5 pass minimum looks real tacky when the only place you're throwing it is around the perimeter while not driving to the basket at all or bringing the action inside.
Messina speaks about this problem in some offenses, and Luke's offense comes to mind immediately.
9:30 is where he is talking about that kind of problem and what drills/offense he uses to prevent it but also his philosophy. The "problem" as he describes it, sounds essentially like exactly how our team plays.. and it becomes that much more noticeable.
His full explanation leading up to that point is 8:04 onward, but you give the guy just 5 minutes of listen from 8 minutes to 13 minutes and you see him breaking down the proper way to utilize spacing, not just that he brought to his own offense, but the kind of stuff he does with the Spurs as and why and you see the distance between a coach like him and a coach like Walton when it comes to scheme.
As he says, it's very elementary, but it's something that not enough teams pay attention to.. and he is correct. When you see it spelled out in the way he does it, you wish that this was the kind of attention our offense was getting.
Then there's the famous 5 Point Spurs Drill
Give this video a watch too. THIS is what our players should be doing when it comes to our offense to prevent that kind of thing from happening.
When you listen to how Messina describes spacing and how to use it, and you watch what he brings up as an issue many teams do, and you watch what he drills, you understand why teams and the Spurs that do it, are so effective, and why we look terrible in our scheme by comparison.
Yes... I really freaking wish Messina was our head coach but the point remains.
I was talking to a scout the other day, and he wasn't exactly impressed with Luke's X's & O's acumen, FWIW.
Not surprised. To me it seems like he is trying to mirror the warriors way of playing. Problem is our personnel is not made or able at this point to follow that. Our shooters are not nearly as good, Randle is no Draymond Green, and our go to guys are not on the level of Durant or Curry. And our big guys are being under utilized down the stretch
I don’t think fundamental basketball strategy is that difficult to grasp, if one puts the time in, I seriously doubt it’s as difficult as calculus or thermodynamics. I’m starting to wonder if Luke is just trying to rely too much on the past, kind of like too much ‘cut and paste’
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
lakerboy wrote:
Watching McVay turning that Rams Offense in one Offseason into a Powerhouse, that "inexperienced" argument doesn't add up.
Football is more built on the film room, it's a bit more of a principle, as well as ferocious hunger. Mcvay prides himself on stealing other teams plays, love it - and you can see and hear his hunger when he speaks. Luke is below par X-O wise, and sounds asleep when he talks.
Improving to being the best X-O team in the league is all want-to, it's completely achievable with hard work from the coach ---- while the players improving has way more limiting factors.
You can hear it in his interviews, he kind of glazes over and just says words. Like young players, I will give him the chance to grow. The FO should have insisted that a veteran coach be hired to mentor him. Then again, Jeanie should have insisted on a vet executive to mentor the FO. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Watching McVay turning that Rams Offense in one Offseason into a Powerhouse, that "inexperienced" argument doesn't add up.
Football is more built on the film room, it's a bit more of a principle, as well as ferocious hunger. Mcvay prides himself on stealing other teams plays, love it - and you can see and hear his hunger when he speaks. Luke is below par X-O wise, and sounds asleep when he talks.
Improving to being the best X-O team in the league is all want-to, it's completely achievable with hard work from the coach ---- while the players improving has way more limiting factors.
You can hear it in his interviews, he kind of glazes over and just says words. Like young players, I will give him the chance to grow. The FO should have insisted that a veteran coach be hired to mentor him. Then again, Jeanie should have insisted on a vet executive to mentor the FO.
Just stop the nonsense? Why are blaming Jeannie when your boys hired Luke?
I know you have lost it all together but atleast be little reasonable
I was talking to a scout the other day, and he wasn't exactly impressed with Luke's X's & O's acumen, FWIW.
I like the improved defense. But his offensive play calling and abysmal lineups have been disappointing to say the least _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
I was talking to a scout the other day, and he wasn't exactly impressed with Luke's X's & O's acumen, FWIW.
I think you'd admit there a lot of good, even great (I can think of one...) head coaches who aren't elite X's and O's guys. I don't know if Luke was ever touted as one, it seems all anyone ever said or says about Luke is that he's a "players" coach and everyone likes him.
