Official Goodbye LUKE WALTON Thread (Luke/Lakers Part Ways, p. 792, Signs Deal with Kings p. 809)
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Good stuff Luke.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


Luke's also doing that thing where he critiques our best prospects like Lonzo with little jabs like "he's got a long way to go." Same thing he did to DLO last year. I don't know what Luke's problem is but he's clearly deficient. I'm glad DLO is flourishing under a good coach in New Jersey, hopefully Magic can make that happen here.


Not sure how after 1 game Flourishing would be the right word to describe DLO's play. He had a pretty average preseason scoring wise and looking at the box score he only played 30 minutes today which is in line with Luke's statement. Should the good coach in New Jersey be questioned as to why his team gave up 141 pts in regulation? What would be the reaction if that was the Lakers?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.


the the comment was about being the most "marketable player", and Kobe was far more marketable than Eddie from day 1.....if I am a season ticket holder (which I am not in LA), I want to watch Lonzo play in 35+ home games....and from what he has shown, he is not durable enough to play 35 minutes a night, 3 and 4 nights a week, for an entire season.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject:

Luke really needs to stop trying to be cute with these lineups
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
deal wrote:
Lots of back seat drivers here...I'll let Luke coach...


If he ever proves that he's actually a good coach he'll earn that confidence.


Last year I feel was an outlier as will be this year but to a lesser extent. The primary focus was and still will be player development although it was disconcerting to watch ISO ball, lack of defense and marginal improvement in the young players.

Luke's statements this year and preseason play showed to me he recognizes these problems and I will judge his performance not by wins/losses but if there is improvement in these areas, especially player development. I will also watch for more consistent and sensible player rotations.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Fox 32 mins
Fultz 18 mins
DSJ 30 mins
Tatum 37 mind
JJ 32 mins


And people want Lonzo playing 35?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject:

My problem is not how many minute he gives Lonzo, specifically, but how he manages minutes and rotations overall. If he keeps distributing minutes evenly across the roster (everybody gets 28...), two distinctive units in starters and bench, and hockey subs all the time, than I'll start losing faith in him as a viable coach for the Lakers.

Maybe Lonzo has stamina issues that prevent him from playing 30+ minutes night in night out, but it isn't true for the most of our players.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:00 am    Post subject:

So, after they did not get a veteran PG and have Ennis as the other option, does anyone really think Luke won't play Lonzo at least 30 mpg?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:02 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
My problem is not how many minute he gives Lonzo, specifically, but how he manages minutes and rotations overall. If he keeps distributing minutes evenly across the roster (everybody gets 28...), two distinctive units in starters and bench, and hockey subs all the time, than I'll start losing faith in him as a viable coach for the Lakers.

Maybe Lonzo has stamina issues that prevent him from playing 30+ minutes night in night out, but it isn't true for the most of our players.


That's the aspect that worries me the most about Luke's coaching. Sadly, it doesn't look like he's changed that mentality (starting scrubs over JC while KCP is suspended just so it doesn't mess with his rotations).

We need more dynamic and adaptable rotations, I don't understand how a young coach like Luke, who was an assistant on the greatest team in basketball these days doesn't see it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:06 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Fox 32 mins
Fultz 18 mins
DSJ 30 mins
Tatum 37 mind
JJ 32 mins


And people want Lonzo playing 35?


Seems pretty fair yeah. Fultz didn't start and isn't the playmaker on offense. Another fact you forgot to post was that another rookie on that team Ben Simmons played 35 minutes.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:56 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
epak wrote:
Fox 32 mins
Fultz 18 mins
DSJ 30 mins
Tatum 37 mind
JJ 32 mins


And people want Lonzo playing 35?


Seems pretty fair yeah. Fultz didn't start and isn't the playmaker on offense. Another fact you forgot to post was that another rookie on that team Ben Simmons played 35 minutes.


Simmons has an NBA body. If you play Lonzo an average of 35 MPG, he will likely be injured within a month.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject:

As long as he crosses the 30 threshold.. I think everyone will be okay.

Lonzo, Kuzma, Randle, KCP, and Ingram all should be playing 30+

In fact, that is the lineup I want to see closing games out
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject:

Will Jordan Clarkson lead us in minutes again?

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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:21 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.


the the comment was about being the most "marketable player", and Kobe was far more marketable than Eddie from day 1.....if I am a season ticket holder (which I am not in LA), I want to watch Lonzo play in 35+ home games....and from what he has shown, he is not durable enough to play 35 minutes a night, 3 and 4 nights a week, for an entire season.


