Official LUKE WALTON Head Coach Thread
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Hey MJST! Have you replaced Luke in 2K18 yet? 😂
And if so, have you replaced him with a fan made version of Messina?


I replace Luke faster in 2K18 than I did Byron TBH

At least 2K understands, Luke has pretty (bleep) ratings.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Hey MJST! Have you replaced Luke in 2K18 yet? 😂
And if so, have you replaced him with a fan made version of Messina?


I replace Luke faster in 2K18 than I did Byron TBH

At least 2K understands, Luke has pretty (bleep) ratings.


😂
Who did you replace him with?
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tox
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:53 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
LOL and 115 to Philly + 122 to Phoenix right before that. I guess you can blame Larry for hanging around the practice facility for those too.

It's also interesting how that suddenly stout defensive stretch when Larry was out was mostly against Eastern conference teams.

Aside from effort-related regression, anyone could look at our 3FG% against on open shots and conclude that a regression was in short order.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Personally I like +/-
I don't use it to show that player A is better than player B.
I like using it to see how lineups do.

Yeah that's a good usage of +/-
Though it does suffer from the problem of opponent quality.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:08 am    Post subject:

Is it possible to send a coach to G-League for a while?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject:

Haven't heard Brad Stevens or Snyder say: we need to rein it in for Tatum/d Mitchell.

Only Luke has to do it, last year with dlo and now with Kuzma
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Hey MJST! Have you replaced Luke in 2K18 yet? 😂
And if so, have you replaced him with a fan made version of Messina?


I replace Luke faster in 2K18 than I did Byron TBH

At least 2K understands, Luke has pretty (bleep) ratings.


😂
Who did you replace him with?


The dude who looks like Bobby Hill
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Personally I like +/-
I don't use it to show that player A is better than player B.
I like using it to see how lineups do.

Yeah that's a good usage of +/-
Though it does suffer from the problem of opponent quality.


True that.
I think it would be fair to always note the opponents, to not hide anything in favor one's argument.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject:

Posted today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2017/12/06/lavar-ball-bashes-lakers-coaching-staff-not-using-lonzo-ball-effectively/926297001/


LaVar bashes Lakers' coaching staff for not using Lonzo Ball effectively


Quote:
LaVar Ball said his oldest son, Los Angeles Lakers rookie point guard Lonzo Ball, is "disgusted" with how the team has been playing. And the outspoken father blamed the Lakers' recent struggles on how the coaching staff has been utilizing his son.

The Lakers have lost five consecutive games and are 8-15, which positions them far out of the early playoff picture.

"He's not used to losing like this," LaVar Ball said.

Ball (31% shooting on the season) didn't play the entire fourth quarter in Sunday's loss to the Houston Rockets and finished with just two points on 0-for-4 shooting in 22 minutes.

"The Lakers should build around Lonzo," LaVar Ball said. "Why are they sitting him down and not starting him the fourth quarter? This is why the record is raggedy."

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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Posted today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2017/12/06/lavar-ball-bashes-lakers-coaching-staff-not-using-lonzo-ball-effectively/926297001/


LaVar bashes Lakers' coaching staff for not using Lonzo Ball effectively


Quote:
LaVar Ball said his oldest son, Los Angeles Lakers rookie point guard Lonzo Ball, is "disgusted" with how the team has been playing. And the outspoken father blamed the Lakers' recent struggles on how the coaching staff has been utilizing his son.

The Lakers have lost five consecutive games and are 8-15, which positions them far out of the early playoff picture.

"He's not used to losing like this," LaVar Ball said.

Ball (31% shooting on the season) didn't play the entire fourth quarter in Sunday's loss to the Houston Rockets and finished with just two points on 0-for-4 shooting in 22 minutes.

"The Lakers should build around Lonzo," LaVar Ball said. "Why are they sitting him down and not starting him the fourth quarter? This is why the record is raggedy."


If that's considered "bashing" then they should have a read of LG's posts.
I dont agree with the tag line.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Lavar sounds like a lot of us here : lots of criticism but not much basketball analysis...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Posted today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2017/12/06/lavar-ball-bashes-lakers-coaching-staff-not-using-lonzo-ball-effectively/926297001/


LaVar bashes Lakers' coaching staff for not using Lonzo Ball effectively


Quote:
LaVar Ball said his oldest son, Los Angeles Lakers rookie point guard Lonzo Ball, is "disgusted" with how the team has been playing. And the outspoken father blamed the Lakers' recent struggles on how the coaching staff has been utilizing his son.

The Lakers have lost five consecutive games and are 8-15, which positions them far out of the early playoff picture.

"He's not used to losing like this," LaVar Ball said.

Ball (31% shooting on the season) didn't play the entire fourth quarter in Sunday's loss to the Houston Rockets and finished with just two points on 0-for-4 shooting in 22 minutes.

"The Lakers should build around Lonzo," LaVar Ball said. "Why are they sitting him down and not starting him the fourth quarter? This is why the record is raggedy."


Speaking of Lavar saw him on my flight to Detroit earlier today (well it's tomorrow now but I'm on east coast time here and...aww forget it)Looks like he was going to then connect on a philly flight for tommorows game.

