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tox
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 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | I don't really know where else to put this, but GT vs Matt Moore on Twitter today...
[slow clap] |
What are they arguing about? |
He talks about how Lakers' Net Rating isn't great and their record is overachieving.
GT points out they were much more favorably rated before Russell went down (worst Net Rating in the league since his injury).
And the guy responds "Whatever makes you feel better."
That's when I stopped reading. Kudos to GT for having the poise to apparently keep continuing. |
He's often unnecessarily sassy, but his tone eventually changed after being presented with a multitude of facts. |
Yeah, I just went through the entire exchange. Good on him for being open to (somewhat) changing his opinion. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | SoCaLjAy wrote: | | Judah wrote: | I don't see how it'd be an assumption to think that this early success is directly because of Luke. That's not an assumption. It's something as plain as day for anyone who tuned in last year. In the eyes of the media, the reason they're so much better is because Kobe is gone, which is absurd to me. Kobe being gone is relevant to them playing better, sure, but their struggles last season were mostly because they didn't have a coach. They had a prideful, arrogant, Pat Riley wannabe that not only perceived developing the young players as some chore, but was also clueless on how to do it. The DA report during a TNT game last year confirmed what many of us already believed about Russell's development: he had zero guidance. He was being left to "figure out" how to be an NBA point guard on his own, rather than being taught.
What's more, last year's coach used rotation minutes as a sword he could yield to hold players hostage if he became unhappy, which usually leads to guys playing with fear, because they know if they make a mistake they'll get yanked. Luke very seldom does that. Russell has some pretty awful turnovers at times that lead to fast breaks for the other team, forcing Luke to call timeouts. But 99% of the time he leaves Russell out there even after those bad plays. He doesn't put him on the bench. That sort of thing makes all the difference in the world because he's still learning. Unlike last year's coach, Luke is allowing him to play through his mistakes, and it's paying dividends despite the fact that he's averaging less minutes than last year. Last year's coach was incapable of grasping any of these things.
But let's just make a list of what Luke has been able to accomplish so far:
1) Rejuvenated Nick Young by empowering him positively, which has transformed him into a legit 3 and D player.
2) Molding JR into a more complete player, especially as a playmaker. Last year he had a one track mind of getting his own, this year he's looking to set guys up. He's also playing much more under control and showing flashes of intriguing defensive potential.
3) Totally revamped the offense, turning them into one of the best offensive teams in the league so far, whereas last year they were arguably the worst.
4) Established a culture that empowers ALL of his players, not just vets/the players he'd want in his foxhole. Everyone is equal and accountable.
5) Masterminded the bench mob in such a way that they now have the best bench in the league by a wide margin.
6) Cultivated Ingram's versatility, which will make him an even more complete player down the line.
7) Empowered Lou as both a lethal scorer and playmaker; so much so that Calderon and Huertas have only played sparingly when everyone is healthy.
8) Done a terrific job at making in-game adjustments, rather than robotic, predetermined rotations/decisions like last year's coach.
9) Molding Russell into the dynamic point guard that we all knew he'd be.
10) Instilled a "never quit" mentality within the team, which is why they've only had a few blowouts even with key players injured.
11) And though they've mostly struggled on defense, they're still much better at it this year than they were last year. They've had a few really nice games where they showed potential.
A good majority of their wins have been against teams that they aren't "supposed" to beat, according to the experts. You don't accomplish all of this by simply "getting out of the way." Are there still important improvements that need to be made? Of course. There's no question about that. But what we can't afford to do is lose perspective and pretend that improvement is easy. This team is so much farther along than most expected. I was hoping they'd at least grow into a .500 team by next season, but they're already there from the very beginning, even despite the fact that they've had one of the toughest schedules so far.
