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Megaton
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defense
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | Luke has to figure out what his coaching personality and system is and imprint it on the team. |
So the off season before he was hired, his first season of head coaching, and his second off season were not sufficient for that? He's just going to keep collecting a paycheck and we can maybe hope that he figures it out on the fly this season?
I think it is safe to say that we're seeing his coaching personality and system and it's imprint on the team at this point. Much in the same way we can probably say we saw Kerr's imprint on the Warriors when Luke was "coaching" them.... |
To be fair to Luke, I think he's just too inexperienced. I mean, you can't just become the manager of a team in work/business without experience. Even really smart people, I have seen fail not because of a lack of intelligence, but much of leadership is about the nuances. I think Luke knows what he wants to do, but, his inexperience limits his current ability to do execute on what he wants to do.
I've seen it so many times in my career. Managers, CEOs, leaders, have all the great ideas and yet no idea on what it realistically takes to see them through. |
I get what you are saying but basketball is a relatively simple sport. You don't need a masters in Business or 1o years coaching experience to see that Deng and Ingram aren't a good pairing with Lonzo at this point. |
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HumanVictoryCigar
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: |
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I haven't seen all the comments yet but... I saw about 3 quarters last night and... Zu - not only not playing but inactive??? Bogut is NOT in game shape so that was a stunner. And Deng... he doesn't play pretty much the whole preseason, then Luke wants a "vet" in the starting lineup so he throws Deng in there and it was so bad - on national tv no less, Chris Webber is saying, "Luke needs to take Deng out here, he's not moving at all"...
wow... then, Caruso has apparently leaped over Ennis as the backup? Again, none of this in the preseason that I remember. Apparently Luke thinks he can throw whatever group he wants out there and they will suddenly play together? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | Luke has to figure out what his coaching personality and system is and imprint it on the team. |
So the off season before he was hired, his first season of head coaching, and his second off season were not sufficient for that? He's just going to keep collecting a paycheck and we can maybe hope that he figures it out on the fly this season?
I think it is safe to say that we're seeing his coaching personality and system and it's imprint on the team at this point. Much in the same way we can probably say we saw Kerr's imprint on the Warriors when Luke was "coaching" them.... |
To be fair to Luke, I think he's just too inexperienced. I mean, you can't just become the manager of a team in work/business without experience. Even really smart people, I have seen fail not because of a lack of intelligence, but much of leadership is about the nuances. I think Luke knows what he wants to do, but, his inexperience limits his current ability to do execute on what he wants to do.
I've seen it so many times in my career. Managers, CEOs, leaders, have all the great ideas and yet no idea on what it realistically takes to see them through. |
I get what you are saying but basketball is a relatively simple sport. You don't need a masters in Business or 1o years coaching experience to see that Deng and Ingram aren't a good pairing with Lonzo at this point. |
Not going to argue that point. Don't get me wrong, I think Luke needs to go at least as coach, but I'm just saying, what Luke says and what they do is in opposition.
A coach can always give up on the basketball stuff (like McAdoo did in NY for the Giants), but, if he can't get effort and alignment to his vision from his team, well, nothing else matters really. |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | Luke has to figure out what his coaching personality and system is and imprint it on the team. |
So the off season before he was hired, his first season of head coaching, and his second off season were not sufficient for that? He's just going to keep collecting a paycheck and we can maybe hope that he figures it out on the fly this season?
I think it is safe to say that we're seeing his coaching personality and system and it's imprint on the team at this point. Much in the same way we can probably say we saw Kerr's imprint on the Warriors when Luke was "coaching" them.... |
To be fair to Luke, I think he's just too inexperienced. I mean, you can't just become the manager of a team in work/business without experience. Even really smart people, I have seen fail not because of a lack of intelligence, but much of leadership is about the nuances. I think Luke knows what he wants to do, but, his inexperience limits his current ability to do execute on what he wants to do.
