Official Goodbye LUKE WALTON Thread (Luke/Lakers Part Ways, p. 792, Signs Deal with Kings p. 809)
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:28 pm    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:

Considering all of the rambling from Dr. Laker that you have agreed to and then added on to... i.e., the bits before the part that I've highlighted in large, bold, red font... you will of course understand that I HAVE to ask... Do you not want Lue or Williams because of racial bias?! TSK TSK! :shock_horror:


Don't remember saying I agree with Dr. Laker's thoughts specifically.

I don't want Lue or Williams. And I know race plays zero factor in my coaching evaluation.

But to imply that disproves racial bias (or that it proves I'm biased) is .... stupid. Sorry can't think of a more appropriate word for that assumption. Not saying you're stupid. But that line of thought is. I can think of alot of metaphors to compare it to. But they are all insulting.
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LAL1947
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:

Considering all of the rambling from Dr. Laker that you have agreed to and then added on to... i.e., the bits before the part that I've highlighted in large, bold, red font... you will of course understand that I HAVE to ask... Do you not want Lue or Williams because of racial bias?! TSK TSK! :shock_horror:


Don't remember saying I agree with Dr. Laker's thoughts specifically.

I don't want Lue or Williams. And I know race plays zero factor in my coaching evaluation.

But to imply that disproves racial bias (or that it proves I'm biased) is .... stupid. Sorry can't think of a more appropriate word for that assumption. Not saying you're stupid. But that line of thought is. I can think of alot of metaphors to compare it to. But they are all insulting.

I'm not implying that it disproves racial bias. I am implying that you need to realize you cannot apply one rule to yourself and your thoughts... while simultaneously applying another rule to others. What makes you think that race plays ANY factor in anyone else's "coaching evaluation" here on LG if they do not want Lue or Monty or Kidd or Jackson as the Lakers coach? Dr. Laker and you don't just think it ... but then went and made blanket statements saying racial bias exists here on LG (albeit, you to a lesser degree than him). Who died and made the two of you morally superior to everyone else?

Speaking of insulting, do you not realize how this could be insulting to other folks? Again, I am not saying bias does not exist. However, I'd be willing to wager that the percentage of people who post here on LG and are racially motivated or biased is miniscule at best. So you're preaching to the choir. If you want to view the world through sunglasses that are tinted with racial bias, that's how you will end up seeing it.

Also, I hope you will understand I was using your post as an example for Dr. Laker and others who agreed with him... to highlight the ridiculousness of this conversation... but I doubt he/they have the awareness to make these connections without it being spelled out.
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Stumpy25
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
How is luke a good coach


I'm not trying to give props to Luke but I don't think he's a bad coach just a mediocre one. His biggest mistakes was hiring an incompetent staff, and not being able to make the proper adjustments during the game.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:19 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Now is this a good example of white privilege? The guy was unemployed a day!


Wow, nice statement. Has nothing to do with being white. Maybe read a little on why he got the job so quickly:

1) Kings wanted Luke as a coach since 2016
2) Kings fired their coach this week
3) Luke parted ways with the Lakers
4) Kings wanted Luke as a coach since 2016
5) Kings and Luke had mutual interest
6) Kings made Luke a deal

He could have been black, Chinese, Indian or Mexican, didn't matter. Its who the Kings wanted.

By the way, Vlade is not white, FYI...in case you didn't know.


Serbians are white. Ethnically, genetically and culturally.

The fringe of the White Power movement (OK, the fringe of the fringe) assign a "lesser degree of whiteness" to central Europeans and Slavs from the more southerly portions of Europe, but genetically it is a non-starter.

Ditto Armenians & Persians - geographically, they are Asian, but genetically they are Caucasian.

And yes, Luke is benefiting from white privilege:

Ty Lue - 3 years a HC: 211-128, 3 trips to playoffs, NBA title, cannot buy a job.

Mark Jackson - 3 years as HC: 121-109, 2 trips to playoffs, cannot buy a job.

Jason Kidd - 5 years as HC: 183-190, 3 trips to playoffs, cannot buy a job

Luke Walton - 3 years as HC: 98-148, no playoffs, had a job lined up before he lost this one.

The black guys are all headcases/attitude problems/lazy-bums-with-no-work-ethic, despite making the playoffs and winning championships.

The white guy is 50 games below .500 with a high water mark of 36, with a team that has consistently failed to defend or play as a team.

