA team or a Flag football team.


We have halfcourt sets and set plays. I think you're missing the point entirely.


This debate about sets and reads is all misdirection anyways. At the end of the day, I don't think I've ever heard Luke talk basketball from a coach's perspective and sound as smart as Kerr. I do think he has a lot of potential as a coach, but as I've said before, he's not helping himself or his case with how he's chosen his assistants and how he's handled himself the past year.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Luke, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying he could have surrounded himself with better help.
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Goldenwest
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject:

As far as Luke and the coaching staff, there's no tank to hide behind this year.

Thank goodness

That seems to have been the excuse for the last few years. Some people here still say Byron didn't get a fair shake because of the tank.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Alright can we all not act like we haven't seen this before NOT work? Let's not act like we haven't already seen this kind of story AND complained when we were on the other end of it.

I mean come on!

We need halfcourt sets and actual set plays to be a successful NBA team, we're not a YMCA team or a Flag football team.


We have halfcourt sets and set plays. I think you're missing the point entirely.


This debate about sets and reads is all misdirection anyways. At the end of the day, I don't think I've ever heard Luke talk basketball from a coach's perspective and sound as smart as Kerr. I do think he has a lot of potential as a coach, but as I've said before, he's not helping himself or his case with how he's chosen his assistants and how he's handled himself the past year.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Luke, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying he could have surrounded himself with better help.


I do agree that they could use some experienced hands in teaching defense, shooting among other things.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Alright can we all not act like we haven't seen this before NOT work? Let's not act like we haven't already seen this kind of story AND complained when we were on the other end of it.

I mean come on!

We need halfcourt sets and actual set plays to be a successful NBA team, we're not a YMCA team or a Flag football team.


We have halfcourt sets and set plays. I think you're missing the point entirely.


This debate about sets and reads is all misdirection anyways. At the end of the day, I don't think I've ever heard Luke talk basketball from a coach's perspective and sound as smart as Kerr. I do think he has a lot of potential as a coach, but as I've said before, he's not helping himself or his case with how he's chosen his assistants and how he's handled himself the past year.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Luke, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying he could have surrounded himself with better help.


This is my issue too. He really should have made up for his experience gaps with his staff.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
Same old story. Team sucks so lets blame the coach. Luke can't help these guys when they can't hit a three. Roster is just poorly constructed. No coach can save these guys.

We heard the story with Mike Brown/D'Antoni/Scott (he did deserve it)/ and now Luke. Crazy how fast people try pointing fingers when losses start piling up. Just have to realize we are not very good, and the greatest coach in the world won't be able to get these guys to the playoffs.


I guarantee you Snyder or Stevens can win more games than Luke with the same lineup.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:51 am    Post subject:

The team has looked better the past couple games. My main grip with Luke so far this preseason though is that we still haven't seen any real set rotations. That's common in preseason to get a look at everyone, but with the final preseason game tomorrow I hope he settles into a rotation that doesn't involve mass substitutions.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject:

We knew what we had hiring a rookie coach and I believe Luke can grow with the team. If I could point one difference between him and Atkinson is how they stick to what they preach.

You see Atkinson has a clear system and a game plan, and both numbers and eye test confirm the Nets are playing accordingly. As for Luke, we see him predicating ball movement all the time, still he likes when his players stop the movement and Iso away. I'm not talking about Ingram, but also Lou, JC, Randle,... His speech and what you see in court are not aligned.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
The team has looked better the past couple games. My main grip with Luke so far this preseason though is that we still haven't seen any real set rotations. That's common in preseason to get a look at everyone, but with the final preseason game tomorrow I hope he settles into a rotation that doesn't involve mass substitutions.