I've seen it so many times in my career. Managers, CEOs, leaders, have all the great ideas and yet no idea on what it realistically takes to see them through. |
Right, which makes this a failure of management--either in hiring him in the first place, or, in not insisting on surrounding him with the best assistant coaches to help his development. I mean it could be that Luke is a really gifted coach, but he lacks the x's and o's experience, and some other "nuances" as you put it. And he wasn't quite ready for the head coaching gig, but they wanted to lock up a potential long term coach. So you need to develop him in the same way you should be developing players. By not doing this, the Lakers are just demonstrating yet another institutional failure. Because by not helping to develop their coach, they are failing their young players.
And the very construction of the team points to such an organizational failure if they did not even put the pieces on the team for the coach to carry out his vision (if he, indeed, even has one). |
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tnell
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Joined: 23 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I haven't seen all the comments yet but... I saw about 3 quarters last night and... Zu - not only not playing but inactive??? Bogut is NOT in game shape so that was a stunner. And Deng... he doesn't play pretty much the whole preseason, then Luke wants a "vet" in the starting lineup so he throws Deng in there and it was so bad - on national tv no less, Chris Webber is saying, "Luke needs to take Deng out here, he's not moving at all"...
wow... then, Caruso has apparently leaped over Ennis as the backup? Again, none of this in the preseason that I remember. Apparently Luke thinks he can throw whatever group he wants out there and they will suddenly play together? |
Caruso actually played better them Ennis in the preseason but I can't defend Deng and Bogut getting more playing time over Zu lol. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | Luke has to figure out what his coaching personality and system is and imprint it on the team. |
So the off season before he was hired, his first season of head coaching, and his second off season were not sufficient for that? He's just going to keep collecting a paycheck and we can maybe hope that he figures it out on the fly this season?
I think it is safe to say that we're seeing his coaching personality and system and it's imprint on the team at this point. Much in the same way we can probably say we saw Kerr's imprint on the Warriors when Luke was "coaching" them.... |
To be fair to Luke, I think he's just too inexperienced. I mean, you can't just become the manager of a team in work/business without experience. Even really smart people, I have seen fail not because of a lack of intelligence, but much of leadership is about the nuances. I think Luke knows what he wants to do, but, his inexperience limits his current ability to do execute on what he wants to do.
I've seen it so many times in my career. Managers, CEOs, leaders, have all the great ideas and yet no idea on what it realistically takes to see them through. |
Right, which makes this a failure of management--either in hiring him in the first place, or, in not insisting on surrounding him with the best assistant coaches to help his development. I mean it could be that Luke is a really gifted coach, but he lacks the x's and o's experience, and some other "nuances" as you put it. And he wasn't quite ready for the head coaching gig, but they wanted to lock up a potential long term coach. So you need to develop him in the same way you should be developing players. By not doing this, the Lakers are just demonstrating yet another institutional failure. Because by not helping to develop their coach, they are failing their young players.
And the very construction of the team points to such an organizational failure if they did not even put the pieces on the team for the coach to carry out his vision (if he, indeed, even has one). |
Who develops a coach?!
That's like developing a CEO. You get a CEO in to make changes, put the right pieces in place, etc.
Not to learn HOW to make changes and put the right pieces in place. That's called a manager, or something.
The job requirements should be to be able to do this, not figure it out at some point, that's why you spend time as an assistant first. |
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: |
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This is a terrible wishy washy coaching staff. I don't understand the pretense regarding Deng. The whole dang world knows that you would get rid of them if you could. Heck, you dealt a #2 pick just to dump Moz. Why do you feel the need to play Deng when Kuz shined all preseason? Bury him at the end of the bench. He's a pro, he'll understand. And again, Andrew Bogut is this year's Ronnie Price. Luke has been jonesing for some Bogut ever since his GS stint. So much so that he thought he could make Mozgov into Bogut. So don't expect Ivica, to get any time soon.
