Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: How many MVP votes will Kawhi get?
Understanding that Steph will win and it probably won't be close, what about a guy who's shooting almost as well, is the favorite for DPoY, and whose team will win 66/67 games? Doesn't this man deserve some consideration?
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: How many MVP votes will Kawhi get?
Math wrote:
Understanding that Steph will win and it probably won't be close, what about a guy who's shooting almost as well, is the favorite for DPoY, and whose team will win 66/67 games? Doesn't this man deserve some consideration?
It's not like they go in a room and divide up first place votes proportionally among the top contenders. Each voter decides who to put first. I'd go with Curry. Maybe 1 or 2 of the real voters will go with Leonard.
I'd go with Steph, too. Just saying that what Kawhi has done this year has been incredible and I wouldn't be surprised if he snagged a couple of votes. And if he does, I think they're well deserved.
Steph was MVP last year and still made massive improvement. Kwahi has done well and so has KD if you look at his stats, but he should be 2nd choice expect for one or two folks who vote.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
And on the other side of the court (offense) ... on a Per 36 basis, Kawhi has generated this year 23 PPG on 51% / 44% / 87% efficiency + 7.5 rebounds + 2.8 assists + 1.9 steals + 1.1 blocks, and just 1.6 turnovers + 2 personal fouls per game.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable. _________________ RIP Kobe
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
Exactly the point. PPG is exalted over what happens on the other half of the court.
It really comes down to Steph's 9 more points per game and 6 more team wins versus Kawhi's elite defense. The rest balances out fairly well.
For the record I love Steph. Been a huge fan for years. I just think defense is undervalued when it comes to MVP discussions. They seem to save those considerations for DPOY and focus on offense and wins for MVP.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument. _________________ RIP Kobe
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument.
Here is an excellent analysis of how good Steph Curry has become defensively. Kerr and assistant coach Adams challenged Curry to play both ends, and he has responded. The misconception of him being a poor defender is a hangover from when Jackson would put Thompson on the stronger player to let Curry rest for offense.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument.
At least we're able to make one another laugh ...
Anyway, here are some facts for you:
1. Reigning DPOY [despite playing only 64 games] (Kawhi)
2. Reigning 1st-team All Defense [again, despite only playing 64 games] (Kawhi)
3. Better 2015/2016 DRtg (96 vs. 103)
4. Better 2015/2016 DWS (5.5 vs. 4.1)
5. Better 2015/2016 DBPM (2.8 vs. 0.1)
6. Better when it comes to Steals + Blocks - Turnovers (in 2015/2016): 1.0 vs. -1.0
And for avoidance of doubt, Kawhi has been vastly superior to Steph on the defensive side of the court (as illustrated above, and now below, as well) every single year that their NBA careers have overlapped (2011/2012 forward).
Drtg: Kawhi (101, 99, 98, 96 and 96) vs. Steph (108, 107, 104, 101 and 103)
DWS: Kawhi (2.4, 3.3, 3.9, 4.4 and 5.5) vs. Steph (0.4, 2.8, 4.0, 4.1 ad 4.1)
DBPM: Kawhi (2.3, 2.5, 3.4, 3.5 and 2.8) vs. Steph (-1.3, -0.9, 0.0, 0.3 and 0.1)
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
Furthermore, Kawhi was also significantly more productive in limiting LeBron and Kevin Durant (the other Top 2 at the SF position) this year than Steph was in limiting Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul (the other Top 2 at the PG position).
And here's what the people who earn a living assessing these matters think ...
The foregoing constitutes enough facts for me ... if not for you, that's fine. But don't continue thinking you have the high ground on this repartee. You don't. Period, full stop.
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court. Steph certainly has much greater scoring versatility than Kawhi and leads to gravity consequences that vastly benefit his teammates (in comparison to Kawhi, for example), but the singular task of scoring points doesn't require versatility or gravity or anything other than its own binary assessment.
I think Steph is the runaway MVP. I think Draymond will win the DPOY this year, though I believe Kawhi should be the back-to-back winner. And I also think Kawhi may snare a few MVP votes, and that if he does so, it will be justifiable. That's it ... there's no mystery here.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument.
At least we're able to make one another laugh ...