This is my only gripe with Luke really. I don't have much doubt in his understanding of the game (he was always a smart system player when he was playing with us), I think he really just struggles with his decision making and lineup patterns. Of course this is due to lack of experience, but it is one of the most crucial things that makes good coaches into great ones (or vice versa). Pop is a master of in-game adjustments for example, I think Luke may just need to see some more run with these guys before we have a consistent minutes pattern. We did change some major pieces from last year too so I'll give him a break there.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject:

Luke's going to mass sub until he has some real data to look at. He's going to have to do some guesswork and experimentation in 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Inverse wrote:
Same old story. Team sucks so lets blame the coach. Luke can't help these guys when they can't hit a three. Roster is just poorly constructed. No coach can save these guys.

We heard the story with Mike Brown/D'Antoni/Scott (he did deserve it)/ and now Luke. Crazy how fast people try pointing fingers when losses start piling up. Just have to realize we are not very good, and the greatest coach in the world won't be able to get these guys to the playoffs.


I guarantee you Snyder or Stevens can win more games than Luke with the same lineup.


Maybe. Stevens is that next great coach-- Phil -> Pop -> Stevens.

With Luke, part of me wonders if he's so focused on "culture" and "competing" that he forgets anything else. He's a great figure head as HC, but our coaching staff is NCAA level. If you threw Arizona polo's on them you'd never know the difference.

I wish he would just hire a proper coaching staff and let them design schemes, substitution patterns, and specific play calling while Luke can focus on building a culture and managing players.


Last edited by 2019 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Alright can we all not act like we haven't seen this before NOT work? Let's not act like we haven't already seen this kind of story AND complained when we were on the other end of it.

I mean come on!

We need halfcourt sets and actual set plays to be a successful NBA team, we're not a YMCA team or a Flag football team.


We have halfcourt sets and set plays. I think you're missing the point entirely.


This debate about sets and reads is all misdirection anyways. At the end of the day, I don't think I've ever heard Luke talk basketball from a coach's perspective and sound as smart as Kerr. I do think he has a lot of potential as a coach, but as I've said before, he's not helping himself or his case with how he's chosen his assistants and how he's handled himself the past year.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Luke, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying he could have surrounded himself with better help.


We tanked the last year, we put out lineups designed to lose. Basing a coack’s ability to coach and lead on that is stupid and idiotic. Let’s wait until we are actually trying to win.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Inverse wrote:
Same old story. Team sucks so lets blame the coach. Luke can't help these guys when they can't hit a three. Roster is just poorly constructed. No coach can save these guys.

We heard the story with Mike Brown/D'Antoni/Scott (he did deserve it)/ and now Luke. Crazy how fast people try pointing fingers when losses start piling up. Just have to realize we are not very good, and the greatest coach in the world won't be able to get these guys to the playoffs.


I guarantee you Snyder or Stevens can win more games than Luke with the same lineup.


That’s a check you can’t cash.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Thanks, manlisten.




The spreading of misinformation just really irks me.
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Big Game Jeff
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject:

Luke has been anything but impressive so far. Not trying to be a negative Norman, but Bill's son had better start getting some W's soon. There's talent on this team and he can't continue to lose leads - specially at Staples...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

Maybe 28 win talent on this team.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
MJST wrote:

What he did after he became the Warriors coach was surround himself with assistants that knew more than he did and allowed him to work on the motivation and the coaching, while they handled the X's and O's and the offense.

They kept Mark Jackson's defensive principles, and they added Alvin Gentry's offensive principles and Kerr just handled the egos.


Do you have actual sources or proof for the things you're saying? Where are you getting this stuff from? The people involved say Kerr had his offensive concepts from day one.

Quote:
"I don’t think I’ve made up anything that we do,” Kerr said in an interview with The Chronicle. “I’ve stolen from everybody, but most coaches would tell you the same thing.”

Kerr began collecting video clips of plays he liked when he was a broadcaster and those filtered through what he learned playing for Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich, along with working with Mike D'Antoni.

Bob Myers and the Warriors' front office didn't like Mark Jackson's isolation-heavy offense.