These are crap rotations. |
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lonzobryant
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Joined: 05 Sep 2017
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| I can't remember but how does the Byron Scott rotations compare to Luke's rotations? I always feel like Luke is trying to make everyone happy and there is too much minute sharing going on. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | I can't remember but how does the Byron Scott rotations compare to Luke's rotations? I always feel like Luke is trying to make everyone happy and there is too much minute sharing going on. |
just as bad TBH
Luke is an idiot and hopefully Magic has the cajones to fire him this summer if this is the crap we're seeing. |
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Runway8
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Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | I can't remember but how does the Byron Scott rotations compare to Luke's rotations? I always feel like Luke is trying to make everyone happy and there is too much minute sharing going on. |
I'm not sure if he's trying to make everyone happy, or if he truly thinks he's a genius. I think it's the latter. Cause Randle sure ain't happy. He had his best preseason ever and he's in a contract year. That would be one guy to make happy. |
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lonzobryant
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | I can't remember but how does the Byron Scott rotations compare to Luke's rotations? I always feel like Luke is trying to make everyone happy and there is too much minute sharing going on. |
I'm not sure if he's trying to make everyone happy, or if he truly thinks he's a genius. I think it's the latter. Cause Randle sure ain't happy. He had his best preseason ever and he's in a contract year. That would be one guy to make happy. |
I think that's one major issue this team has that is overlooked. We have three potential starters playing in a contract year...Lopez, KCP, and Randle. And then we come out and say we're creating space to sign at least two max free agents for next year. That doesn't bode well for team chemistry. I think most thought we'd get the best production from those players because they're in a contract year but I think it'll just lead to a lot of hero ball especially with Julius. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | deal wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | Fire Luke, he sucks. |
And so have all the rececent coaches as well. Best thing to do is to
let the knee jerk LG community coach by committee.
Give it a break... |
This time the firing would be warranted. We should’ve kept D’Antoni he was and still is a great coach. |
And it was where the league was headed.
What would D'Antoni have done with a back court of Lonzo and Russell... |
People didn't see Jerry Buss's vision, except his son jim. |
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kevin61
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I haven't seen all the comments yet but... I saw about 3 quarters last night and... Zu - not only not playing but inactive??? Bogut is NOT in game shape so that was a stunner. And Deng... he doesn't play pretty much the whole preseason, then Luke wants a "vet" in the starting lineup so he throws Deng in there and it was so bad - on national tv no less, Chris Webber is saying, "Luke needs to take Deng out here, he's not moving at all"...
wow... then, Caruso has apparently leaped over Ennis as the backup? Again, none of this in the preseason that I remember. Apparently Luke thinks he can throw whatever group he wants out there and they will suddenly play together? |
I'm nowhere near throwing in the towel on Luke, but those are good , well thought out criticisms. Let's hope he learns.
Last edited by kevin61 on Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kevin61
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I haven't seen all the comments yet but... I saw about 3 quarters last night and... Zu - not only not playing but inactive??? Bogut is NOT in game shape so that was a stunner. And Deng... he doesn't play pretty much the whole preseason, then Luke wants a "vet" in the starting lineup so he throws Deng in there and it was so bad - on national tv no less, Chris Webber is saying, "Luke needs to take Deng out here, he's not moving at all"...
wow... then, Caruso has apparently leaped over Ennis as the backup? Again, none of this in the preseason that I remember. Apparently Luke thinks he can throw whatever group he wants out there and they will suddenly play together? |
I'm nowhere near throwing in the towel on Luke, but those are good , well thought of criticisms. Let's hope he learns. |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | I see what we're trying to do, but it's a rudimentary version of what the Warriors do and looks like a mess. |
And we're missing you know, shooters/scorers like Steph/Klay/KD, unless Lonzo/Ingram/[insert other] are doing it for you.  |
Yep, other than those small pieces, same thing....
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Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | I haven't seen all the comments yet but... I saw about 3 quarters last night and... Zu - not only not playing but inactive??? Bogut is NOT in game shape so that was a stunner. And Deng... he doesn't play pretty much the whole preseason, then Luke wants a "vet" in the starting lineup so he throws Deng in there and it was so bad - on national tv no less, Chris Webber is saying, "Luke needs to take Deng out here, he's not moving at all"...
wow... then, Caruso has apparently leaped over Ennis as the backup? Again, none of this in the preseason that I remember. Apparently Luke thinks he can throw whatever group he wants out there and they will suddenly play together? |
I wonder when LG is gonna remember that his nick around here used to be Puke.
