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Wino
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Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | AshesToAshes wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | AshesToAshes wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think people are exaggerating the negative effect that Dwight can have over the young players. Sure he's a prima donna... but we are talking about a badly needed piece and a bottom 2 basketball team... do you think he's going to bring us down to Philly's level? We have nowhere but up to go and he could be a temporary stop gap while we rebuild. He also may flourish on a team that isn't expected to win the championship next year. He's weak mentally but doesn't seem to piss people off so I don't see him destroying the team.
If DLO and Randle are brought down by Dwight's attitude then they weren't superstars in the making anyway.
Dwight
Randle
Durant or Simmons/Ingram
Clarkson
Russell
Add a few key signings to shore up the guard position and we have a playoff team. |
we broke up a playoff team. what is the point there and what is the plan? he's been alienated by Harden a debatable top 3 pg in the league... and you want him being a vet for rookies?
He doesn't provide leadership... just finger-pointing.
and if guys aren't superstars as you said... Gasol says hi. |
If DLO or Randle are ever going to be championship quality leaders... they will do like 21 year old Magic and appease the big guy's ego... just so he serves their purposes not the other way around. Not that D12 is anywhere near the level of KAJ33 but the principle is the same.
I'm not even saying that this is by any means my first choice... I'm simply playing devil's advocate here. |
Have you watched the rockets? uninspired, no identity, unmotivated.... and you don't just need to appease D12, you need to hold him up and support him to the point of covering for his deficiencies - which he doesn't even recognize or care about.
And why are we talking about the young guys when D12's potential actually limits a team?
As a top C in the league he's lost two years in a row to small ball. he's sad.
i mean i'll give it to the rockets for their lineup... but really there's supposed to be nothing wrong with it - except attitude. and appeasing d12 doesn't really accomplish anything. |
Personally I thought we should have never gotten rid of Pau... people think of him as soft but he gets his share of blocks... but unless you can name 5 centers we could sign instead of Dwight, I don't want to go another year with Tarik Black. |
This, I agree with. But to me, this was backlash from the attempt by Mitch to bring in Paul. It caused tons of problems for us. Ultimately, we didn't get rid of Pau, he left on his own. That is always hurtful, but he got tired of being unappreciated by our FO. Hard to blame him.
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think people are exaggerating the negative effect that Dwight can have over the young players. Sure he's a prima donna... but we are talking about a badly needed piece and a bottom 2 basketball team... do you think he's going to bring us down to Philly's level? We have nowhere but up to go and he could be a temporary stop gap while we rebuild. He also may flourish on a team that isn't expected to win the championship next year. He's weak mentally but doesn't seem to piss people off so I don't see him destroying the team.
If DLO and Randle are brought down by Dwight's attitude then they weren't superstars in the making anyway.
Dwight
Randle
Durant or Simmons/Ingram
Clarkson
Russell
Add a few key signings to shore up the guard position and we have a playoff team. |
EVERY single place Dwight has played has been mired in controversy and he has wanted out. He fancies himself as a 25/15 player who simply is NOT being given the opportunities that he needs to succeed. And he ain't gonna give his all, if it all given to him first!
He is absolutely a cancer to any player better than he is and to any worse.
The fact that he is a douche bag besides, and the fact that he was disrespectful to Kobe, just add Laker fuel to the fire and IMHO, he can go F himself.
Every time something bad happens to him, I am happy for him! |
Every place? He's only played for three teams. He led Orlando to the finals and they haven't sniffed even the playoffs since. We made the playoffs and then became a lottery team when he left. Houston made the Western Conference finals and one can put the blame on Harden equally for their current fall this season. You can't blame him for wanting to play in a large market after several years in Orlando... We weren't compatible with him because of Kobe and Houston isn't compatible with him because of Harden. The thing is... we don't have a Kobe/Harden quality player. The only player that probably wouldn't work with him is Westbrook... but I personally don't want to stake my future on signing a poor shooting athletic freak of nature that will be two years older by the time we have the chance to sign him.