6-10, we’re exactly where we are expected. Same result as Utah and behind teams like Thunders, Grizzlies, Pelicans. It’s acceptable, especially with 2 rookies and a second year player as starters. Our offense and defense look organized and better than last year, although it’s not consistent yet. We have to pay attention on the details which could turn us to next level, a bottom playoff team.
If Thunders still couldn’t turnaround, we should push a trade for PG, with KCP, Randle and Zubac to give us a run for a playoff spot.
5 pass minimum looks real tacky when the only place you're throwing it is around the perimeter while not driving to the basket at all or bringing the action inside.
Messina speaks about this problem in some offenses, and Luke's offense comes to mind immediately.
9:30 is where he is talking about that kind of problem and what drills/offense he uses to prevent it but also his philosophy. The "problem" as he describes it, sounds essentially like exactly how our team plays.. and it becomes that much more noticeable.
His full explanation leading up to that point is 8:04 onward, but you give the guy just 5 minutes of listen from 8 minutes to 13 minutes and you see him breaking down the proper way to utilize spacing, not just that he brought to his own offense, but the kind of stuff he does with the Spurs as and why and you see the distance between a coach like him and a coach like Walton when it comes to scheme.
As he says, it's very elementary, but it's something that not enough teams pay attention to.. and he is correct. When you see it spelled out in the way he does it, you wish that this was the kind of attention our offense was getting.
Then there's the famous 5 Point Spurs Drill
Give this video a watch too. THIS is what our players should be doing when it comes to our offense to prevent that kind of thing from happening.
When you listen to how Messina describes spacing and how to use it, and you watch what he brings up as an issue many teams do, and you watch what he drills, you understand why teams and the Spurs that do it, are so effective, and why we look terrible in our scheme by comparison.
Yes... I really freaking wish Messina was our head coach but the point remains.
Pure basketball gold.
This also made me a little jealous
Yes, Messina is gold when it comes to basketball knowledge and scheme. One of the best out there. Which is why the Spurs are trying to groom him to take over for Pop when he steps down.
Even still he was about to give the Lakers an interview to be their coach, scheduled to come in right after Luke... but they hired Luke instead before even giving him a chance.
Words cannot describe how much I wish he was our head coach right now. We'd be attacking inside out, which would work for both Lopez and in general open up better shots along the perimeter and it would keep the defense guessing and collapsing.
Luke likes to treat taking the ball inside as your last resort at the end of the shot clock, as opposed to a constant attack which can either set up a layup or an open three in a good look.
You watch Messina break it down, and it's so simple you wonder why some teams haven't caught on, and OURS especially. When I watch the ball just travel along the perimeter and never go inside while I watch Lopez out there like a stretch 4 at the same time it is near hair pull worthy.
Then you watch true spacing broken down here by Messina and you just wish we had him.
I would love to see Ingram brought along in a similar fashion that Kawhi was.
When you consider Messina's offense and how he utilizes and sees spacing, it falls RIGHT INTO how Ingram is best used, either as a spot up shooter/cutter/ or go to the basket and those would be ideally the three things he's utilized in.
Lonzo as well, as there'd be a lot of off ball movement, the moment Lonzo got rid of the ball he'd be moving off ball to set up a situation, Lopez would be as well and it would be about using the entire floor, inside or outside.
THIS TEAM is built more so to run that kind of offense than the Warriors offense imo.
You got KCP in the Danny Green role, you've got Ingram in the Kawhi role. Kuzma's ability to stretch the floor and get inside and turn it into a post up would work wonders as he'd open things up immediately to attack or shoot.
And Lonzo would be utilized in the Tony parker role. When you watch how Parker was utilized in the offense and you think about Lonzo's size and how much you want to see him run to the basket, and you see all the off ball movement happening..
Then you see how Kawhi was utilized and you think of where Ingram currently is and what his strengths are (spot up shooting and attacking off the iso when he has a step)
In those kind of videos you see how important that 5-Point Drill is. Especially when it comes to proper spacing.