“We hired Steve on the heels of the Spurs’ clinic against the Heat (in the 2014 NBA Finals) on how to play basketball,” Myers said. “We felt that was the right way, that kind of ball movement. At the end of the year we looked at our passes per possession on halfcourt, and we were on the low end. Our offense was fine, we were scoring points, but how could we improve? Steve actually brought a better blueprint (to the job interview) than any candidate we could find.”


From 2014:

Quote:
So Ninkovich, with a captive audience of Warriors coaches, musters the courage to speak: What are you going to do? He asks Kerr. Will our one-on-one offense end? Will you implement the triangle offense?

"Funny you should mention that," Kerr replies. "We've got some ideas. Here, I'll show you."

And then, as Fraser looks on, Kerr swipes clear the wooden board, casting the handle in the role of a basket. He positions the board's dried cranberries and marcona almonds into two five-on-five teams in a half-court setting, with the cranberries relegated to defense. Suddenly, almond Stephen Curry, hovering near the top of the key, swings an imaginary ball to Almond Klay Thompson on the wing, then cuts to the near corner while Thompson dumps it down to Almond Andrew Bogut. Thompson and Curry set picks for each other along the perimeter, while Bogut weighs his options: find open almonds or back down his helpless cranberry.

These, Kerr explains, are aspects of the triangle offense, which he played in during the Bulls' 1990s heyday. But then Kerr pulls back, giving the noshes a breather. He notes that the Warriors would be foolish to run the triangle exclusively; it wouldn't best utilize their outside shooters. No, Kerr says. They'll run a hybrid.

These ideas have, for weeks, been rattling around Kerr's head. But he hasn't yet begun to diagram plays, or the scheme itself. Until now. And so for 10 minutes, Ninkovich watches as Kerr lays the foundation for the most devastating offense the NBA has not yet seen -- if only he could somehow turn the league's worst passing team into its best.


Re: Luke not having plays, from last year:

Quote:
“We’ll keep advancing this year, and once guys have got everything down to where you don’t even have to draw anything up on the board, then you start taking it to the next level to where if they take something away, what’s the options out of it and things like that,” Walton said. “I think it’s a never-ending process.”


I get that you don't like Luke or Kerr apparently but it's not fair to just make things up to support your confirmation bias.


oh. Someone with actual facts and not made up bs.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Quote:
Alright can we all not act like we haven't seen this before NOT work? Let's not act like we haven't already seen this kind of story AND complained when we were on the other end of it.

I mean come on!

We need halfcourt sets and actual set plays to be a successful NBA team, we're not a YMCA team or a Flag football team.


We have halfcourt sets and set plays. I think you're missing the point entirely.


This debate about sets and reads is all misdirection anyways. At the end of the day, I don't think I've ever heard Luke talk basketball from a coach's perspective and sound as smart as Kerr. I do think he has a lot of potential as a coach, but as I've said before, he's not helping himself or his case with how he's chosen his assistants and how he's handled himself the past year.

Hopefully I'm wrong about Luke, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying he could have surrounded himself with better help.


I agree and although I respect Shaw I think there are better assistant coaches out there that can help him with defense etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject:

His rotations are the reason we lose close games. This team has enough talent to win 35 games. Luke needs to really reassess his rotations. He's too concerned with having the best bench in the nba it is hindering the starting lineup
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

The only player on our roster who shot 35% from 3 or better last year is Tyler Ennis. We don't have floor spacing.
Also, outside of Brook Lopez getting a deep post catch, there isn't a player on our roster who requires a double team.
I don't know what you guys expect from Luke. We have a bad roster. And on top of that Brook and Ball have missed games.
Looking at our 1-4 preseason record. We lost to teams better than us and beat the 1 team we're better than (based on roster talent).
I feel like people are equating potential and talent. We have alot of the former on this roster. But little of the latter.
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Last edited by kikanga on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/766qo5/oram_walton_said_there_is_a_10_percent_chance/

10% chance huh? So 90% chance Kuzma starts at SF then?