As far as Kobe goes... I understand why young fans are offended by Dwight... but as an older fan that has watched them since the days of 13, Stumpy and the Logo... I don't hold Kobe as much in awe as others.
Sure Dwight disrespected him... but so did every other major free agent that wouldn't sign with us the last two years. Dwight at least gave it a chance. |
First off, he was disrespectful to Orlando. Ask the fans there! And while you can put some blame on Harden, no doubt, at least he plays with heart and wants to win. Do you watch Dwight?? I do, and he shows such a lack of effort at times that it would be completely maddening if he was on my team. One foot from the basket and he throws up a soft shot that misses by 2 feet!! Seriously, he has been miserable in the playoffs.
So, according to Dwight, nobody was compatible with him in Orlando either?? At some point, the compatibility is NOT about OTHER players, it's about him not being compatible!! When are you gonna hold him responsible?? First it was Nelson, Hill and Turkoglu, then it was Kobe and now it's Harden. All good players, with 3 that are easily better than Howard will ever be. So, however long you have been a fan, I guarantee you that you have not been watching this game as long as I have. There are only a handful around here that have, and my guess is you aren't one of them. Not that it matters, but you brought it up.
As far as other players being disrespectful. That is not really correct. Some people did NOT want to come play here because Kobe was on his final legs and was playing very injured, most of them did not think he would make it back in time to be helpful, but they did not disrespect him and/or ask the team to trade Kobe if they came to play here. Come on!! Be real.
Dwight asked the Lakers to move Kobe if they wanted him here. what the heck has he done in Houston?? Worn out his welcome!!! IF he would have come here, the team could have potentially been his now, with positive feelings and tons of money to spend on FA's!
And you DON'T hold Kobe in awe??? Really, 5 rings is NOT enough for you to be in awe of a player?? And you are an older fan?? Like how many first option players have you seen in this league who have 5 rings? I personally respect them ALL, and hold them ALL in awe. At the very least, Kobe is one of them. Beyond that, he has been one of the hardest working players in the game and I hold that in awe. His ability to play through injury is another thing I hold in awe.
Looking at what you said, I don't agree with a single point you made. In fact, they tend to make me think you are some kind of weird anti fan, who buys into the Kobe hate and has little appreciation for what he has done for our team and our city. |
I like team play Russell's Celtics... Holzman's Knicks... Showtime Lakers... Popovich's Spurs. I'm posting on the message board of a team that has finished 2nd to last this year that I have followed since I was a child in the sixties... so clearly I'm not a front running bandwagoner.
If you like Kobe that is your right... but it doesn't make me an anti-fan or a bad Laker fan just because I prefer teams that focus on the group over individual greatness. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
That's just ridiculous.
| Quote: | | And while you can put some blame on Harden, no doubt, at least he plays with heart and wants to win. |
That too. He's a bum on the defensive end. I can't blame any player for having a problem with that.
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:18 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
It's a fair point... but I don't look at Dwight having any real power like Kobe.
I think of Kobe as someone that ruled the organization with an iron fist... I look at Dwight as an underachieving clown that might be tamed by the right coach or teammates. Of course, if this is wrong... then I agree with your point completely. |
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frijolero01
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Dwight's a douche but, in his defense, Harden's style of play does not win championships. dribble dribble dribble, 3 pointer, dribble dribble, drive it in, flop, free throw.
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Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I've been calling a few things right recently so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself but I can guarantee you he has no legit interest in Lakers, it's about using them to increase competition interest for him. If you have 7 teams after you instead of 2 or 3 only helps you more. He's told the Bucks, Knicks and many other teams he has interest.
My prediction is he stays in Texas. He will sign a 23$M a year deal for 4 years (4th year player option) with Houston or Dallas. Dallas will recruit him like they did DeAndre last year and Parsons if he stays with the Mavs is likely to nab him. If JVG is coach in Houston next year, I see them wanting to keep Dwight because JVG has always valued a big man in the middle, especially one that can board and block some shots.