And last, but not least, the guy who's oversaw all of this is a mere rookie as a head coach. Only an ungrateful moron of a fan (of which we have a few in this forum) wouldn't be absolutely ecstatic right now about the direction of the team under his guidance. That's an outrageously long list of things to accomplish so early in the season, especially for a rookie coach. He's proving that the "37-4" wasn't incidental with him just being there as a substitute teacher. He left his fingerprints at the scene of the crime. |
Great post, I agree on all counts with your perspective!  |
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Vin
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Joined: 03 Jan 2013
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Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | Nance got hurt ? |
Right knee contusion. He's questionable for tonight. Ain't no thang. |
I quit in garbage time with like 2 minutes left. Is it when he got hurt ? |
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Megaton
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Luke has to get through to players like a Clarkson that he can't play like he did tonight. It wasn't that the shots didn't go in, they were forced, stupid shots and played so selfish that would make even Kobe on his worst day blush.
I hope to Christ it's not Luke's idea for Clarkson to just jack up every shot every time he holds the ball. Clarkson really is better than that, I've seen it in his rookie year when he really did play and act like a playmaker. But somehow, someway, it's like he pulled a Roy Hibbert and forgot what basketball was.
Wake him up Luke. That's on you too.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if Luke makes it a priority for his players to freeze Ingram out, because that's what it feels like right now. How does the #2 pick shoot just 5 shots in a full 40 minutes of play? Even though Ingram was 1-1 in the first half, he was getting to the line fairly easily. What happens then? Randle shoots a three point shot out of nowhere. That's right, a guy who has made 2 threes all season takes that kind of shot when Ingram has mismatches on him all night. There is no offensive strategy in regards to the personnel out there. Right now, the offense is just give the ball to Lou Williams or Jordan Clarkson and let them chuck it up. This is getting very close to Byron-ball.
Then there's the problem with Clarkson having no leash whatsoever. He's free to shoot whenever, however, but that's for another topic.
This is one game where David Fizdale outcoached Luke in every aspect of the game, despite the Grizzles missing half of their roster tonight. I was thoroughly wrong about Luke. He has ways to go.
Yes, I'm angry but I'll get over it. This was probably the most frustrating loss of the season for me. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | I wonder if Luke makes it a priority for his players to freeze Ingram out, because that's what it feels like right now.
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Have you listened to Luke talk about Brandon Ingram? His favorite players, if he has favorites, sound like they're Ingram and Randle. Luke is a preacher of ball movement and taking open shots. That is a very Mark Jackson thing you just suggested Luke would do. He's honest, not sneaky like that. Hell, have you listened to Luke in an interview at all?
But I was frustrated with Ingram's shot attempts this game too. He was very aggressive in the first half. And as MJST reminded me in the game thread, he passed up a bunch of looks in the second half. I agree that it was kind of on him. Maybe his TOs got to him.
The offensive gameplan turned to ISO-ball that hinged a lot of Lou Will bailing out the team, because that's what pushed them at times in the first half. They went away from what won them games previously. That's why a lot of guys looked frustrated tonight when they didn't know how to get back into the game.
Steering the game away from ISO-ball - now that's something I'm criticizing Luke for tonight. I feel like he could have gotten through to his guys about playing properly.
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Last edited by justsomelakerfan on Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scoffs
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke, we're short handed. It's time to unleash the Zubac. Do it. |
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anpherknee
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Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 16933
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | I wonder if Luke makes it a priority for his players to freeze Ingram out, because that's what it feels like right now. How does the #2 pick shoot just 5 shots in a full 40 minutes of play? Even though Ingram was 1-1 in the first half, he was getting to the line fairly easily. What happens then? Randle shoots a three point shot out of nowhere. That's right, a guy who has made 2 threes all season takes that kind of shot when Ingram has mismatches on him all night. There is no offensive strategy in regards to the personnel out there. Right now, the offense is just give the ball to Lou Williams or Jordan Clarkson and let them chuck it up. This is getting very close to Byron-ball.
Then there's the problem with Clarkson having no leash whatsoever. He's free to shoot whenever, however, but that's for another topic.
This is one game where David Fizdale outcoached Luke in every aspect of the game, despite the Grizzles missing half of their roster tonight. I was thoroughly wrong about Luke. He has ways to go.