Anyway, here are some facts for you:
1. Reigning DPOY [despite playing only 64 games] (Kawhi)
2. Reigning 1st-team All Defense [again, despite only playing 64 games] (Kawhi)
3. Better 2015/2016 DRtg (96 vs. 103)
4. Better 2015/2016 DWS (5.5 vs. 4.1)
5. Better 2015/2016 DBPM (2.8 vs. 0.1)
6. Better when it comes to Steals + Blocks - Turnovers (in 2015/2016): 1.0 vs. -1.0
And for avoidance of doubt, Kawhi has been vastly superior to Steph on the defensive side of the court (as illustrated above, and now below, as well) every single year that their NBA careers have overlapped (2011/2012 forward).
Drtg: Kawhi (101, 99, 98, 96 and 96) vs. Steph (108, 107, 104, 101 and 103)
DWS: Kawhi (2.4, 3.3, 3.9, 4.4 and 5.5) vs. Steph (0.4, 2.8, 4.0, 4.1 ad 4.1)
DBPM: Kawhi (2.3, 2.5, 3.4, 3.5 and 2.8) vs. Steph (-1.3, -0.9, 0.0, 0.3 and 0.1)
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
Furthermore, Kawhi was also significantly more productive in limiting LeBron and Kevin Durant (the other Top 2 at the SF position) this year than Steph was in limiting Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul (the other Top 2 at the PG position).
And here's what the people who earn a living assessing these matters think ...
The foregoing constitutes enough facts for me ... if not for you, that's fine. But don't continue thinking you have the high ground on this repartee. You don't. Period, full stop.
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court. Steph certainly has much greater scoring versatility than Kawhi and leads to gravity consequences that vastly benefit his teammates (in comparison to Kawhi, for example), but the singular task of scoring points doesn't require versatility or gravity or anything other than its own binary assessment.
I think Steph is the runaway MVP. I think Draymond will win the DPOY this year, though I believe Kawhi should be the back-to-back winner. And I also think Kawhi may snare a few MVP votes, and that if he does so, it will be justifiable. That's it ... there's no mystery here.
So let's sum up, aside from the insults in the previous post.
1. A bunch of stats isolated without context.
2. Stats from previous seasons for some reason.
3.
Quote:
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
A SF with 2 elite defensive bigs and 3 elite defensive guards around him is the anchor of the defense while a PG with only 1 elite defensive teammate benefits from his teammates support. Listen to yourself.
4. Isolated games against the top guys in the positions. Meaningless.
5. Random articles from writers paid to generate clicks. I wasn't aware Sekou Smith is the ultimate weapon of reasoning. I'd list articles where the writers were laughably wrong, such as the guy who said Chris Paul was the runaway 2008 MVP and the other who said the Celtics would sweep the Lakers in 2010, but I don't have the time for that.
6.
Quote:
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court.
And as I suspected you are a sad Spurs troll. Good luck getting (bleeped) by the Warriors in the conference finals.
7. I said bring up some nice facts, not a bunch of random stats and articles without proper context/reasoning.
8. I should be treated with pejorative feedback? Sure thing buddy. Go learn a thing or two about bball before coming here and giving personal attacks. _________________ RIP Kobe
Last edited by Number 7 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument.
At least we're able to make one another laugh ...
Anyway, here are some facts for you:
1. Reigning DPOY [despite playing only 64 games] (Kawhi)
2. Reigning 1st-team All Defense [again, despite only playing 64 games] (Kawhi)
3. Better 2015/2016 DRtg (96 vs. 103)
4. Better 2015/2016 DWS (5.5 vs. 4.1)
5. Better 2015/2016 DBPM (2.8 vs. 0.1)
6. Better when it comes to Steals + Blocks - Turnovers (in 2015/2016): 1.0 vs. -1.0
And for avoidance of doubt, Kawhi has been vastly superior to Steph on the defensive side of the court (as illustrated above, and now below, as well) every single year that their NBA careers have overlapped (2011/2012 forward).
Drtg: Kawhi (101, 99, 98, 96 and 96) vs. Steph (108, 107, 104, 101 and 103)
DWS: Kawhi (2.4, 3.3, 3.9, 4.4 and 5.5) vs. Steph (0.4, 2.8, 4.0, 4.1 ad 4.1)
DBPM: Kawhi (2.3, 2.5, 3.4, 3.5 and 2.8) vs. Steph (-1.3, -0.9, 0.0, 0.3 and 0.1)
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
Furthermore, Kawhi was also significantly more productive in limiting LeBron and Kevin Durant (the other Top 2 at the SF position) this year than Steph was in limiting Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul (the other Top 2 at the PG position).
And here's what the people who earn a living assessing these matters think ...
The foregoing constitutes enough facts for me ... if not for you, that's fine. But don't continue thinking you have the high ground on this repartee. You don't. Period, full stop.