He is not getting his grandfathered max. No freaking way. |
No way will Morey give him a 4 yr deal in that salary range. I highly doubt he would give him a 4 year deal period. I can see some team giving him 3 yr, $60M, or something like that. |
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Thugnomoe
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
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Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: |
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yeah.. he's not taking 8mill a year.. there's no way..
someone will over pay. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| I'd rather pay 60 million for 3 years for Dwight than the overrated Nic Batum who averages the exact same career scoring average as that certain player who we are no longer allowed to post about. |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
It's a fair point... but I don't look at Dwight having any real power like Kobe.
I think of Kobe as someone that ruled the organization with an iron fist... I look at Dwight as an underachieving clown that might be tamed by the right coach or teammates. Of course, if this is wrong... then I agree with your point completely. |
Generally if someone is a certain way 11 years into his career, that's the way he's going to remain. Add in a marked decline in health and, well, that's not exactly encouraging.
We're not talking about a kid in his early 20's who has only been in the league for a few years and still has a shot at correcting issues. |
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Wino
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
Love it!
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
It's a fair point... but I don't look at Dwight having any real power like Kobe.
I think of Kobe as someone that ruled the organization with an iron fist... I look at Dwight as an underachieving clown that might be tamed by the right coach or teammates. Of course, if this is wrong... then I agree with your point completely. |
Generally if someone is a certain way 11 years into his career, that's the way he's going to remain. Add in a marked decline in health and, well, that's not exactly encouraging.
We're not talking about a kid in his early 20's who has only been in the league for a few years and still has a shot at correcting issues. |
Yup. Hilarious is the fact Dwight has been the exact same player season after season since he was drafted. Nothing new to see except the loss of his athletic ability.
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Music is my medicine |
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Wino
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
It's a fair point... but I don't look at Dwight having any real power like Kobe.
I think of Kobe as someone that ruled the organization with an iron fist... I look at Dwight as an underachieving clown that might be tamed by the right coach or teammates. Of course, if this is wrong... then I agree with your point completely. |
And yet he has managed to screw over two teams so far, that when he left, were left in ruins!
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
It's a fair point... but I don't look at Dwight having any real power like Kobe.
I think of Kobe as someone that ruled the organization with an iron fist... I look at Dwight as an underachieving clown that might be tamed by the right coach or teammates. Of course, if this is wrong... then I agree with your point completely. |
And yet he has managed to screw over two teams so far, that when he left, were left in ruins! |
All good my dude. He gave us some.great assets.
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Music is my medicine |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | And yet, here you are trying to make an argument for bringing in one of the most selfish players in the league. |
It's a fair point... but I don't look at Dwight having any real power like Kobe.
I think of Kobe as someone that ruled the organization with an iron fist... I look at Dwight as an underachieving clown that might be tamed by the right coach or teammates. Of course, if this is wrong... then I agree with your point completely. |
Generally if someone is a certain way 11 years into his career, that's the way he's going to remain. Add in a marked decline in health and, well, that's not exactly encouraging.
We're not talking about a kid in his early 20's who has only been in the league for a few years and still has a shot at correcting issues. |
I have no illusions that he will be come a superstar again ... I'm hoping for a serviceable center that represents a significant upgrade over Hibbert. It will be a year or two before any of the youngsters threaten his fragile ego... and even if say Russell blows up suddenly you can just trade Dwight for draft picks if they can't coexist. I just want him to get us back above .500... the fine tuning to win a championship can come afterwards. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Houston tried trading him this season and had no takers. I don't see him garnering more interest with a couple years and $40 million still coming his way, especially as he continues to trend downwards in terms of production and health. |
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Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| There are plenty of players to look at outside of Dwight that will give his production. He's a cancer to the locker room and I don't know why this thread has gotten to 17 pages. |
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a2j1m
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Joined: 06 May 2013
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| No To Howard... If we got Durant KD I'll not come here. Howard has been known to not get along with teammates. No no no no no |
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a2j1m
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| *wrong thread* -deleted- |
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business101
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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There is a lot of misinformation about Dwight, here. Let this this straight.