Yes, I'm angry but I'll get over it. This was probably the most frustrating loss of the season for me. |
are you saying that randle shot that 3 because ingram didnt touch the ball on that possession or are you saying that ingram passed it to randle because he wasn't in rhythm? |
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dood23
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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this not healthy fam
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anpherknee
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| dood23 wrote: | | this not healthy fam |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| anpherknee wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | I wonder if Luke makes it a priority for his players to freeze Ingram out, because that's what it feels like right now. How does the #2 pick shoot just 5 shots in a full 40 minutes of play? Even though Ingram was 1-1 in the first half, he was getting to the line fairly easily. What happens then? Randle shoots a three point shot out of nowhere. That's right, a guy who has made 2 threes all season takes that kind of shot when Ingram has mismatches on him all night. There is no offensive strategy in regards to the personnel out there. Right now, the offense is just give the ball to Lou Williams or Jordan Clarkson and let them chuck it up. This is getting very close to Byron-ball.
Then there's the problem with Clarkson having no leash whatsoever. He's free to shoot whenever, however, but that's for another topic.
This is one game where David Fizdale outcoached Luke in every aspect of the game, despite the Grizzles missing half of their roster tonight. I was thoroughly wrong about Luke. He has ways to go.
Yes, I'm angry but I'll get over it. This was probably the most frustrating loss of the season for me. |
are you saying that randle shot that 3 because ingram didnt touch the ball on that possession or are you saying that ingram passed it to randle because he wasn't in rhythm? |
I don't know. My head is spinning like crazy. I'll get back to you. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| anpherknee wrote: | | dood23 wrote: | | this not healthy fam |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Luke has coached a really fiery team for better or worse. Luke sets the tone, and I like it. He's always barking at the refs, at his staff, at his players. I read that article written by that comedian who reported on every team bench in the league, and he commented that Luke was always cussing and the Lakers' players were always trash talking and yelling at the other team.
So they take a lot of pride in what they do. But they'll collapse, too. Some of Clarkson and Randle's ego that came out today feels like it's a part of it. I haven't seen those guys so mad in a game before.
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kobe_4_mvp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| link to article? |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | I wonder if Luke makes it a priority for his players to freeze Ingram out, because that's what it feels like right now.
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Have you listened to Luke talk about Brandon Ingram? His favorite players, if he has favorites, sound like they're Ingram and Randle. Luke is a preacher of ball movement and taking open shots. That is a very Mark Jackson thing you just suggested Luke would do. He's honest, not sneaky like that. Hell, have you listened to Luke in an interview at all?
But I was frustrated with Ingram's shot attempts this game too. He was very aggressive in the first half. And as MJST reminded me in the game thread, he passed up a bunch of looks in the second half. I agree that it was kind of on him. Maybe his TOs got to him.
The offensive gameplan turned to ISO-ball that hinged a lot of Lou Will bailing out the team, because that's what pushed them at times in the first half. They went away from what won them games previously. That's why a lot of guys looked frustrated tonight when they didn't know how to get back into the game.
Steering the game away from ISO-ball - now that's something I'm criticizing Luke for tonight. I feel like he could have gotten through to his guys about playing properly. |
That's true. Ingram is one of Luke's favorite players. That he trusts Ingram to finish ballgames should tell you that much. But, Ingram being a rookie means a lot of plays likely won't be called for him. This is because Luke wants to "win" ballgames... only that iso-ball isn't exactly a winning strategy. Exploiting mismatches is a winning strategy, and I saw very little of it in both of these games. This is the first game where Ingram was getting the calls. He shot 6 freethrows in the span of 2 minutes. I thought going away from that compromised Ingram's game. |
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augus7
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justsomelakerfan
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kobe_4_mvp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks  |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | I wonder if Luke makes it a priority for his players to freeze Ingram out, because that's what it feels like right now.
