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GoldenThroat
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 Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Saw the presser. Said they can't afford to go down by the 6 minute mark each time they step on the floor. He was pretty bummed out about the starting unit. Was pretty confident about the bench however. |
Except for Russell the bench has more talent and is the better team that's why. |
Mozgov vs Black
Randle vs Nance
Deng vs Ingram
Lou vs JC/Young
DLO vs Calderon/Marcelo
Outside of the PG position, there hasn't been much separation in play between them |
The starters are giving up too many points in the first quarter, and Luke hinted that changes will be made. |
While it remains to be seen if he makes changes and what they'll be, it sure is nice to have a coach who recognizes "hey, this isn't working" and looks to change it when it becomes apparent, rather than running into the same brick wall over and over and over again. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Saw the presser. Said they can't afford to go down by the 6 minute mark each time they step on the floor. He was pretty bummed out about the starting unit. Was pretty confident about the bench however. |
Except for Russell the bench has more talent and is the better team that's why. |
Mozgov vs Black
Randle vs Nance
Deng vs Ingram
Lou vs JC/Young
DLO vs Calderon/Marcelo
Outside of the PG position, there hasn't been much separation in play between them |
The starters are giving up too many points in the first quarter, and Luke hinted that changes will be made. |
While it remains to be seen if he makes changes and what they'll be, it sure is nice to have a coach who recognizes "hey, this isn't working" and looks to change it when it becomes apparent, rather than running into the same brick wall over and over and over again. |
True.
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anpherknee
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Joined: 14 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Saw the presser. Said they can't afford to go down by the 6 minute mark each time they step on the floor. He was pretty bummed out about the starting unit. Was pretty confident about the bench however. |
Except for Russell the bench has more talent and is the better team that's why. |
Mozgov vs Black
Randle vs Nance
Deng vs Ingram
Lou vs JC/Young
DLO vs Calderon/Marcelo
Outside of the PG position, there hasn't been much separation in play between them |
The starters are giving up too many points in the first quarter, and Luke hinted that changes will be made. |
While it remains to be seen if he makes changes and what they'll be, it sure is nice to have a coach who recognizes "hey, this isn't working" and looks to change it when it becomes apparent, rather than running into the same brick wall over and over and over again. |
You telling me you dont only make adjustments after an arbitrary number of games that is usually divisible by the number 5?
Who woulda thunk it  |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| anpherknee wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Saw the presser. Said they can't afford to go down by the 6 minute mark each time they step on the floor. He was pretty bummed out about the starting unit. Was pretty confident about the bench however. |
Except for Russell the bench has more talent and is the better team that's why. |
Mozgov vs Black
Randle vs Nance
Deng vs Ingram
Lou vs JC/Young
DLO vs Calderon/Marcelo
Outside of the PG position, there hasn't been much separation in play between them |
The starters are giving up too many points in the first quarter, and Luke hinted that changes will be made. |
While it remains to be seen if he makes changes and what they'll be, it sure is nice to have a coach who recognizes "hey, this isn't working" and looks to change it when it becomes apparent, rather than running into the same brick wall over and over and over again. |
You telling me you dont only make adjustments after an arbitrary number of games that is usually divisible by the number 5?
Who woulda thunk it |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Us fans get to see the Lakers play twice a week for 48 minutes - 96 minutes a week.
Luke & his staff get to see them practice 3 hours a day, every day. And see them when they are working out before and after practice too.
Generally, I'm prepared to give Luke a large share of benefit of the doubt that he knows more then any of us do...
Having said that, based on the games we've seen so far, if he wants the best players on the starting 5 it needs to be:
Dlo
Young
Deng
Nance
Moz
Lou is a ball stopper that plays no D, and doesn't do anything within the offense that makes any other player successful.
Randle is a 2 trick pony that plays very little D, no team/help D, and other then the occasional assist also doesn't do much for the team. He also only goes 100% about 5% of the time - and less than 50% about 50% of the time. He's pretty good at his 2 tricks, but pretty much nothing else.