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court. Steph certainly has much greater scoring versatility than Kawhi and leads to gravity consequences that vastly benefit his teammates (in comparison to Kawhi, for example), but the singular task of scoring points doesn't require versatility or gravity or anything other than its own binary assessment.
I think Steph is the runaway MVP. I think Draymond will win the DPOY this year, though I believe Kawhi should be the back-to-back winner. And I also think Kawhi may snare a few MVP votes, and that if he does so, it will be justifiable. That's it ... there's no mystery here.
So let's sum up, aside from the insults in the previous post.
1. A bunch of stats isolated without context.
2. Stats from previous seasons for some reason.
3.
Quote:
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
A SF with 2 elite defensive bigs and 3 elite defensive guards around him is the anchor of the defense while a PG with only 1 elite defensive teammate benefits from his teammates support. Listen to yourself.
4. Isolated games against the top guys in the positions. Meaningless.
5. Random articles from random people. I wasn't aware Sekou Smith is the ultimate weapon of reasoning.
6.
Quote:
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court.
And as I suspected you are a sad Spurs troll. Good luck getting (bleeped) by the Warriors in the conference finals.
7. I said bring up some nice facts, not a bunch of random stats and articles without proper context/reasoning.
8. I should be treated with pejorative feedback? Sure thing buddy. Go learn a thing or two about bball before coming here and giving personal attacks.
On one side of the court (defense), Kawhi delivers legitimate DPOY-level performance nearly every night. He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Completely disagree. Leonard is a solid defender, but in the games I've seen him play this season he has not been playing DPOY defense. Of course, Whiteside is in the race and he gets out of position all the time to chase blocks, so it's impossible to take the whole thing seriously. Green deserves it though and he's probably getting it.
Curry is a solid defender for a PG, a much different and more difficult position to defend than SF, so another universe in comparison is laughable.
The comparison was limited to Steph and Kawhi. Where did Whiteside (or Draymond, for that matter) enter the discussion?
But since you brought Whiteside up, allow me to briefly respond: none of the media members lined up at ESPN (you know, the types who decide these types of matters) have Whiteside at the top of the DPOY watch list. They have Kawhi and Draymond. And (obviously, or so I thought) none of them have Curry anywhere on the DPOY watch list, nor any of the All Defense teams. The same is true at NBA.com and SI.com, both of which have Kawhi as the consensus DPOY winner with a unanimous 1st team All Defense appointment. And back to Whiteside ... I don't see him even as 1st team All Defense on a consensus basis anywhere.
Beyond that Whiteside distraction, I encourage you to review the production of ALL of the Top SF in the Association vs. Kawhi. Do the same for ALL of the Top PG vs. Steph. I'm not arguing that Kawhi should win the R/S MVP this year, nor that he should or will accrue more than a handful or so of votes. I'm highlighting the fact that basketball involves 2-way play and, indirectly, that PPG adherents (among others) are seemingly incapable of accepting that fact (at least, apparently, without forcing a suspension of disbelief in the "who's better at defense" debate).
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position. There should be a lot of pejorative feedback coming your way, but I'll defer because I don't care to deal with the hypocritical nonsense.
Laughable.
Curry plays a much harder position talent-wise. There's no comparison between PG and SF talent in the league. Curry takes on a much harder defensive role. Let's go by defensive rating, a good state to gauge a player's effectiveness. Leonard is 2nd in the league with 94.9, while Curry is the 7th guard in the league with 102. 7th best is borderline elite for guards. Since defense is usually a team sport, let's look for some of their teammates. Leonard has Duncan with the 3rd best grade in the league at 95, Aldridge with the 8th best grade in the league, Green with the best guard grade in the league, Mills with the 5th best guard grade and Parker with the 8th best guard grade in the league. Add in an efficient offense with the 26th most 3pt shots in the league which limits fastbreaks and the giant Marianovic inside and we can all see how great the Spurs defense around Leonard is. Best in the league by far, actually. Curry has Draymond Green with the 9th best grade in the league. Nobody else in the top 50. The Warriors are also 1st in 3pt attempts, with a lot of fastbreaks and a high pace, and usually play small with only one big guy, if at all. Therefore, there's not much help back there, certainly not Duncan/Aldridge/Marianovic like Kawhi does.
What you can understand from all this is that Kawhi benefits tremendously from great defensive players all around him and a weaker position, while Curry guards a tougher position without the help that Kawhi gets. With those factors in play, I'm actually amazed that Steph is the 7th best guard in defensive rating. Way to go Steph!