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Have you listened to Luke talk about Brandon Ingram? His favorite players, if he has favorites, sound like they're Ingram and Randle. Luke is a preacher of ball movement and taking open shots. That is a very Mark Jackson thing you just suggested Luke would do. He's honest, not sneaky like that. Hell, have you listened to Luke in an interview at all?
But I was frustrated with Ingram's shot attempts this game too. He was very aggressive in the first half. And as MJST reminded me in the game thread, he passed up a bunch of looks in the second half. I agree that it was kind of on him. Maybe his TOs got to him.
The offensive gameplan turned to ISO-ball that hinged a lot of Lou Will bailing out the team, because that's what pushed them at times in the first half. They went away from what won them games previously. That's why a lot of guys looked frustrated tonight when they didn't know how to get back into the game.
Steering the game away from ISO-ball - now that's something I'm criticizing Luke for tonight. I feel like he could have gotten through to his guys about playing properly. |
That's true. Ingram is one of Luke's favorite players. That he trusts Ingram to finish ballgames should tell you that much. But, Ingram being a rookie means a lot of plays likely won't be called for him. This is because Luke wants to "win" ballgames... only that iso-ball isn't exactly a winning strategy. Exploiting mismatches is a winning strategy, and I saw very little of it in both of these games. This is the first game where Ingram was getting the calls. He shot 6 freethrows in the span of 2 minutes. I thought going away from that compromised Ingram's game. |
It looked more like Lou and JC looking for their own shots rather than Luke calling shots not for BI. But it's also possible Luke wants more proven shot-makers to have plays drawn up for them in the second half when the game got close. It could be both. But I can guarantee it wasn't anything "malicious" or that he doesn't trust Ingram to win a game. He's still a big presence on the team for setting up plays and impacting defensively.
I would have liked to see the team ride the hot hand instead of forcing JC's offensive game tonight. That doesn't mean sit JC, but set him up as a playmaker and defender and pass to BI (or until there's an open shot created)
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anpherknee
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that our staff is losing perspective on is the fact that Lou Williams is a luxury in this league. Normally he's not your best player, and so he gets to come off the bench and provide you with a well balanced team. That's a luxury.
But if he's your Michael Jordan, like he is on our team. What sense does it make for MJ to sit there in the 3rd while the lead is getting wiped? Likewise, it wouldn't make sense for MJ to sit for over 8 minutes in the 3rd when the team is down a bundle like yesterday in Toronto. You got no D'LO, no Nick Young, yet you continue to coach like Lou is still a luxury. In these times, he's a NECESSITY, he's your MJ. He needs to start, or he needs to come off the bench much quicker. He keeps sitting over 8 minutes these past 3rd quarters and it's driving me insane.
Sure he played 32 minutes today. Which is an improvement, but it's still 5 less minutes than what he should have played. Especially how hot he was, and he cooled down. Maybe from riding the pine a bit too long. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| And the thing is our reporters have asked him about his play this year, and what is he doing that's so effective this year, and Lou's answer was, "I just want to stay on the floor." He's doing things to stay on the floor! The dude wants the minutes. You are depleted. He's your MJ! He's not a 6th man. You're not deep right now, you don't have that luxury. They need to grasp this. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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^ Fair point.
But Luke has been letting Lou sit most of the 3rd and playing almost all of the 4th for a past few games. I dont think that will change. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | ^ Fair point.
But Luke has been letting Lou sit most of the 3rd and playing almost all of the 4th for a past few games. I dont think that will change. |
And it's stupid. It's systematic for the sake of being systematic. I thought we were over that with Byron. We could have step on their throats today in the 3rd, but we went to our 4th string PG! Because the book says Lou is the 6th man. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | And the thing is our reporters have asked him about his play this year, and what is he doing that's so effective this year, and Lou's answer was, "I just want to stay on the floor." He's doing things to stay on the floor! The dude wants the minutes. You are depleted. He's your MJ! He's not a 6th man. You're not deep right now, you don't have that luxury. They need to grasp this. |
Daniels had a career night against Lou or there's tonight. Lou is good offensively but gives there's same on defensive end |
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