I think that's different. The marketability of winning trumps any individual player. If we had a winning team outside of Lonzo, I'd be more okay with limiting him.

But people aren't coming out to see the Lakers win games because that won't happen very often.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, I'd prefer the game flow to dictate the minutes rather than having this hard cap egalitarian approach.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
epak wrote:
Fox 32 mins
Fultz 18 mins
DSJ 30 mins
Tatum 37 mind
JJ 32 mins


And people want Lonzo playing 35?


Seems pretty fair yeah. Fultz didn't start and isn't the playmaker on offense. Another fact you forgot to post was that another rookie on that team Ben Simmons played 35 minutes.


Simmons has an NBA body. If you play Lonzo an average of 35 MPG, he will likely be injured within a month.


Many players, including rookies we have had in the past had NBA bodies. That doesn't mean squat.

When Randle was drafted, he was touted as the most NBA ready player out the gate because of his "NBA ready body". Yet in 4 years, Randle has yet too average even 29 minutes a game and might not even start on opening night tonight.

Talent is talent. You play the best players the most minutes like Lonzo because it's the best chance to win, and best chance for Lonzo to get those reps for endurance and development.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.


the the comment was about being the most "marketable player", and Kobe was far more marketable than Eddie from day 1.....if I am a season ticket holder (which I am not in LA), I want to watch Lonzo play in 35+ home games....and from what he has shown, he is not durable enough to play 35 minutes a night, 3 and 4 nights a week, for an entire season.


I think that's different. The marketability of winning trumps any individual player. If we had a winning team outside of Lonzo, I'd be more okay with limiting him.

But people aren't coming out to see the Lakers win games because that won't happen very often.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, I'd prefer the game flow to dictate the minutes rather than having this hard cap egalitarian approach.


honestly, that is really what I thought Luke was saying...think people are overreacting to these minute limitations.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:27 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.


the the comment was about being the most "marketable player", and Kobe was far more marketable than Eddie from day 1.....if I am a season ticket holder (which I am not in LA), I want to watch Lonzo play in 35+ home games....and from what he has shown, he is not durable enough to play 35 minutes a night, 3 and 4 nights a week, for an entire season.


I think that's different. The marketability of winning trumps any individual player. If we had a winning team outside of Lonzo, I'd be more okay with limiting him.

But people aren't coming out to see the Lakers win games because that won't happen very often.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, I'd prefer the game flow to dictate the minutes rather than having this hard cap egalitarian approach.


honestly, that is really what I thought Luke was saying...think people are overreacting to these minute limitations.


Well, so he's already predicting the young players won't play well enough to justify more than high 20s minutes?

Why not just SAY that minutes will be managed in accordance with who is playing well and what units are working then?

I think the general fear, is that we've seen Luke go down this road before. I mean, the number of times he iced DLO last season for the sake of minutes was bordering bizarre.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:28 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.


the the comment was about being the most "marketable player", and Kobe was far more marketable than Eddie from day 1.....if I am a season ticket holder (which I am not in LA), I want to watch Lonzo play in 35+ home games....and from what he has shown, he is not durable enough to play 35 minutes a night, 3 and 4 nights a week, for an entire season.


I think that's different. The marketability of winning trumps any individual player. If we had a winning team outside of Lonzo, I'd be more okay with limiting him.

But people aren't coming out to see the Lakers win games because that won't happen very often.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, I'd prefer the game flow to dictate the minutes rather than having this hard cap egalitarian approach.


honestly, that is really what I thought Luke was saying...think people are overreacting to these minute limitations.


The "overreacting" is data based on incorrect minutes and rotations Luke did last year. If he was a proven successful coach, and showed anything in his tenure here thus far to be that coach, no one would have a problem as we would just say "Luke knows best".

Luke has yet to show even an ounce of that, and has instead caused a bunch of headscratching moves and decision-making. That doesn't even factor in his lack of Xs and Os.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
epak wrote:
Fox 32 mins
Fultz 18 mins
DSJ 30 mins
Tatum 37 mind
JJ 32 mins


And people want Lonzo playing 35?


Seems pretty fair yeah. Fultz didn't start and isn't the playmaker on offense. Another fact you forgot to post was that another rookie on that team Ben Simmons played 35 minutes.


Simmons has an NBA body. If you play Lonzo an average of 35 MPG, he will likely be injured within a month.


