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DoubleClutch
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
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 Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Goldenwest wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
His best defensive lineups he wasn't allowed to play. Is it a surprise they're terrible on defense? I get the criticism of him as well, but a lot of it is out of his control. The team is tanking. The players know it and Luke can't play his best lineups.
Which isn't to say he's immune from criticism or anything like that. I'll be interested in how they look Year 2, without excuse to tank (please). And hopefully with a new defensive coordinator. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but the pick is unprotected next year. So tanking should not be on the agenda. (The Nash trade; the gift that keeps on giving- to someone else) |
To be fair, those draft picks we gave out haven't really hurt us much. At least not yet.
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Goldenwest wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
His best defensive lineups he wasn't allowed to play. Is it a surprise they're terrible on defense? I get the criticism of him as well, but a lot of it is out of his control. The team is tanking. The players know it and Luke can't play his best lineups.
Which isn't to say he's immune from criticism or anything like that. I'll be interested in how they look Year 2, without excuse to tank (please). And hopefully with a new defensive coordinator. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but the pick is unprotected next year. So tanking should not be on the agenda. (The Nash trade; the gift that keeps on giving- to someone else) |
Yes, but that assumes we retain the pick this year  |
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Megaton
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25648
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Goldenwest wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
His best defensive lineups he wasn't allowed to play. Is it a surprise they're terrible on defense? I get the criticism of him as well, but a lot of it is out of his control. The team is tanking. The players know it and Luke can't play his best lineups.
Which isn't to say he's immune from criticism or anything like that. I'll be interested in how they look Year 2, without excuse to tank (please). And hopefully with a new defensive coordinator. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but the pick is unprotected next year. So tanking should not be on the agenda. (The Nash trade; the gift that keeps on giving- to someone else) |
Yes, but that assumes we retain the pick this year |
We already have the 1st pick this year. It'll be official on May 16th.
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HumanVictoryCigar
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 7601
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: |
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no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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Daiei
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2016
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone watch the statue unveiling? I think Luke got some heavy boos when he was introduced. I was in the work lunch room though so I couldn't hear clearly. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Daiei wrote: | | Anyone watch the statue unveiling? I think Luke got some heavy boos when he was introduced. I was in the work lunch room though so I couldn't hear clearly. |
I didn't watch but I bet those were "Luke" chants |
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Chase.button07
Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 4996
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Daiei wrote: | | Anyone watch the statue unveiling? I think Luke got some heavy boos when he was introduced. I was in the work lunch room though so I couldn't hear clearly. |
haha i heard that. surprising |
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Daiei
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2016
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Daiei wrote: | | Anyone watch the statue unveiling? I think Luke got some heavy boos when he was introduced. I was in the work lunch room though so I couldn't hear clearly. |
I didn't watch but I bet those were "Luke" chants |
Didn't think about that... makes sense.
Really think they were boos though. He had a surprise look on his face too. |
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kobe_luver
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Daiei wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Daiei wrote: | | Anyone watch the statue unveiling? I think Luke got some heavy boos when he was introduced. I was in the work lunch room though so I couldn't hear clearly. |
I didn't watch but I bet those were "Luke" chants |
Didn't think about that... makes sense.
Really think they were boos though. He had a surprise look on his face too. |
No way. They were "Luuuuuke" chants....same as when he played for us. |
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Jakanzi
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jan 2017
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
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GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
I wouldn't like it if I were Ingram either. Rookie mistake by Luke. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
It's a move you make when you're more worried about being liked than respected because you don't have to direct discipline toward anyone in particular.
This could be Luke's downfall as a coach. I think there are occasions when this is a good tactic. But why would you run through a wall for someone who will consistently punish you for the actions of another? |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
It's a move you make when you're more worried about being liked than respected because you don't have to direct discipline toward anyone in particular.
This could be Luke's downfall as a coach. I think there are occasions when this is a good tactic. But why would you run through a wall for someone who will consistently punish you for the actions of another? |
At least he's consistent. It's his style; he will sink or swim with it. I have no problem with it at all. |
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LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke hasn't been that great and his assistants are even worse. Not really sure what any of them add. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
It's a move you make when you're more worried about being liked than respected because you don't have to direct discipline toward anyone in particular.