Oh Luke, I'm really starting to really dislike him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject:

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/10/03/one-team-one-stat-lakers-rough-transition?collection=undefined#/

I'm sure this is old, but there are a ton of stats here that I'm hoping Luke is aware of. Most of them don't paint a pretty picture of our team.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject:

Essentially we lost our 3 top scorers last year in Nick, Lou and DLO. This is practically a brand new team trying to find its identity. With the limited amount of training camp, and the players still figuring out each others tendencies, nobody should be surprised with how we've looked. I mean we've had Tyler Ennis and Alex Caruso as our point guard rotation for crying out loud. Those guys would be lucky to be third string players on 29 other teams in the league.

But yeah, this is Luke's fault, he's gotta go
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Sago wrote:
manlisten wrote:
MJST wrote:

What he did after he became the Warriors coach was surround himself with assistants that knew more than he did and allowed him to work on the motivation and the coaching, while they handled the X's and O's and the offense.

They kept Mark Jackson's defensive principles, and they added Alvin Gentry's offensive principles and Kerr just handled the egos.


Do you have actual sources or proof for the things you're saying? Where are you getting this stuff from? The people involved say Kerr had his offensive concepts from day one.

Quote:
"I don’t think I’ve made up anything that we do,” Kerr said in an interview with The Chronicle. “I’ve stolen from everybody, but most coaches would tell you the same thing.”

Kerr began collecting video clips of plays he liked when he was a broadcaster and those filtered through what he learned playing for Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich, along with working with Mike D'Antoni.

Bob Myers and the Warriors' front office didn't like Mark Jackson's isolation-heavy offense.

“We hired Steve on the heels of the Spurs’ clinic against the Heat (in the 2014 NBA Finals) on how to play basketball,” Myers said. “We felt that was the right way, that kind of ball movement. At the end of the year we looked at our passes per possession on halfcourt, and we were on the low end. Our offense was fine, we were scoring points, but how could we improve? Steve actually brought a better blueprint (to the job interview) than any candidate we could find.”


From 2014:

Quote:
So Ninkovich, with a captive audience of Warriors coaches, musters the courage to speak: What are you going to do? He asks Kerr. Will our one-on-one offense end? Will you implement the triangle offense?

"Funny you should mention that," Kerr replies. "We've got some ideas. Here, I'll show you."

And then, as Fraser looks on, Kerr swipes clear the wooden board, casting the handle in the role of a basket. He positions the board's dried cranberries and marcona almonds into two five-on-five teams in a half-court setting, with the cranberries relegated to defense. Suddenly, almond Stephen Curry, hovering near the top of the key, swings an imaginary ball to Almond Klay Thompson on the wing, then cuts to the near corner while Thompson dumps it down to Almond Andrew Bogut. Thompson and Curry set picks for each other along the perimeter, while Bogut weighs his options: find open almonds or back down his helpless cranberry.

These, Kerr explains, are aspects of the triangle offense, which he played in during the Bulls' 1990s heyday. But then Kerr pulls back, giving the noshes a breather. He notes that the Warriors would be foolish to run the triangle exclusively; it wouldn't best utilize their outside shooters. No, Kerr says. They'll run a hybrid.

These ideas have, for weeks, been rattling around Kerr's head. But he hasn't yet begun to diagram plays, or the scheme itself. Until now. And so for 10 minutes, Ninkovich watches as Kerr lays the foundation for the most devastating offense the NBA has not yet seen -- if only he could somehow turn the league's worst passing team into its best.


Re: Luke not having plays, from last year:

Quote:
“We’ll keep advancing this year, and once guys have got everything down to where you don’t even have to draw anything up on the board, then you start taking it to the next level to where if they take something away, what’s the options out of it and things like that,” Walton said. “I think it’s a never-ending process.”


I get that you don't like Luke or Kerr apparently but it's not fair to just make things up to support your confirmation bias.


oh. Someone with actual facts and not made up bs.


Lol how refreshing
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