But the white guy deserves another shot.

And yet the mods closed the "White Male Sports Privilege" thread.


In general, I’d tend to agree with you that it is much much easier to be a white coach and both get and keep a job with similar performance than a minority coach. The narrative is different too. White coaches are the ones most associated with X and O brilliance, while most minority coaches are relegated to either disciplinarian or players coach.

Not sure that Kidd and Jackson are the best examples of unfairness though, and frankly, Lue quit with health issues and I haven’t exactly seen him looking for jobs up to now. But there are a number of minority coaches that might have a beef.


There's a lot of privileges around, but the argument was based on cherry picking examples. Consider all HC moves this season:

Thibs, Hornacek, Vogel and SVG lost their jobs and are still on the market. Hoiberg waited for months and returned to College BB.

Coaches that were hired right after being fired: Bud, Clifford and Casey. Fizdale was hired after a couple of months of his dismissal.

Some coaches are burned after their last job, like Kidd, Thibs and Jackson. Lue, just like pointed above, didn't want to take a gig before addressing some "health issues".
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:20 am    Post subject:

A few things. Luke is benefitting because of his connection to golden state (Kerr) and phil jackson. He literally is connected to two of the best three coaches in the recent NBA. Second Luke overall record ignores the improvement shown from what LA was when he originally got here. From Luke’s hire date to December 25th 2018 Luke had a resume of an impressive and improving coach. Then a cluster of errors happened. Nothing to do with race in this. Plus if including his overall record why not include his time at golden state or how he wanted to keep lopez and randle? Doesnt fit the social narrative you want to peddle, does it?
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TheKing23
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:21 am    Post subject:

murica
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nshid
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Now is this a good example of white privilege? The guy was unemployed a day!


Wow, nice statement. Has nothing to do with being white. Maybe read a little on why he got the job so quickly:

1) Kings wanted Luke as a coach since 2016
2) Kings fired their coach this week
3) Luke parted ways with the Lakers
4) Kings wanted Luke as a coach since 2016
5) Kings and Luke had mutual interest
6) Kings made Luke a deal

He could have been black, Chinese, Indian or Mexican, didn't matter. Its who the Kings wanted.

By the way, Vlade is not white, FYI...in case you didn't know.


Serbians are white. Ethnically, genetically and culturally.

The fringe of the White Power movement (OK, the fringe of the fringe) assign a "lesser degree of whiteness" to central Europeans and Slavs from the more southerly portions of Europe, but genetically it is a non-starter.

Ditto Armenians & Persians - geographically, they are Asian, but genetically they are Caucasian.

And yes, Luke is benefiting from white privilege:

Ty Lue - 3 years a HC: 211-128, 3 trips to playoffs, NBA title, cannot buy a job.

Mark Jackson - 3 years as HC: 121-109, 2 trips to playoffs, cannot buy a job.

Jason Kidd - 5 years as HC: 183-190, 3 trips to playoffs, cannot buy a job

Luke Walton - 3 years as HC: 98-148, no playoffs, had a job lined up before he lost this one.

The black guys are all headcases/attitude problems/lazy-bums-with-no-work-ethic, despite making the playoffs and winning championships.

The white guy is 50 games below .500 with a high water mark of 36, with a team that has consistently failed to defend or play as a team.

But the white guy deserves another shot.

And yet the mods closed the "White Male Sports Privilege" thread.


In general, I’d tend to agree with you that it is much much easier to be a white coach and both get and keep a job with similar performance than a minority coach. The narrative is different too. White coaches are the ones most associated with X and O brilliance, while most minority coaches are relegated to either disciplinarian or players coach.

Not sure that Kidd and Jackson are the best examples of unfairness though, and frankly, Lue quit with health issues and I haven’t exactly seen him looking for jobs up to now. But there are a number of minority coaches that might have a beef.


There's a lot of privileges around, but the argument was based on cherry picking examples. Consider all HC moves this season:

Thibs, Hornacek, Vogel and SVG lost their jobs and are still on the market. Hoiberg waited for months and returned to College BB.

Coaches that were hired right after being fired: Bud, Clifford and Casey. Fizdale was hired after a couple of months of his dismissal.

Some coaches are burned after their last job, like Kidd, Thibs and Jackson. Lue, just like pointed above, didn't want to take a gig before addressing some "health issues".