Many players, including rookies we have had in the past had NBA bodies. That doesn't mean squat.

When Randle was drafted, he was touted as the most NBA ready player out the gate because of his "NBA ready body". Yet in 4 years, Randle has yet too average even 29 minutes a game and might not even start on opening night tonight.

Talent is talent. You play the best players the most minutes like Lonzo because it's the best chance to win, and best chance for Lonzo to get those reps for endurance and development.


feel like we are talking about two different things....I did not bring up the "NBA body" as an explanation to why he does play heavier minutes, but why he is able to play heavier minutes. The Lakers have a financial interest in ensuring Lonzo suits up for as many games as possible as well as a long healthy career. The guy has shown to be a bit brittle so far, and his frail frame suggests he may not respond to heavy minutes well.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Well, so he's already predicting the young players won't play well enough to justify more than high 20s minutes?

Why not just SAY that minutes will be managed in accordance with who is playing well and what units are working then?


I think the general fear, is that we've seen Luke go down this road before. I mean, the number of times he iced DLO last season for the sake of minutes was bordering bizarre.


he may have contradicted himself, but he did explicitly say that.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:33 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
epak wrote:
Fox 32 mins
Fultz 18 mins
DSJ 30 mins
Tatum 37 mind
JJ 32 mins


And people want Lonzo playing 35?


Seems pretty fair yeah. Fultz didn't start and isn't the playmaker on offense. Another fact you forgot to post was that another rookie on that team Ben Simmons played 35 minutes.


Simmons has an NBA body. If you play Lonzo an average of 35 MPG, he will likely be injured within a month.


Many players, including rookies we have had in the past had NBA bodies. That doesn't mean squat.

When Randle was drafted, he was touted as the most NBA ready player out the gate because of his "NBA ready body". Yet in 4 years, Randle has yet too average even 29 minutes a game and might not even start on opening night tonight.

Talent is talent. You play the best players the most minutes like Lonzo because it's the best chance to win, and best chance for Lonzo to get those reps for endurance and development.


feel like we are talking about two different things....I did not bring up the "NBA body" as an explanation to why he does play heavier minutes, but why he is able to play heavier minutes. The Lakers have a financial interest in ensuring Lonzo suits up for as many games as possible as well as a long healthy career. The guy has shown to be a bit brittle so far, and his frail frame suggests he may not respond to heavy minutes well.


He may or may not. We don't know that for sure and Luke shouldn't make assumptions of this until we see how he responds to it.

It's the same kind of mistakes Luke did with screwing around with DLO last season. And we are now seeing what a player like DLO really does when you don't (bleep) around with minutes and rotations without seeing how a game plays out.

Luke is acting like a Byron Scott copy instead of going with how the game actually plays out. Only Luke is even more restrictive than Byron was with minutes on starters which says A LOT.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


Is there an Eddie Jones or even Rick Fox on this team?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Per Mike Trudells Twitter. Sigh, not again.

Quote:
Walton doesn’t expect any of his young players to play huge minutes. Targeting high 20′s, at most 35 on given nights, for guys like Lonzo.


Magic will call for Luke's head within 10 games of the season.

Book it. Fans didn't pay up tickets and merchandise to see their most marketable player since Kobe to not play at least 30+ a game.


yet Kobe didn't reach 30 MPG until his 3rd season.....and the variance between hype and talent was significantly smaller with Kobe.


To be fair, Kobe was playing behind EJ.
And I'm paying higher tickets prices to watch Lonzo play 29 mpg.


the the comment was about being the most "marketable player", and Kobe was far more marketable than Eddie from day 1.....if I am a season ticket holder (which I am not in LA), I want to watch Lonzo play in 35+ home games....and from what he has shown, he is not durable enough to play 35 minutes a night, 3 and 4 nights a week, for an entire season.


I think that's different. The marketability of winning trumps any individual player. If we had a winning team outside of Lonzo, I'd be more okay with limiting him.

But people aren't coming out to see the Lakers win games because that won't happen very often.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, I'd prefer the game flow to dictate the minutes rather than having this hard cap egalitarian approach.


honestly, that is really what I thought Luke was saying...think people are overreacting to these minute limitations.


When Luke says that he's going to manage minutes based on performance he's just throwing out meaningless nonsense to appease the media. In reality he sticks to his hockey rotations and guys who are hot languish away on the bench while ending up with 26-29 minutes.
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