Quote:
He's in another universe in comparison to the vastly inferior level of effort and efficacy that Steph Curry has brought to bear on the defensive side of the court throughout the season.
Quote:
I'll stop there ... what's clear from your response is that you have an issue of some kind with Kawhi, which obviously conflicts with my views greatly. Nothing further of constructive value will come of debating the relative defensive merits of Kawhi and Curry. If you persist in thinking that Steph Curry is anything other than significantly inferior to Kawhi when it comes to an ENTIRE 1/2 of the game, you'll just have to carry that flag with whomever else here is intrepid enough to associate with that position.
How about this bro: Next time you wanna get into an argument with someone who knows and understands the game like me, you do your homework and come up with some nice facts to support your position. I'm all for arguing, but I can't waste my time with people who are too bored to come up with a good argument.
At least we're able to make one another laugh ...
Anyway, here are some facts for you:
1. Reigning DPOY [despite playing only 64 games] (Kawhi)
2. Reigning 1st-team All Defense [again, despite only playing 64 games] (Kawhi)
3. Better 2015/2016 DRtg (96 vs. 103)
4. Better 2015/2016 DWS (5.5 vs. 4.1)
5. Better 2015/2016 DBPM (2.8 vs. 0.1)
6. Better when it comes to Steals + Blocks - Turnovers (in 2015/2016): 1.0 vs. -1.0
And for avoidance of doubt, Kawhi has been vastly superior to Steph on the defensive side of the court (as illustrated above, and now below, as well) every single year that their NBA careers have overlapped (2011/2012 forward).
Drtg: Kawhi (101, 99, 98, 96 and 96) vs. Steph (108, 107, 104, 101 and 103)
DWS: Kawhi (2.4, 3.3, 3.9, 4.4 and 5.5) vs. Steph (0.4, 2.8, 4.0, 4.1 ad 4.1)
DBPM: Kawhi (2.3, 2.5, 3.4, 3.5 and 2.8) vs. Steph (-1.3, -0.9, 0.0, 0.3 and 0.1)
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
Furthermore, Kawhi was also significantly more productive in limiting LeBron and Kevin Durant (the other Top 2 at the SF position) this year than Steph was in limiting Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul (the other Top 2 at the PG position).
And here's what the people who earn a living assessing these matters think ...
The foregoing constitutes enough facts for me ... if not for you, that's fine. But don't continue thinking you have the high ground on this repartee. You don't. Period, full stop.
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court. Steph certainly has much greater scoring versatility than Kawhi and leads to gravity consequences that vastly benefit his teammates (in comparison to Kawhi, for example), but the singular task of scoring points doesn't require versatility or gravity or anything other than its own binary assessment.
I think Steph is the runaway MVP. I think Draymond will win the DPOY this year, though I believe Kawhi should be the back-to-back winner. And I also think Kawhi may snare a few MVP votes, and that if he does so, it will be justifiable. That's it ... there's no mystery here.
So let's sum up, aside from the insults in the previous post.
1. A bunch of stats isolated without context.
2. Stats from previous seasons for some reason.
3.
Quote:
Steph is the one who benefits most from solid interior defenders (Draymond [your DPOY winner this year], Bogut and Ezeli) and solid wing defenders surrounding him (Klay, Iguodala ... and Barnes, Livingston and Barbosa, as well). Kawhi is the anchor for the Spurs defense and his exceptional combination of perimeter, interior and help defense is the primary reason for the Spurs #1 defense ranking this year.
A SF with 2 elite defensive bigs and 3 elite defensive guards around him is the anchor of the defense while a PG with only 1 elite defensive teammate benefits from his teammates support. Listen to yourself.
4. Isolated games against the top guys in the positions. Meaningless.
5. Random articles from random people. I wasn't aware Sekou Smith is the ultimate weapon of reasoning.
6.
Quote:
Sure, you can probably entice some support for your position from the usual suspects, but that won't change the consensus view beyond this small LG community. And truth be told, most informed consumers of professional basketball within this community don't believe that Steph is closer in efficacy on the defensive side of the court than Kawhi is to him on the offensive side of the court.
And as I suspected you are a sad Spurs troll. Good luck getting (bleeped) by the Warriors in the conference finals.
7. I said bring up some nice facts, not a bunch of random stats and articles without proper context/reasoning.
8. I should be treated with pejorative feedback? Sure thing buddy. Go learn a thing or two about bball before coming here and giving personal attacks.
Seriously ... ?
Yeah, seriously troll. Go back to spurstalk where you belong. This isn't 1st grade where you can list a bunch of random stuff and seem smart. _________________ RIP Kobe
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