This could be Luke's downfall as a coach. I think there are occasions when this is a good tactic. But why would you run through a wall for someone who will consistently punish you for the actions of another? |
At least he's consistent. It's his style; he will sink or swim with it. I have no problem with it at all. |
No one has a problem with it until they are the one being punished for something someone else did. Would.you be ok being suspended from LG because of someone else's trolling? Me neither. |
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supermegamen
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 962
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
It's a move you make when you're more worried about being liked than respected because you don't have to direct discipline toward anyone in particular.
This could be Luke's downfall as a coach. I think there are occasions when this is a good tactic. But why would you run through a wall for someone who will consistently punish you for the actions of another? |
At least he's consistent. It's his style; he will sink or swim with it. I have no problem with it at all. |
No one has a problem with it until they are the one being punished for something someone else did. Would.you be ok being suspended from LG because of someone else's trolling? Me neither. |
i think there's the element of being part of a team some of you are missing. completely agree with Luke here on if you are part of a team, you'll have to take responsibility not only for your own actions but for those of your team also. it's your responsibility to hold everyone accountable to maximize the success of the team and therefore your own success as well. if guys around you and are not doing what they're supposed to do, you have to speak up and get their head straight or you will fail as well. I think this is a very important lesson not only on leadership but also on teamwork and demeanor. very glad Luke is trying to make everyone playing the right way by sticking to some great principles here.
i know Ingram is still pretty young and it's unfortunate he's punished for the things the older guys (who should be the real leaders) are not doing, but it's a great way of teaching everyone how to play the right way. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| supermegamen wrote: | i think there's the element of being part of a team some of you are missing. completely agree with Luke here on if you are part of a team, you'll have to take responsibility not only for your own actions but for those of your team also. it's your responsibility to hold everyone accountable to maximize the success of the team and therefore your own success as well. if guys around you and are not doing what they're supposed to do, you have to speak up and get their head straight or you will fail as well. I think this is a very important lesson not only on leadership but also on teamwork and demeanor. very glad Luke is trying to make everyone playing the right way by sticking to some great principles here.
i know Ingram is still pretty young and it's unfortunate he's punished for the things the older guys (who should be the real leaders) are not doing, but it's a great way of teaching everyone how to play the right way. |
As I said, the idea sounds great in theory, and it sounds good when you're not the party being punished for someone else's actions.
Do you think society would be better off if everyone were incarcerated for the actions of a single person?
Do you think the LG community would be improved if they suspended the entire forum any time a single member failed to play nicely?
Would you be more motivated to work hard if you were fired when a co-worker couldn't show up to work on time?
Wouldn't it be awesome if you couldn't secure a mortgage or a car loan because the guy who applied right before you had bad credit?
Collective punishment is the equivalent of the double technical. It's lame, and it is weak. It's so funny to me that people would be on board with this approach. Whatever happened to the notion of not judging the many by the actions of the few? |
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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12717
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| supermegamen wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
It's a move you make when you're more worried about being liked than respected because you don't have to direct discipline toward anyone in particular.
This could be Luke's downfall as a coach. I think there are occasions when this is a good tactic. But why would you run through a wall for someone who will consistently punish you for the actions of another? |
At least he's consistent. It's his style; he will sink or swim with it. I have no problem with it at all. |
No one has a problem with it until they are the one being punished for something someone else did. Would.you be ok being suspended from LG because of someone else's trolling? Me neither. |
i think there's the element of being part of a team some of you are missing. completely agree with Luke here on if you are part of a team, you'll have to take responsibility not only for your own actions but for those of your team also. it's your responsibility to hold everyone accountable to maximize the success of the team and therefore your own success as well. if guys around you and are not doing what they're supposed to do, you have to speak up and get their head straight or you will fail as well. I think this is a very important lesson not only on leadership but also on teamwork and demeanor. very glad Luke is trying to make everyone playing the right way by sticking to some great principles here.
i know Ingram is still pretty young and it's unfortunate he's punished for the things the older guys (who should be the real leaders) are not doing, but it's a great way of teaching everyone how to play the right way. |
Came here to type this. Well said. The coaches want to see if Ingram has that leadership in his DNA. Just like when they put the ball in his hands and made him PG so he'd be more engaged, now they're forcing him to step into that leadership role when the team is struggling. It's part of the grooming process.