The answer to all of this is the obvious answer:

YES
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Startrout
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject:

What happened to this thread. Can we stop this nonsense or move it?
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€H£M£$TR¥
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject:

Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?


They have Fox. He could be better than DLO.
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
Dr. Laker and you don't just think it ... but then went and made blanket statements saying racial bias exists here on LG (albeit, you to a lesser degree than him).


Actually, I started a thread here to discuss specifics (rather than blanket statements), but the thread was closed without explanation and none of the mods who I contacted owned up to closing or offered an explanation as to why.

I do not wish to (further) hi-jack this thread, so perhaps the mods could reopen the "White Male Sports Privilege" thread, if only to contain the discussion.

But to look at the dog whistle language and "code words" that some posters use here specifically related to black HC candidates, and the misogyny that is directed towards Jeanie cannot be termed as anything other than what it is (how often is she alternately characterized as a weak little girl or hormonal harridan, sometimes in the same post?).

I've been on this board since the beginning and have never raised the issue before, because it never was a (big) issue until Jim Buss was fired and replaced by Magic.

Check that - the misogyny towards Jeanie has been an issue for years, but being a guy, I mostly let is pass (which is an indictment against me). As an ethnic minority, I'm am more attuned to picking up racial stuff, but the genderism is huge.
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Last edited by Dr. Laker on Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

GonzagaAlum wrote:
A few things. Luke is benefitting because of his connection to golden state (Kerr) and phil jackson. He literally is connected to two of the best three coaches in the recent NBA. Second Luke overall record ignores the improvement shown from what LA was when he originally got here. From Luke’s hire date to December 25th 2018 Luke had a resume of an impressive and improving coach. Then a cluster of errors happened. Nothing to do with race in this. Plus if including his overall record why not include his time at golden state or how he wanted to keep lopez and randle? Doesnt fit the social narrative you want to peddle, does it?


Also, it's the friggin' Kings! Vlade might value a potted plant for coach in a few months.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

Luke is quickly becoming the Chip Kelly of NBA coaches. Take that how ever you will.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject:

Luke's introductory press conference is starting now for those interested.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
Dr. Laker and you don't just think it ... but then went and made blanket statements saying racial bias exists here on LG (albeit, you to a lesser degree than him).

Imagine telling MLK racism doesn't exist because he wasn't racist.
Or telling a Ghandi violence doesn't exist because he wasn't violent.
I have no delusions of grandeur. I know I'm not a civil rights leader. I'm just saying. If someone advocates for a cause. That doesn't prove the cause doesn't exist.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
How is luke a good coach


I'm not trying to give props to Luke but I don't think he's a bad coach just a mediocre one. His biggest mistakes was hiring an incompetent staff, and not being able to make the proper adjustments during the game.


His biggest mistake was coaching for a franchise that tanked for 6 years. He won’t have that problem in Sacramento.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?


They have Fox. He could be better than DLO.


There is nothing wrong with them having both.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:38 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?


They have Fox. He could be better than DLO.


There is nothing wrong with them having both.


Mind Blown.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?


They have Fox. He could be better than DLO.


There is nothing wrong with them having both.


People still need to maintain their 2015 positions VLF. Come on now. #OAK4LIFE
#MudiayMovesMe
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?

Russell isn’t leaving Brooklyn.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Divac and Luke any bets they’re in the DLo sweepstakes?


They have Fox. He could be better than DLO.


There is nothing wrong with them having both.


People still need to maintain their 2015 positions VLF. Come on now. #OAK4LIFE
#MudiayMovesMe


You don’t know me then. Check the scoreboard. 🤣
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject:

Russell Fox would be hard to guard.

Russell Ball would be damn near unstoppable, if not for injuries or the circus that surrounds the Lakers.
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2019
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Russell Fox would be hard to guard.

Russell Ball would be damn near unstoppable, if not for injuries or the circus that surrounds the Lakers.


too bad no team ever had the chance to pair those 2....
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:34 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Russell Fox would be hard to guard.

Russell Ball would be damn near unstoppable, if not for injuries or the circus that surrounds the Lakers.


But defensively there could be problems
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Russell Fox would be hard to guard.

Russell Ball would be damn near unstoppable, if not for injuries or the circus that surrounds the Lakers.


too bad no team ever had the chance to pair those 2....


I'd hate to support the team that prevented it from happening!!!

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