If we'd hired Messina, some Lakers fans may have been mad cause they wanted Luke after the Golden State hype, but when we look at the style this team should have ran last year, and even into this year with the inclusion of Ball. It fits so much into the kind of style Messina brings as opposed to the kind of style Golden State breaks.
Golden State can get away with that style. They have 2-3 guys around the perimeter that can destroy you from there, and at the time 2 other guys who you could count on to give the ball to in an iso situation to score on their own.
They now have 3 guys that can do that consistently at a superstar to high level all-star level.
We can NOT run the exact same offense they do, there's a very specific reason it works for them.
Yet the kind of style Messina would have brought? That's the kind of style you can make work with any kind of roster because it's adaptable to it, and it's the kind of consistent build you can continue to add to as guys continue to progress. We saw how it worked in both San Antonio, as well as Atlanta when Budenhozer a disciple of it took a lesser version of it there.
And the video you showed in the Spurs offense where it showed that sometimes they have the big around the perimeter so there's no paint protection. That was the initial idea I liked about the Lopez signing because of his ability to stretch the floor. The problem is Luke has no idea how to exploit that because no one is attacking the basket as a first option as it's open to them. We pass it around the perimeter and hope a shot opens up and if it doesn't we THEN try to get to the basket at the back half of the shot clock. Whereas attacking the basket should ALWAYS be an option if it's what's open, which is the point of the 5 point drill.
So yeah, I wish Messina was our coach with every fiber of my being, because it's not just that Luke wasn't ready to be a coach, he's bringing a style from a finished product and trying to make it work now and doesn't understand why it doesn't, thus building absolutely no foundation with it.
If we had Messina, we'd be in the 2nd year of consistency with it.
Fortunately for us, the one thing Luke brought over from Golden State was the carbon copy blueprint essentially of Mark Jackson's defensive ideas he instilled over there which is working very well for us this season thus far, though we're expected to fall back to the medium eventually.
If we could keep those defensive ideals, and bring in Messina's offense and basketball knowledge? It would be off to the races.
Sadly, I am not sure the Lakers want to build that way. The new FO is still infatuated with the "Hollywood image" of the Lakers and trying to keep us in the "WE DONT REBUILD.. WE RELOAD!!" frame of mind instead of building the way the Warriors and the Spurs did.
Well unfortunately those are the ways of the future in terms of building and growing a young team, and the Lakers once again with this new FO.. seem behind the times and stuck in the past about it. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
I was talking to a scout the other day, and he wasn't exactly impressed with Luke's X's & O's acumen, FWIW.
Do you have any material on Luke's schemes, tendencies, and what adjustments he usually makes? Would be interesting to see a breakdown especially the difference in how he approaches this year compared to last year.
I was talking to a scout the other day, and he wasn't exactly impressed with Luke's X's & O's acumen, FWIW.
I think you'd admit there a lot of good, even great (I can think of one...) head coaches who aren't elite X's and O's guys. I don't know if Luke was ever touted as one, it seems all anyone ever said or says about Luke is that he's a "players" coach and everyone likes him.
Agreed. But I think the mistake Luke made, was hiring other people like him around him instead of those who compliment him. Who is the bad cop in our good cop bad cop routine? Shaw?
5 pass minimum looks real tacky when the only place you're throwing it is around the perimeter while not driving to the basket at all or bringing the action inside.
Messina speaks about this problem in some offenses, and Luke's offense comes to mind immediately.
9:30 is where he is talking about that kind of problem and what drills/offense he uses to prevent it but also his philosophy. The "problem" as he describes it, sounds essentially like exactly how our team plays.. and it becomes that much more noticeable.
His full explanation leading up to that point is 8:04 onward, but you give the guy just 5 minutes of listen from 8 minutes to 13 minutes and you see him breaking down the proper way to utilize spacing, not just that he brought to his own offense, but the kind of stuff he does with the Spurs as and why and you see the distance between a coach like him and a coach like Walton when it comes to scheme.
As he says, it's very elementary, but it's something that not enough teams pay attention to.. and he is correct. When you see it spelled out in the way he does it, you wish that this was the kind of attention our offense was getting.