-Dwight's production went down due to career low in usage rate.
-It's clear he is not putting 100% effort out there. Like I said before, it's hard to put 100% effort when you have Harden dominated the ball 80% of the time and completely disrespect the defensive side of the ball. Similar to Kobe, except we can give Kobe the pass since he is aging and can't D up anymore. Harden is simply not putting the same effort on defense like he does on the offensive end.
-Dwight's mentality is a passive-aggressive person. He is a passive because he will not speak up his mind. He's aggressive because he displays the type of effort that make you disrespect his game. I can see the reasons why a lot of Lakers fans in here don't want him. It reminds them of the Shaq who "will not rebound when they are not feeding him the ball". But to Shaq's credit, he doesn't go as far as Dwight who is simply showing disinterest in the game if the team is not involved him enough. This is the main reason why it is hard to make him committed. There has to be a personnel and group of players who defer to him but at the same time no giving him too much work load. The type of teams that need Dwight are the young like the Lakers, Boston type. Also it is important to play a team ball in a Dwight's offense because by now, it's clear he doesn't like to play a hero's ball offense.
-I do think he will go back to being an elite player under the right circumstance. He is still an elite rebounder and shot blocker. The issue is simply effort, effort, and being committed to the team. That is the hard part about evaluating Dwight, and it is why he is a risky player. For the amount of risks, the best scenario is to sign him for the right price. |
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Wino
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Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| business101 wrote: | There is a lot of misinformation about Dwight, here. Let this this straight.
-Dwight's production went down due to career low in usage rate.
-It's clear he is not putting 100% effort out there. Like I said before, it's hard to put 100% effort when you have Harden dominated the ball 80% of the time and completely disrespect the defensive side of the ball. Similar to Kobe, except we can give Kobe the pass since he is aging and can't D up anymore. Harden is simply not putting the same effort on defense like he does on the offensive end.
-Dwight's mentality is a passive-aggressive person. He is a passive because he will not speak up his mind. He's aggressive because he displays the type of effort that make you disrespect his game. I can see the reasons why a lot of Lakers fans in here don't want him. It reminds them of the Shaq who "will not rebound when they are not feeding him the ball". But to Shaq's credit, he doesn't go as far as Dwight who is simply showing disinterest in the game if the team is not involved him enough. This is the main reason why it is hard to make him committed. There has to be a personnel and group of players who defer to him but at the same time no giving him too much work load. The type of teams that need Dwight are the young like the Lakers, Boston type. Also it is important to play a team ball in a Dwight's offense because by now, it's clear he doesn't like to play a hero's ball offense.
-I do think he will go back to being an elite player under the right circumstance. He is still an elite rebounder and shot blocker. The issue is simply effort, effort, and being committed to the team. That is the hard part about evaluating Dwight, and it is why he is a risky player. For the amount of risks, the best scenario is to sign him for the right price. |
Well, I see your points but ...... he really didn't get along with his team mates in Orlando. And that included Nelson who came into the league same time as him.
Based on that, I am a bit worried about how he would treat our youngsters and whether he would mess them up. Not worth the risk to me, too many potential negatives and they could snowball.
We have already seen what kind of trouble the youngsters can get into with one clown, Young, around.
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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RetroNikes
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers should only sign Dwight if the Lakers sign Durant and DeRozan.... He can take what ever is left because he doesn't deserve a max contract. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I haven't followed him, but I wonder if the universe on Dwight's behavior was defined to have started with his time in Houston if everyone would feel the same. He is no longer a max guy but as far as I know he hasn't been a problem in the locker room and his play on the court has been starter level. Maybe I just don't know the particulars. |
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RI Laker
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Posts: 7158
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| As bad as it is for DH in Houston, I think he will find out really fast that he should not opt out despite a ton of team with big dollars to spend. |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:46 am Post subject: |
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I think playing with harden the past couple of seasons should made Dwight appreciate Kobe more.
That being said, Hell no to Dwight |
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