Back to Luke. Yea...not happy wth him right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
I agree with you guys that Nance shouldn't be starting, but the analytics guys would tell you not to read into a four game sample that includes the Warriors and Rockets.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21691839/nba-how-luke-walton-coaching-style-was-influenced-major-nba-championship-figures-life
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
[LakerFilmRoom]
Here are all of the 5-man lineups that Lonzo's been in that've played at least 10 minutes together, and their Net Rating:

Different PF Options

Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez...................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)

Different C Options
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)

Overall

Lonzo + Clarkson + Blue + Kuzma + Randle................+40.2 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Randle + Lopez....................+32.7 (12 minutes)
Lonzo + Clarkson + Brewer + Kuzma + Randle............+31.6 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Randle..................+28.6 (52 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Nance + Lopez................+22.3 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle................+18.0 (24 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Hart + Kuzma + Randle........................+0.2 (18 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez......................-2.8 (217 minutes)
Lonzo + Brewer + Ingram + Kuzma + Lopez..................-8.9 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Lopez.......................-9.7 (155 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Bogut.....................-11.5 (11 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Nance + Randle....................-19.8 (10 minutes)
Lonzo + Deng + Ingram + Nance + Lopez....................-26.8 (13 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Clarkson + Kuzma + Randle..................-28.6 (16 minutes)
Lonzo + KCP + Ingram + Kuzma + Nance.....................-93.8 (12 minutes)


Additional info by LFR:
Here's the Net Rating for Randle's 2-Man lineups
Randle + Lopez........+32.3 (23 minutes)
Randle + Ennis........+24.9 (39 minutes)
Randle + Blue...........+9.9 (25 minutes)
Randle + KCP............+6.2 (239 minutes)
Randle + Hart...........+4.7 (207 minutes)
Randle + Ball............+3.8 (227 minutes)
Randle + Brewer........+0.4 (196 minutes)
Randle + Bogut.........+0.3 (58 minutes)
Randle + Kuzma.........-1.1 (334 minutes)
Randle + Clarkson......-2.5 (396 minutes)
Randle + Ingram........-4.3 (232 minutes)
Randle + Nance........-30.7 (17 minutes)
Randle + Caruso.......-46.0 (16 minutes)
Randle + Zubac........-50.0 (4 minutes)



It's hard to defend Luke's stubbornness and approach. Even looking at the Kuzma situation where he re-benched him just cause Larry returned.

Think of it this way, what if Steve Kerr had said once David Lee came back after all the good stuff Draymond did "Well I don't know why Lee should not start" and just benched Draymond again.... (GT also made this analysis on his podcast).

That's essentially what Luke did with Kuzma. But the numbers also backup that he SHOULD be playing Randle next to Lopez a heck of a lot more, and that his favorite lineup with Nance that he keeps going to is the worst of the three, but he keeps plodding forward with it instead of doing the right thing that could help lead this team to more wins.

The most frustrating thing is that not only has Luke not surrounded himself with proper assistants that can help him in areas he struggles with, opting instead to go with friends and Arizona alum... he is also ignoring the stats the analytics upgrade are obviously sending to him, and not letting it change his approach, his lineups, or any kind of adjustments he should be making.
Because, again, he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong whatsoever, and refuses to acknowledge his own mistakes in the matter, and doesn't see how his approach to lineups, coaching, and playtime aren't hurting this team from performing as well as it possibly can.

He doesn't acknowledge these things, so these stats go largely unnoticed and likely with a "I'll take it into consideration" attached to it, with no intent to actually do it.

It's no different to how Byron treated the analytics guys, and when you have a coach that thinks they have nothing to learn, aren't making mistakes, and ignores analytics, then that coach is holding the team back, and that coach needs to go.

Luke has now, fallen into that category.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject:

@LakersSBN
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Walton: I think Im going to play Bogut more with Embiid on the floor tonight.
Me:
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https://twitter.com/LakersSBN/status/938918420807946240
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
@LakersSBN
Following Following @LakersSBN

Walton: I think Im going to play Bogut more with Embiid on the floor tonight.
Me:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/b0166f92caacaeeac7f031da2a136ec5/tenor.gif
https://twitter.com/LakersSBN/status/938918420807946240
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject:

he should play Bogut more, Embiid ROASTED Julius last time. I can't wait for Brook Lopez to come out and brick about 3 or 4 threes in the first five minutes though, Lopez is so slow those long rebounds lead to fast breaks the other way then people will bash Lonzo for passing him the ball in the first place despite the fact that he is doing what Luke told him to do... ah, the big circle of blame, soon to begin again...
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject:

we need a better gameplan against embiid for sure (more double teaming) but I don't think bogut is the answer
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
But the numbers also backup that he SHOULD be playing Randle next to Lopez a heck of a lot more ... ignores analytics .


I have no problem if you think Lopez and Randle should play more together. But the numbers being used in this thread are too superficial and filled with too much noise to provide a compelling analysis.

In fact, labeling them "analytics" is really just throwing out buzzwords to try to make the numbers seem like they say more than they actually do, You'd be hard pressed to find many data scientists who would call any of the numbers being used in this thread to be analytics.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject:

If anyone's interested, Darius & I went pretty in depth on Luke in our most recent pod.

https://soundcloud.com/user-456873398/lets-talk-about-luke
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Good first half.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject:

Bad substitutions in the 4th.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Thank you for not calling a timeout.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Why he trying to keep playing Lopez in the 4th. He sucks.
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