Young (right now) plays tough D, spreads the floor, and is even showing he can make plays for others.
Nance goes 110% absolutely all the time. He plays tough D, and is good at team/help D. He moves in the offense constantly, and he can get people the ball where they can use it. Look at all the assists he gets to Black - now imagine him doing that with Moz? And even Deng/Young for 3's.
If Luke wants to cut down on the opposing starters running out to early leads, he needs to get the best defenders out there. It just so happens the 2 best defenders in Young/Nance are also probably going to make the offense work better also.
But, of course, that is what we get to see in a limited # of games - they might be seeing things in practice that are making him stick with Lou & Randle that don't make much sense on the surface of things.
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Last edited by P.K. on Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dood23
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | Us fans get to see the Lakers play twice a week for 48 minutes - 96 minutes a week.
Luke & his staff get to see them practice 3 hours a day, every day. And see them when they are working out before and after practice too.
Generally, I'm prepared to give Luke a large share of benefit of the doubt that he knows more then any of us do... |
Look man. I listen to GT's videos. I think I know more than my fair share
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | His rotations are terrible. I'm at a loss of words. |
To be honest, this is what the Warriors fans were unhappy about when Luke takes over as interim head coach. His rotations are weird.
Regardless, lets see how he does in the real season. Preseason rotations are nothing since some of the players won't be in the team anymore. |
Wasn't Kerr the one who brought Ezeli in the 4th Q of Game 7, who promptly allowed LeBron to tie the game?
It's... almost like it's not immediately obvious to fans why coaches do their rotations, and that judging the success of coaching based on results is a fool's errand (also known as "hindsight bias") |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's way too early to be judging Luke's rotation It was the freaking preseason
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Luke also mentioned much earlier in the preseason that he's going to continue working on the rotation even if it bleeds into the regular season. He's really taking his time, and also doesn't want to stop investing in Randle as a starter right off the bat. We have a coach interested in DEVELOPMENT finally, please, let him do his thing for a while. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:04 am Post subject: |
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LUKE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP PLAYING LOU
I feel he's only doing it because their names are similar
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Luke Walton still isn’t sure what the Lakers’ best starting lineup is: http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2016/10/22/13365208/la-lakers-luke-walton-starting-lineup-dangelo-russell-jordan-clarkson
| Quote: | | “We’ve got to figure something out with the starting group still. Until we get that under control, those lineups are probably going to change,” Walton said. “We can’t afford to go down by the six-minute timeout each time we step on the floor.” |
If Luke continues these abysmal rotations, a glimpse of how bad it will be during the regular season:
| Quote: | | Net Rating isn’t a perfect stat, but the majority of the starters being outscored by double-digits per 100 possessions is not a super positive sign, even in the preseason. |
Young should be the only ball-stopper on the team:
| Quote: | | Sweet Lou’s foul-drawing brand of efficient gunning is useful in a certain context, but bigger guards can either shoot over him or post him to death. On the other end, he’s shown a far bigger predilection for ball-stopping than Young has thus far (again, insane as that sounds). |
My solution:
1) Don't play Lou... like... ever. You're waving the white flag on defense when he plays. Even Coach Bud favored rookies over him.
2) Start Young at the 2, but give the majority of the minutes to BI/Clarkson/AB. If Young plays out of control like he did last game, let him know it's unacceptable.