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GOAT MAGIC REEL
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EDDIE DONX! |
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Joe Pesci
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Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Remember, Luke Walton was in the room, advocating and cosigning on the Mozgov and Deng deals. Let that seap in ... |
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lonzobryant
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Posts: 594
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Remember, Luke Walton was in the room, advocating and cosigning on the Mozgov and Deng deals. Let that seap in ... |
Well he saw the Warriors turn Livingston, Barbosa, and Bogut into useful players so he probably thought he could the same. He forgot we were missing one key ingredient: Steph Curry. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Can anyone say, without laughing, that there is any one player that Luke has done a masterful of elevating? I can't. Not one. |
Nick Young. |
Guys who happen to elevate under Luke like Nick and Lou have no future with the squad. So I see it as accidental. Let me see what you can do with BI Luke. How about Kuzma or Ivica? You can't do much when you play favoritism with guys like Deng and Bogut. Lonzo is Lonzo, he's box office and Luke has no choice. But I bet privately Luke be thinking, "Lonzo would sure look nice with the 2nd unit." |
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fiendishoc
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Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | I see what we're trying to do, but it's a rudimentary version of what the Warriors do and looks like a mess. |
And we're missing you know, shooters/scorers like Steph/Klay/KD, unless Lonzo/Ingram/[insert other] are doing it for you. |
The sheer gravity on a defense of Steph or Klay coming around a screen plus their all around playmaking throughout their roster will make it seem like it comes from a different planet, but the sets and principles are actually the same.
The base motion, the Delay series, isn't what I'd go to for a shooting deprived roster (although that pretty much screws us anyway) but I'll take it over what we were doing last season. The pieces just don't fit together very well. |
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Sina
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Posts: 1801
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Deng started and over JC?
Bogut over Zubac? Small ball?
Randle off the bench and got 18 minutes only?
I saw no sign for the above in preseason...
And most important, while keep saying faster pace basketball, we gave extended minutes to Lopez, started Deng and had Bogut as the first center off the bench!
It's not only about a lost, nor how many points the difference. It's about...the way we play |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| joey25 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | joey25 wrote: | | I think Luke is a great coach. I would love to play for a coach like him. He just doesn't have enough talent on the team. I mean Popovich would have struggled to win with this team too. But he would give better interviews I admit that |
How long are we gonna make this excuse? |
Until we actually have talent on the team. |
We have talent, but we will be harsh on every other coach, who had less talent than Luke, but Luke gets a pass? |
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venturalakersfan
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Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Can anyone say, without laughing, that there is any one player that Luke has done a masterful of elevating? I can't. Not one. |
Can anyone say, without laughing, that there is one player that has elevated himself? Our roster sucks, we are tanking without a draft pick, coaching isn’t going to change that. But hey, body fat, knowing what it takes to be a Laker! Amirite?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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HumanVictoryCigar
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 7601
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | joey25 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | joey25 wrote: | | I think Luke is a great coach. I would love to play for a coach like him. He just doesn't have enough talent on the team. I mean Popovich would have struggled to win with this team too. But he would give better interviews I admit that |
How long are we gonna make this excuse? |
Until we actually have talent on the team. |
We have talent, but we will be harsh on every other coach, who had less talent than Luke, but Luke gets a pass? |
I'm not giving up on Luke yet but it does seem to be a bit of both. We clearly don't have the talent that... some people think we do Some of these guys, I won't say who, are not starters in this league and some just don't belong in the league, like Huertas last year. It seems we felt the need to get another Huertas this year? What for?
and Luke... unless Zu is injured, that one is real head scratcher... Starting Deng and expecting any kind of positive outcome from that is really another. Also this whole BI thing... clearly BI isn't ready - if he ever will be - for the role they want him to play yet they keep pushing it. I'm sure BI looks great in practice because... we ain't that good! Then you try that same crap in a game with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan back there and surprisingly??? you don't get the greatest results... (sigh) |
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