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Inspector Gadget
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
So he's gonna start at SF? I mean not sure the worse of it all is not having Ingram fully invested.. And we aren't gonna let someone come off the bench when we are paying him 70+ M.
I rather Let Deng play majority of his minutes at the 4, we don't have much options, especially since Luke might use Nance/Randle as a small ball big man. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
So he's gonna start at SF? I mean not sure the worse of it all is not having Ingram fully invested.. And we aren't gonna let someone come off the bench when we are paying him 70+ M.
I rather Let Deng play majority of his minutes at the 4, we don't have much options, especially since Luke might use Nance/Randle as a small ball big man. |
We have a ton of options at the 4, not many at the 3. Deng will be starting and playing major minutes at the 3. Look at the freakin roster for God's sake.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
So he's gonna start at SF? I mean not sure the worse of it all is not having Ingram fully invested.. And we aren't gonna let someone come off the bench when we are paying him 70+ M.
I rather Let Deng play majority of his minutes at the 4, we don't have much options, especially since Luke might use Nance/Randle as a small ball big man. |
We have a ton of options at the 4, not many at the 3. Deng will be starting and playing major minutes at the 3. Look at the freakin roster for God's sake. |
Do you prefer Ingram as the starter or Deng? Honestly it does seem like we need to shuffle some roles on the roster or else a lot of players are gonna see decreased minutes. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
So he's gonna start at SF? I mean not sure the worse of it all is not having Ingram fully invested.. And we aren't gonna let someone come off the bench when we are paying him 70+ M.
I rather Let Deng play majority of his minutes at the 4, we don't have much options, especially since Luke might use Nance/Randle as a small ball big man. |
We have a ton of options at the 4, not many at the 3. Deng will be starting and playing major minutes at the 3. Look at the freakin roster for God's sake. |
Do you prefer Ingram as the starter or Deng? Honestly it does seem like we need to shuffle some roles on the roster or else a lot of players are gonna see decreased minutes. |
I have no problem with Ingram coming off the bench. He is 19 years old and needs to develop physically and mentally adjust to the NBA.
Start Deng. Play him 24-28mpg. Let Ingram earn his mpg and spend some time playing against the second units the majority of the time. If he develops and can contribute faster then I expect that is a good "problem". He can potentially get SG mpg too.
Ingram can easily get his 24-28 mpg if he earns it. Let him do it against the bench instead of the starters in the League. Short spurts not a problem, extended mpg against the Leonards, Lebrons and Durants of the League is not needed this year" IMO. That is why Deng was signed. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
So he's gonna start at SF? I mean not sure the worse of it all is not having Ingram fully invested.. And we aren't gonna let someone come off the bench when we are paying him 70+ M.
I rather Let Deng play majority of his minutes at the 4, we don't have much options, especially since Luke might use Nance/Randle as a small ball big man. |
We have a ton of options at the 4, not many at the 3. Deng will be starting and playing major minutes at the 3. Look at the freakin roster for God's sake. |
Do you prefer Ingram as the starter or Deng? Honestly it does seem like we need to shuffle some roles on the roster or else a lot of players are gonna see decreased minutes. |
Do you know how to read?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
Yes, and while Deng played only a bit over a quarter of his minutes at 3 last year, he was actually better defensively there.
He gave up .47 EFG% and 13 points per 36 vs .52 and 14 at the 4. The Heat actually had a better team defensive rating with him at 3 as well. But offensively he was much better at 4, and that's really what the Heat's problems were, so the minor loss in defense was offset by him stretching the floor effectively at 4.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
So he's gonna start at SF? I mean not sure the worse of it all is not having Ingram fully invested.. And we aren't gonna let someone come off the bench when we are paying him 70+ M.
I rather Let Deng play majority of his minutes at the 4, we don't have much options, especially since Luke might use Nance/Randle as a small ball big man. |
We have a ton of options at the 4, not many at the 3. Deng will be starting and playing major minutes at the 3. Look at the freakin roster for God's sake. |
Do you prefer Ingram as the starter or Deng? Honestly it does seem like we need to shuffle some roles on the roster or else a lot of players are gonna see decreased minutes. |
Do you know how to read? |
Yep, but you understood me just like with any user who debates with you. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| I understand that Deng is versatile enough to play 2-3 positions so I'm gonna his minutes are gonna be spilt at each position. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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It isn't about Deng, it is about winning some games and developing young players. Deng will play the majority of his minutes at SF, not eating into Randle and Nance's development. Ingram will back him up and get minutes at the 2.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | It isn't about Deng, it is about winning some games and developing young players. Deng will play the majority of his minutes at SF, not eating into Randle and Nance's development. Ingram will back him up and get minutes at the 2. |
Yeah. That's why I mentioned that the roster has a lot of players that can play different roles. |
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Roon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
Yes, and while Deng played only a bit over a quarter of his minutes at 3 last year, he was actually better defensively there.