3) Start Nance at the 4. Let Randle demonstrate why he deserves to start because he clearly hasn't done that all of preseason. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Posts: 17668
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
More like if he wants to get killed on the rebounds.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
More like if he wants to get killed on the rebounds. |
We're already getting killed on the rebounds with Randle starting but at least with Nance starting the defense and spacing will be better. |
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
More like if he wants to get killed on the rebounds. |
yeah that lineup is gonna get outrebounded like crazy
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Megaton
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Saw the presser. Said they can't afford to go down by the 6 minute mark each time they step on the floor. He was pretty bummed out about the starting unit. Was pretty confident about the bench however. |
Except for Russell the bench has more talent and is the better team that's why. |
Mozgov vs Black
Randle vs Nance
Deng vs Ingram
Lou vs JC/Young
DLO vs Calderon/Marcelo
Outside of the PG position, there hasn't been much separation in play between them |
The starters are giving up too many points in the first quarter, and Luke hinted that changes will be made. |
While it remains to be seen if he makes changes and what they'll be, it sure is nice to have a coach who recognizes "hey, this isn't working" and looks to change it when it becomes apparent, rather than running into the same brick wall over and over and over again. |
Like the Ryan Kelly and Brandon Bass front court of doom. 
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BigGameHames
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Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | His rotations are terrible. I'm at a loss of words. |
To be honest, this is what the Warriors fans were unhappy about when Luke takes over as interim head coach. His rotations are weird.
Regardless, lets see how he does in the real season. Preseason rotations are nothing since some of the players won't be in the team anymore. |
The Warriors were at their best when Luke was in charge so if there was fans complaining, they shouldn't have been.
Dave expected JC to be treated as the best player. Since that isn't happening he is whining about anything he can think of. It's the preseason, let's not worry about the rotations until we play games that actually count. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
I guess you somehow missed his comments regarding winning. He is interested in developing the players that will lead this team going forward.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Also, another theory about why the starting lineup isn't working is that Luke kept changing it around game-to-game without letting them really play themselves into being more comfortable. But it's clear as day the construct isn't working either way, so, eh.
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
I guess you somehow missed his comments regarding winning. He is interested in developing the players that will lead this team going forward. |
Yep. As I've said, personally I'd prefer Nance to start any day of the week. But Luke is stressing development and prioritizing Randle is high on his list. We got our development coach, so I can't argue here. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:26 am Post subject: |
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The main reason the starting lineup isn't dominating is because they aren't nearly as good as most other team's starting lineups.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | Also, another theory about why the starting lineup isn't working is that Luke kept changing it around game-to-game without letting them really play themselves into being more comfortable. But it's clear as day the construct isn't working either way, so, eh.
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Dlo
Jc
Deng
Nanca
Moz
IMO this has to be our starting 5. Does Luke have strength to bring jr off bench |
If he wants to win he's going to have to. |
I guess you somehow missed his comments regarding winning. He is interested in developing the players that will lead this team going forward. |
Yep. As I've said, personally I'd prefer Nance to start any day of the week. But Luke is stressing development and prioritizing Randle is high on his list. We got our development coach, so I can't argue here. |
Randle can still be developed while coming off of the bench though. I'd argue that two of the guys who are most likely to take his spot (Nance, Ingram) need development too.
Your starting lineup plays together a lot more than any other unit does, so it's really important that those 5 guys mesh together. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The main reason the starting lineup isn't dominating is because they aren't nearly as good as most other team's starting lineups. |
I'd settle for not being dominated rather than dominating. Sure, they won't be even an average starting lineup no matter which way you slice it, but I feel pretty confident that there's a combination that wouldn't consistently get outscored by 10+ points per 100 possessions. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The main reason the starting lineup isn't dominating is because they aren't nearly as good as most other team's starting lineups. |
I'd settle for not being dominated rather than dominating. Sure, they won't be even an average starting lineup no matter which way you slice it, but I feel pretty confident that there's a combination that wouldn't consistently get outscored by 10+ points per 100 possessions. |
Hopefully with more development that would be the case, but it will take time.
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lukewaltonsdad
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: |
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From the post-game last night, it seems as if Walton is going to still be mixing and matching parts in the regular season to see what works best.
We could see changes throughout the season in both the starting unit and bench units until Luke finds out what is working best, IMO. |
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