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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
danzag wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too




As much as I disagreed with the DLo trade initially there were definitely things behind the scenes that forced it. I also don't think he would have wanted to play second fiddle to Lonzo.

With that said,

I actually think Lonzo/KCP/Ingram is equally exciting.

KCP like Lopez isnt in our long term plans. KCP could have also possibly been obtainable even with DLO.

DLO not wanting to play 2nd fiddle? Dlo would have loved playing with Ball and having all that pressure taking off. Would have averaged close to 20 easy.

Ball/DLO/Ingram would have been a stud heavy foundation to grow on with the change to get to maxes in 2018.


The same DLo that liked a tweet saying the Lakers would be stupid to draft Ball?


Last edited by Ziggy on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
danzag wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too




As much as I disagreed with the DLo trade initially there were definitely things behind the scenes that forced it. I also don't think he would have wanted to play second fiddle to Lonzo.

With that said,

I actually think Lonzo/KCP/Ingram is equally exciting.

KCP like Lopez isnt in our long term plans. KCP could have also possibly been obtainable even with DLO.

DLO not wanting to play 2nd fiddle? Dlo would have loved playing with Ball and having all that pressure taking off. Would have averaged close to 20 easy.

Ball/DLO/Ingram would have been a stud heavy foundation to grow on with the change to get to maxes in 2018.


Would DLO excel playing at this pace? The guy wasn't exactly exuding with energy.

It would have been interesting to see, no? It's odd to me that Lonzo has this transformative effect on everyone but people think apparently Russell would be the exception.

Oh well, sucks but that's how it goes. Rob & Magic have earned the patience for us to see what they do with Mozgov's cap space.


It would be interesting, but I kind of doubt that just playing with him could fundamentally change a player's DNA. Everyone's he playing with now more or less (Zubac?) seems to be a high, or least not low, energy player.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:

It would be interesting, but I kind of doubt that just playing with him could fundamentally change a player's DNA. Everyone's he playing with now more or less (Zubac?) seems to be a high, or least not low, energy player.

Yeah I see the opposite side of the argument as well, and it's reasonable. I just wish we could've actually seen it and found out. I don't want to underestimate the Lonzo effect and think it's possible we would've seen a different side to him.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
levon wrote:
trablos wrote:
2019 wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too


No he didn't


idk man

Quote:
“I thought was going to be a big part of our future here. Obviously, that isn't the case now, but trades are always tough,” Walton said. “But at the same, you're around this game long enough, you realize there's a huge business side to it and you get used to it.”

“I said 'Look, I hope you end being an All-Star and come back kicking our butts. I really do.'“ Walton said. “I hope he gets it and it works out for him well, but you have to move on because now we got other guys and it's just the way our business goes. I wish him the best and hope that he has a long, successful career. It's always tough when you make trades like that.”


sure sounds like he wanted DLO to stick around


I've never understood the notion that DLO clashed with Luke. They were constantly praising each other.

Anyway, I'm the biggest DLO stan on here so I hate reading this kind of stuff because it confirms what so many of us were excited about for months.. Ball/DLO/Ingram. That trio would have been scary.

However, DLO's gone and he's going to go on to become a 5-10 time all star and we're just going to have to appreciate from afar and always kind of wonder what if.

We, on the other hand, seem to be in position to get a couple mega stars next summer.

It was always nothing more than hot air. We know this because many assumptions had to be made to make this appear to be reality, whereas everything we have seen/heard tells us that they got along well.

I have a mpg stat that may suggest otherwise


Make sure to post the MPG of the entire team that way there's no misinterpretation of the way Luke distributed minutes last season.

There's no misinterpretation. Yes he got more minutes post-Lou, but your most promising kid has gotta play more minutes than some guy you're showcasing to get a late 1st rounder. Not to mention the circumstances, when he'd make a mistake he'd get pulled while Clarkson could wet the bed all 4th quarter and stay in. At one point he was getting less than Byron minutes.

All this to say while I'm not entirely convinced about Luke, there had to either be some problems between Russell and the coaching staff, or some latent injury.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too


No he didn't


idk man

Quote:
“I thought was going to be a big part of our future here. Obviously, that isn't the case now, but trades are always tough,” Walton said. “But at the same, you're around this game long enough, you realize there's a huge business side to it and you get used to it.”

“I said 'Look, I hope you end being an All-Star and come back kicking our butts. I really do.'“ Walton said. “I hope he gets it and it works out for him well, but you have to move on because now we got other guys and it's just the way our business goes. I wish him the best and hope that he has a long, successful career. It's always tough when you make trades like that.”


sure sounds like he wanted DLO to stick around


Maybe, but it does sound good coming from your former coach. Even if is just PR it was appropriate.
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levon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too


No he didn't


idk man

Quote:
“I thought was going to be a big part of our future here. Obviously, that isn't the case now, but trades are always tough,” Walton said. “But at the same, you're around this game long enough, you realize there's a huge business side to it and you get used to it.”