Then there's the famous 5 Point Spurs Drill
Give this video a watch too. THIS is what our players should be doing when it comes to our offense to prevent that kind of thing from happening.
When you listen to how Messina describes spacing and how to use it, and you watch what he brings up as an issue many teams do, and you watch what he drills, you understand why teams and the Spurs that do it, are so effective, and why we look terrible in our scheme by comparison.
Yes... I really freaking wish Messina was our head coach but the point remains.
I wanted Messina over Luke. But everyone was in love with the hometown guy with just one year experience.
I was fine with luke, still am, still like luke. Just wish his staff had more basketball minds in it instead of best buds. His whole staff needs to be retooled.
5 pass minimum looks real tacky when the only place you're throwing it is around the perimeter while not driving to the basket at all or bringing the action inside.
Messina speaks about this problem in some offenses, and Luke's offense comes to mind immediately.
9:30 is where he is talking about that kind of problem and what drills/offense he uses to prevent it but also his philosophy. The "problem" as he describes it, sounds essentially like exactly how our team plays.. and it becomes that much more noticeable.
His full explanation leading up to that point is 8:04 onward, but you give the guy just 5 minutes of listen from 8 minutes to 13 minutes and you see him breaking down the proper way to utilize spacing, not just that he brought to his own offense, but the kind of stuff he does with the Spurs as and why and you see the distance between a coach like him and a coach like Walton when it comes to scheme.
As he says, it's very elementary, but it's something that not enough teams pay attention to.. and he is correct. When you see it spelled out in the way he does it, you wish that this was the kind of attention our offense was getting.
Then there's the famous 5 Point Spurs Drill
Give this video a watch too. THIS is what our players should be doing when it comes to our offense to prevent that kind of thing from happening.
When you listen to how Messina describes spacing and how to use it, and you watch what he brings up as an issue many teams do, and you watch what he drills, you understand why teams and the Spurs that do it, are so effective, and why we look terrible in our scheme by comparison.
Yes... I really freaking wish Messina was our head coach but the point remains.
I wanted Messina over Luke. But everyone was in love with the hometown guy with just one year experience.
Luke has installed something new to this team: we can outrun and outscore other teams in fastbreaks now. We can create better opportunities via ball movement now, although not consistent yet. We can play decent defense now, although not focus enough at times. The team is playing in a more organized way and playing in a modern way now. With the development of our young players and confidence gained, the future looks bright.
I was talking to a scout the other day, and he wasn't exactly impressed with Luke's X's & O's acumen, FWIW.
I think you'd admit there a lot of good, even great (I can think of one...) head coaches who aren't elite X's and O's guys. I don't know if Luke was ever touted as one, it seems all anyone ever said or says about Luke is that he's a "players" coach and everyone likes him.
Anyone know how good of an X's and O's coach the following were (last 10 championship coaches)?
Kerr
Blatt/Lou
Pop
Spoelstra
Carlisle
Phil
Doc
And then just for fun, lets think about their rosters.
He might be the only coach in the league to call a timeout...bring out the same sorry lineup..call another timeout...bring out the same lineup. Why does he always do that?
I want to give Luke the benefit of the doubt but he's running out of excuses-- he built his own staff, he calls his own rotations, etc.
Not a whole lot of talent to work with but he's clearly not the coach who can instill an identity and cohesive scheme/game plan.
I don't want to see him fired but everyone on that staff needs to get axed and we need some real basketball minds instead of nice guys who love basketball.
He was fine today, there was a bit too much hate earlier in the game for a lot of (bleep) which is just out of his control. Had some weird subs in the 1st quarter, but was pretty good the rest of the game. He thankfully rode the hot hand in the 4th and gave Jules some extra run (28 minutes is a lot considering he got benched midway through his 1st half shift), cutting Brewer and Zu out of the rotation in the 2nd half.
Just watching Backstage Lakers when they did the escape room. What is Luke doing there? Is that normal? Like, does Popovich go paintballing or bowling with the team too?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
but the point remains.