I've been saying for the last few months that I see Ingram being a do-it-all super glue guy who makes the entire team play better even when he's not putting up big stats. He naturally has that potential in his game but they need him to step out of his shell and see if he can put the team on his back when they need him, both vocally and with his play. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
It's a move you make when you're more worried about being liked than respected because you don't have to direct discipline toward anyone in particular.
This could be Luke's downfall as a coach. I think there are occasions when this is a good tactic. But why would you run through a wall for someone who will consistently punish you for the actions of another? |
No it has nothing to do with wanting to be liked or respected. It's a tactic many coaches use to force the players to hold each other accountable. It's similar to a coach making his whole team run in practice when one player is acting up. You may disagree with the tactic but it has nothing to do with him trying to be liked. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | supermegamen wrote: | i think there's the element of being part of a team some of you are missing. completely agree with Luke here on if you are part of a team, you'll have to take responsibility not only for your own actions but for those of your team also. it's your responsibility to hold everyone accountable to maximize the success of the team and therefore your own success as well. if guys around you and are not doing what they're supposed to do, you have to speak up and get their head straight or you will fail as well. I think this is a very important lesson not only on leadership but also on teamwork and demeanor. very glad Luke is trying to make everyone playing the right way by sticking to some great principles here.
i know Ingram is still pretty young and it's unfortunate he's punished for the things the older guys (who should be the real leaders) are not doing, but it's a great way of teaching everyone how to play the right way. |
As I said, the idea sounds great in theory, and it sounds good when you're not the party being punished for someone else's actions.
Do you think society would be better off if everyone were incarcerated for the actions of a single person?
Do you think the LG community would be improved if they suspended the entire forum any time a single member failed to play nicely?
Would you be more motivated to work hard if you were fired when a co-worker couldn't show up to work on time?
Wouldn't it be awesome if you couldn't secure a mortgage or a car loan because the guy who applied right before you had bad credit?
Collective punishment is the equivalent of the double technical. It's lame, and it is weak. It's so funny to me that people would be on board with this approach. Whatever happened to the notion of not judging the many by the actions of the few? |
As somebody who played and currently coaches I can speak from experience and say that collective punishment can be very effective both in theory and practice. The leaders of the team make themselves known, the guys who are just good teammates fall in line, and the kids with bad attitudes stick out like a sore thumb because they would rather whine about being punished for somebody else's actions than work hard and do better.
Is it effective with adults in the NBA is a different question but the Lakers are so young that I think it's the correct way for Luke to go about punishing players. Hopefully this leads to Ingram getting on the other guys when they don't play with the appropriate focus and energy. |
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GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | supermegamen wrote: | i think there's the element of being part of a team some of you are missing. completely agree with Luke here on if you are part of a team, you'll have to take responsibility not only for your own actions but for those of your team also. it's your responsibility to hold everyone accountable to maximize the success of the team and therefore your own success as well. if guys around you and are not doing what they're supposed to do, you have to speak up and get their head straight or you will fail as well. I think this is a very important lesson not only on leadership but also on teamwork and demeanor. very glad Luke is trying to make everyone playing the right way by sticking to some great principles here.
i know Ingram is still pretty young and it's unfortunate he's punished for the things the older guys (who should be the real leaders) are not doing, but it's a great way of teaching everyone how to play the right way. |
As I said, the idea sounds great in theory, and it sounds good when you're not the party being punished for someone else's actions.
Do you think society would be better off if everyone were incarcerated for the actions of a single person?
Do you think the LG community would be improved if they suspended the entire forum any time a single member failed to play nicely?
Would you be more motivated to work hard if you were fired when a co-worker couldn't show up to work on time?
Wouldn't it be awesome if you couldn't secure a mortgage or a car loan because the guy who applied right before you had bad credit?
Collective punishment is the equivalent of the double technical. It's lame, and it is weak. It's so funny to me that people would be on board with this approach. Whatever happened to the notion of not judging the many by the actions of the few? |
As somebody who played and currently coaches I can speak from experience and say that collective punishment can be very effective both in theory and practice. The leaders of the team make themselves known, the guys who are just good teammates fall in line, and the kids with bad attitudes stick out like a sore thumb because they would rather whine about being punished for somebody else's actions than work hard and do better.
Is it effective with adults in the NBA is a different question but the Lakers are so young that I think it's the correct way for Luke to go about punishing players. Hopefully this leads to Ingram getting on the other guys when they don't play with the appropriate focus and energy. |
What impact would working harder/doing better have if they're just gonna get punished for someone else's actions regardless? |
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Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | HumanVictoryCigar wrote: | no mention of this?