He gave up .47 EFG% and 13 points per 36 vs .52 and 14 at the 4. The Heat actually had a better team defensive rating with him at 3 as well. But offensively he was much better at 4, and that's really what the Heat's problems were, so the minor loss in defense was offset by him stretching the floor effectively at 4. |
Thank you for pointing out the defensive differences. There is definitely a meme going around that Deng is vastly superior at the 4, and even useless at the three. If he can play solid defense at the 3, spread the floor, move the ball than that is perfect for this team.
That's why we signed Deng. Not to make Nance or Randle a 3rd string PF. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="yinoma2001"]I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF.[/quote
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | epak wrote: | | I'd be shocked if BI starts game 1, unless he blows our minds in training camp/preseason, |
True but ingram is the best person at the 3. Deng is best suited at the 4 at his age. Swaggy is not starting caliber type never has been. Brown is not starting caliber either. Ingram at least provides defense/length that can keep up with modern day forwards. Deng although experienced is a little over the hill to keep up with starting small forwards like your kawaii leonards, kds, lebrons, pg3s, etc. Deng used to be a great lock down defender back in the day but relying on him as the starting sf I think is asking too much of him. He will get torched by modern day 3s. |
Deng will likely spend most of his court time at SF. |
If he does, and it's as a starter against opposing starting sfs, he's gonna get dominated by most of them and will be injured a quarter of the way into the season. |
Except for last year, Deng has played almost 80% of his time at SF. Including the year before last.
Deng playing the PF position last year as a desperation move by the Heat after Bosh went down. They had few options. They changed on the run. To his credit Deng played well in that role.
But on this team this year I expect him to play SF the majority of the time. JMO but I see a C and PF types on the floor with Deng almost all the time. I love his versatility but he is here to play SF and mentor Ingram. |
Yes, and while Deng played only a bit over a quarter of his minutes at 3 last year, he was actually better defensively there.
He gave up .47 EFG% and 13 points per 36 vs .52 and 14 at the 4. The Heat actually had a better team defensive rating with him at 3 as well. But offensively he was much better at 4, and that's really what the Heat's problems were, so the minor loss in defense was offset by him stretching the floor effectively at 4. |
So the opposite of our situation. Offense isn't gonna be the problem, but we'll need defense.
In which case Deng at the 3 serves the purpose better, considering he'll be surrounded by 3 scorers.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
Consider this as well.. when Ingram is starting at the 3, we still have a defensive lineup on our bench of Deng and Nance Jr....
In time you can add Zubac to that list for a defensive 3,4,5 combination. At that point even if our 1/2 are lacking in offense as far as our backups go, they've got a VERY VERY solid defensive lineup behind them to make up for it.
Last edited by MJST on Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
In the future, Ingram/Deng at SF will be one of the better SF defensive tandems.
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pio2u
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
In the future, Ingram/Deng at SF will be one of the better SF defensive tandems. |
I think Deng will be washed by that time.. 2-3 years, yea.. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
In the future, Ingram/Deng at SF will be one of the better SF defensive tandems. |
Or one of the best wing tandems at the 2 and 3. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
In the future, Ingram/Deng at SF will be one of the better SF defensive tandems. |
Or one of the best wing tandems at the 2 and 3. |
Or 3/4. Ingram at the 2 is something Byron would do. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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What is his role gonna be? |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
In the future, Ingram/Deng at SF will be one of the better SF defensive tandems. |
Or one of the best wing tandems at the 2 and 3. |
Or 3/4. Ingram in the doghouse is something Byron would do. |
FIXED  |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: |
What is his role gonna be? |
Assistant coach and advance scout |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
What is his role gonna be? |
Assistant coach and advance scout |
Yeah but what is he gonna help with? Also does advance Scout means that he's good with talent evaluation? |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
What is his role gonna be? |
Assistant coach and advance scout |
Yeah but what is he gonna help with? Also does advance Scout means that he's good with talent evaluation? |
An advance scout scouts the other teams that the team will be playing.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think when Ingram is ready to be our starting SF, it'll be really nice to have a combo forward in Deng. Right now he'll play mostly SF. |
It's good to finally have defense at the 3. |
In the future, Ingram/Deng at SF will be one of the better SF defensive tandems. |
Or one of the best wing tandems at the 2 and 3. |
Or 3/4. Ingram at the 2 is something Byron would do. |
That makes no sense. Why do you think Ingram at the 2 is a bad idea, and why would Byron do that? |
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