“I said 'Look, I hope you end being an All-Star and come back kicking our butts. I really do.'“ Walton said. “I hope he gets it and it works out for him well, but you have to move on because now we got other guys and it's just the way our business goes. I wish him the best and hope that he has a long, successful career. It's always tough when you make trades like that.”


sure sounds like he wanted DLO to stick around


Maybe, but it does sound good coming from your former coach. Even if is just PR it was appropriate.

Yeah I don't doubt Luke's PR game.
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Chase.button07
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too


No he didn't


idk man

Quote:
“I thought was going to be a big part of our future here. Obviously, that isn't the case now, but trades are always tough,” Walton said. “But at the same, you're around this game long enough, you realize there's a huge business side to it and you get used to it.”

“I said 'Look, I hope you end being an All-Star and come back kicking our butts. I really do.'“ Walton said. “I hope he gets it and it works out for him well, but you have to move on because now we got other guys and it's just the way our business goes. I wish him the best and hope that he has a long, successful career. It's always tough when you make trades like that.”


sure sounds like he wanted DLO to stick around


Maybe, but it does sound good coming from your former coach. Even if is just PR it was appropriate.


It was all PR. Luke is Smart enough to understand that there is no point throwing stones
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject:

Chase.button07 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too


No he didn't


idk man

Quote:
“I thought was going to be a big part of our future here. Obviously, that isn't the case now, but trades are always tough,” Walton said. “But at the same, you're around this game long enough, you realize there's a huge business side to it and you get used to it.”

“I said 'Look, I hope you end being an All-Star and come back kicking our butts. I really do.'“ Walton said. “I hope he gets it and it works out for him well, but you have to move on because now we got other guys and it's just the way our business goes. I wish him the best and hope that he has a long, successful career. It's always tough when you make trades like that.”


sure sounds like he wanted DLO to stick around


Maybe, but it does sound good coming from your former coach. Even if is just PR it was appropriate.


It was all PR. Luke is Smart enough to understand that there is no point throwing stones


And don't piss off the agent.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
danzag wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too




As much as I disagreed with the DLo trade initially there were definitely things behind the scenes that forced it. I also don't think he would have wanted to play second fiddle to Lonzo.

With that said,

I actually think Lonzo/KCP/Ingram is equally exciting.

KCP like Lopez isnt in our long term plans. KCP could have also possibly been obtainable even with DLO.

DLO not wanting to play 2nd fiddle? Dlo would have loved playing with Ball and having all that pressure taking off. Would have averaged close to 20 easy.

Ball/DLO/Ingram would have been a stud heavy foundation to grow on with the change to get to maxes in 2018.


KCP would not have been attainable if we kept Russell. The big selling point behind offering him a 1 year deal is that he could start at SG next to Lonzo, boost his market value, and sign a huge deal next year. That pitch isn't possible if Russell is still on the roster.

So yeah, the KCP signing mitigates the Russell loss significantly, even if we don't sign 2 max guys next offseason. If we whiff on Lebron and end up signing George and extending KCP, that's not a bad situation at all.
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ahaider
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Chase.button07 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
Chase.button07 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too


No he didn't


idk man

Quote:
“I thought was going to be a big part of our future here. Obviously, that isn't the case now, but trades are always tough,” Walton said. “But at the same, you're around this game long enough, you realize there's a huge business side to it and you get used to it.”

“I said 'Look, I hope you end being an All-Star and come back kicking our butts. I really do.'“ Walton said. “I hope he gets it and it works out for him well, but you have to move on because now we got other guys and it's just the way our business goes. I wish him the best and hope that he has a long, successful career. It's always tough when you make trades like that.”


sure sounds like he wanted DLO to stick around


Maybe, but it does sound good coming from your former coach. Even if is just PR it was appropriate.


It was all PR. Luke is Smart enough to understand that there is no point throwing stones


Listening to the interview - it came across that Luke wasn't the decision maker on this deal. Magic + Rob beleive in the 2018 summer plan and D-lo was the cost to move Mosgov. They picked Lopez because they wanted to compete and they were afraid they wouldn't be able to move that contract in the future.

D'lo's attitude, immaturity, and work ethic did him no favors either. However, if Mitch/Jim didn't sign Mozgov, I'm still unsure D-lo would be here. They clearly want 2 way players exclusively on this roster.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:

There's no misinterpretation. Yes he got more minutes post-Lou, but your most promising kid has gotta play more minutes than some guy you're showcasing to get a late 1st rounder. Not to mention the circumstances, when he'd make a mistake he'd get pulled while Clarkson could wet the bed all 4th quarter and stay in. At one point he was getting less than Byron minutes.

All this to say while I'm not entirely convinced about Luke, there had to either be some problems between Russell and the coaching staff, or some latent injury.