(Walton)
"He became so disgusted with the Lakers’ 30-point halftime deficit to the Clippers on Tuesday that he informed his starters they would begin the second half on the bench. Walton then turned to rookie forward Brandon Ingram.
“It (stinks) for you that you have to sit out, too,” Walton said. “You’re out there playing your tail off.”
Ingram had just 10 points on 5-of-8 shooting in 21 minutes, leaving Lakers guard D’Angelo Russell to openly question Walton’s tactic. As Russell said, “I don’t think he deserved that.”
Before finishing with a team-leading 21 points and five rebounds while shooting 8 for 14 from the field against the Clippers, Walton found the normally quiet Ingram just as incredulous.
“He looked mad, but he should’ve been mad,” Walton said. “I think he understood it.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/walton-747310-lakers-ingram.html |
So Luke has done this sub-out-all-the-starters thing a couple times now and I get that it feels gimmicky but I think he does it partly because he generally doesn't want to publicly single specific players out. Makes me wonder all the more about the D'Lo benching. |
Yeah, it's a weak move. I know that I wouldn't respect it if I were in Ingram's shoes. |
Respectfully disagree. At some point it's on the players to hold each other accountable. If Luke is using live-or-die as a unit, it's up to the players to push each other. Thinking the accountability issues can be solved by a coach is unrealistic. I get the impression the guys are too interested in being buddies and living large.
As leaders everyone on the team has fallen short of this. Russell was given a platform to be the guy and decided not to embrace it, pouting on the floor on multiple occasions. You see how that has been received by his employers in multiple ways. Luke has worked on Randle as a leader but that's a work in progress subject to inconsistency. Now that there's a little more solid ground under his feet, Luke is starting to test Ingram.
Maybe this is all just a function of youth, tanking and the entitled AAU system. it's a talent driven league so you don't bail on guys because things are messy. But it doesn't get cleaned up by coddling them either.
_________________
Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | supermegamen wrote: | i think there's the element of being part of a team some of you are missing. completely agree with Luke here on if you are part of a team, you'll have to take responsibility not only for your own actions but for those of your team also. it's your responsibility to hold everyone accountable to maximize the success of the team and therefore your own success as well. if guys around you and are not doing what they're supposed to do, you have to speak up and get their head straight or you will fail as well. I think this is a very important lesson not only on leadership but also on teamwork and demeanor. very glad Luke is trying to make everyone playing the right way by sticking to some great principles here.
i know Ingram is still pretty young and it's unfortunate he's punished for the things the older guys (who should be the real leaders) are not doing, but it's a great way of teaching everyone how to play the right way. |
As I said, the idea sounds great in theory, and it sounds good when you're not the party being punished for someone else's actions.
Do you think society would be better off if everyone were incarcerated for the actions of a single person?
Do you think the LG community would be improved if they suspended the entire forum any time a single member failed to play nicely?
Would you be more motivated to work hard if you were fired when a co-worker couldn't show up to work on time?
Wouldn't it be awesome if you couldn't secure a mortgage or a car loan because the guy who applied right before you had bad credit?
Collective punishment is the equivalent of the double technical. It's lame, and it is weak. It's so funny to me that people would be on board with this approach. Whatever happened to the notion of not judging the many by the actions of the few? |
As somebody who played and currently coaches I can speak from experience and say that collective punishment can be very effective both in theory and practice. The leaders of the team make themselves known, the guys who are just good teammates fall in line, and the kids with bad attitudes stick out like a sore thumb because they would rather whine about being punished for somebody else's actions than work hard and do better.
Is it effective with adults in the NBA is a different question but the Lakers are so young that I think it's the correct way for Luke to go about punishing players. Hopefully this leads to Ingram getting on the other guys when they don't play with the appropriate focus and energy. |
What impact would working harder/doing better have if they're just gonna get punished for someone else's actions regardless? |
You can reward them with more playing time, shots etc. than the other players who are the reasons for the punishments. The initial punishment of everybody sends a message to the team about accountability and reminds them that you win and lose as a team. But after that the player who was the reason for the punishment can receive further punishment.
Example is you bench the starting lineup for the beginning of the second half but once they come back in, the players who weren't the reason for the punishment receive more PT than the ones who were. |
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