Does this explain why no one on the team averaged more than 29 mpg? D'lo was at 28.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
danzag wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too




As much as I disagreed with the DLo trade initially there were definitely things behind the scenes that forced it. I also don't think he would have wanted to play second fiddle to Lonzo.

With that said,

I actually think Lonzo/KCP/Ingram is equally exciting.

KCP like Lopez isnt in our long term plans. KCP could have also possibly been obtainable even with DLO.

DLO not wanting to play 2nd fiddle? Dlo would have loved playing with Ball and having all that pressure taking off. Would have averaged close to 20 easy.

Ball/DLO/Ingram would have been a stud heavy foundation to grow on with the change to get to maxes in 2018.


The same DLo that liked a tweet saying the Lakers would be stupid to draft Ball?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/05/24/lakers-fans-freak-out-after-they-notice-a-critical-lonzo-ball-tweet-in-dangelo-russells-likes/102114774/
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
levon wrote:

There's no misinterpretation. Yes he got more minutes post-Lou, but your most promising kid has gotta play more minutes than some guy you're showcasing to get a late 1st rounder. Not to mention the circumstances, when he'd make a mistake he'd get pulled while Clarkson could wet the bed all 4th quarter and stay in. At one point he was getting less than Byron minutes.

All this to say while I'm not entirely convinced about Luke, there had to either be some problems between Russell and the coaching staff, or some latent injury.


Does this explain why no one on the team averaged more than 29 mpg? D'lo was at 28.

And I hated that about Luke's minute distribution. Your most productive young star isn't leading in minutes in a rebuilding year, and he got to 28 counting the time post trade deadline. But you conveniently ignored the shorter leash on Russell, and the fact that we knew Russell performed better with more minutes. This whole egalitarian thing on the surface seems like a forced shtick, since they're not even setting screens for each other all year but I'm supposed to believe that auto-generating balanced minutes in 2K is supposed to instill a winning attitude.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Chase.button07 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
danzag wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too




As much as I disagreed with the DLo trade initially there were definitely things behind the scenes that forced it. I also don't think he would have wanted to play second fiddle to Lonzo.

With that said,

I actually think Lonzo/KCP/Ingram is equally exciting.

KCP like Lopez isnt in our long term plans. KCP could have also possibly been obtainable even with DLO.

DLO not wanting to play 2nd fiddle? Dlo would have loved playing with Ball and having all that pressure taking off. Would have averaged close to 20 easy.

Ball/DLO/Ingram would have been a stud heavy foundation to grow on with the change to get to maxes in 2018.


The same DLo that liked a tweet saying the Lakers would be stupid to draft Ball?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/05/24/lakers-fans-freak-out-after-they-notice-a-critical-lonzo-ball-tweet-in-dangelo-russells-likes/102114774/

If you have any faith in Luke's people management -- and I have plenty -- this is a non-issue. He'd get over it if Luke articulated how they'd mesh together.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

You kinda shifted your criticism from Russell to Luke. A player having a short leash isn't an indication that they're at odds with the coaching staff. There's really nothing tangible to suggest there was any issue there, only speculation.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
You kinda shifted your criticism from Russell to Luke. A player having a short leash isn't an indication that they're at odds with the coaching staff. There's really nothing tangible to suggest there was any issue there, only speculation.

I criticize them both. By all indications, Russell wasn't the most receptive learner or communicator. Of course this is all speculation, but I fail to see how you bringing up that everyone played distributed minutes somehow discounts Russell playing 26.5 early 2017 as their best player on a much shorter leash. AND given Russell's earlier history with coaching staffs, it's not altogether unreasonable to say there was something there between him and Luke. You're kind of revising history here.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
danzag wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Luke wanted the Ball/DLO/Ingram trio too




As much as I disagreed with the DLo trade initially there were definitely things behind the scenes that forced it. I also don't think he would have wanted to play second fiddle to Lonzo.

With that said,

I actually think Lonzo/KCP/Ingram is equally exciting.

KCP like Lopez isnt in our long term plans. KCP could have also possibly been obtainable even with DLO.

DLO not wanting to play 2nd fiddle? Dlo would have loved playing with Ball and having all that pressure taking off. Would have averaged close to 20 easy.

Ball/DLO/Ingram would have been a stud heavy foundation to grow on with the change to get to maxes in 2018.


Would DLO excel playing at this pace? The guy wasn't exactly exuding with energy.

It would have been interesting to see, no? It's odd to me that Lonzo has this transformative effect on everyone but people think apparently Russell would be the exception.

Oh well, sucks but that's how it goes. Rob & Magic have earned the patience for us to see what they do with Mozgov's cap space.


DLO would have trouble at this pace, I think. And he appeared to me to not play any real D. With Lonzo being one of those rebounding guards, attempting to have DLO sprint the wings would perhaps not have worked. The real issue for me in all this was not understanding th logic of giving Moz and Deng big long term contracts? It was postulated this was a "mentoring" logic....having to dump DLO to get rid of Moz really points up serious front office flaws.
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