Fixing the Los Angeles Lakers (Roster/Coaching Questions Loom Large in LA - pg. 4)
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fontana3d
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I think you can safely discard Stevens, because Boston wouldn't let him out of his contract, and JVG because I can't see any of ownership going that way. Budenholzer is appealing to me, but I don't see him getting sole power without an ownership veto. The only guy who gets that is Phil imo.

Worth noting that the Laker model was always kind of three headed. Jerry Jerry mitch, Jerry mitch Phil, Jerry mitch Jim. So there is some sellable ground for a third head. Bud fits that in that Jim could sell him and Mitch, with Jim (or ownership consensus) trumping if those two can't agree. Bud concentrates on analytics, coaching, and type of player he wants, mitch on transactions and talent evaluation.


I could live with that, but would really prefer the Lakers get away from the three headed model and let the Basketball Decisions truly rest with one person as far as accountability and final say.

With input of course from everyone else.

The Buss family is very similar to the Spanos family of the San Diego Chargers. Each has involved all the offspring in the organization in roles that many are not qualified for and it doesn't work.

There is no reason to do this with team valuations as they are in the modern era. Be the owner, make your money but outsource the basketball/football decisions to those qualified to make them.

We don't need Buss' in the scouting department or in pseudo GM roles just like the Chargers don't need the Spanos' in player evaluation and head of football ops roles.

It is an ego thing these owners do for their kids who cannot do any real jobs in the world. How about just having them focus on charitable foundations and such and actually use their skills to good use? Having Jim Buss or Jesse Buss in basketball roles is ridiculous, sorry to say.


That's a very rational, supportable take that I respect. I do, however, feel like that option isn't available. It is either a collaborative model under Jim, or hand it over to Phil. And if it is Phil, it is the one gap triangle.

That's where bud fits for me. I have no problem with the talent evaluation (hence no need to toss Jesse) or transactional capability. I have respect for Jim pushing for analytics and Mitch coming along as well, it's just that they don't have experience with how to arrange it and translate it. Bud gives you all of that, and solves the coaching issue as well. And he can tell a free agent with great detail what the plan is on the floor. Mitch is quite amenable to working with coaching needs, and I think Jim won't Bigfoot them. Win win win.


Who's Bud.


Budenholzer.


Oh what does he do? Head coach of the Hawks yeah good luck stealing him away.


Last edited by fontana3d on Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:56 pm    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I think you can safely discard Stevens, because Boston wouldn't let him out of his contract, and JVG because I can't see any of ownership going that way. Budenholzer is appealing to me, but I don't see him getting sole power without an ownership veto. The only guy who gets that is Phil imo.

Worth noting that the Laker model was always kind of three headed. Jerry Jerry mitch, Jerry mitch Phil, Jerry mitch Jim. So there is some sellable ground for a third head. Bud fits that in that Jim could sell him and Mitch, with Jim (or ownership consensus) trumping if those two can't agree. Bud concentrates on analytics, coaching, and type of player he wants, mitch on transactions and talent evaluation.


I could live with that, but would really prefer the Lakers get away from the three headed model and let the Basketball Decisions truly rest with one person as far as accountability and final say.

With input of course from everyone else.

The Buss family is very similar to the Spanos family of the San Diego Chargers. Each has involved all the offspring in the organization in roles that many are not qualified for and it doesn't work.

There is no reason to do this with team valuations as they are in the modern era. Be the owner, make your money but outsource the basketball/football decisions to those qualified to make them.

We don't need Buss' in the scouting department or in pseudo GM roles just like the Chargers don't need the Spanos' in player evaluation and head of football ops roles.

It is an ego thing these owners do for their kids who cannot do any real jobs in the world. How about just having them focus on charitable foundations and such and actually use their skills to good use? Having Jim Buss or Jesse Buss in basketball roles is ridiculous, sorry to say.


That's a very rational, supportable take that I respect. I do, however, feel like that option isn't available. It is either a collaborative model under Jim, or hand it over to Phil. And if it is Phil, it is the one gap triangle.

That's where bud fits for me. I have no problem with the talent evaluation (hence no need to toss Jesse) or transactional capability. I have respect for Jim pushing for analytics and Mitch coming along as well, it's just that they don't have experience with how to arrange it and translate it. Bud gives you all of that, and solves the coaching issue as well. And he can tell a free agent with great detail what the plan is on the floor. Mitch is quite amenable to working with coaching needs, and I think Jim won't Bigfoot them. Win win win.


Who's Bud.


Budenholzer.


Oh what does he do?


Head coach of Atlanta, former assistant to poppovich.
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fontana3d
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I think you can safely discard Stevens, because Boston wouldn't let him out of his contract, and JVG because I can't see any of ownership going that way. Budenholzer is appealing to me, but I don't see him getting sole power without an ownership veto. The only guy who gets that is Phil imo.

Worth noting that the Laker model was always kind of three headed. Jerry Jerry mitch, Jerry mitch Phil, Jerry mitch Jim. So there is some sellable ground for a third head. Bud fits that in that Jim could sell him and Mitch, with Jim (or ownership consensus) trumping if those two can't agree. Bud concentrates on analytics, coaching, and type of player he wants, mitch on transactions and talent evaluation.


I could live with that, but would really prefer the Lakers get away from the three headed model and let the Basketball Decisions truly rest with one person as far as accountability and final say.

With input of course from everyone else.

The Buss family is very similar to the Spanos family of the San Diego Chargers. Each has involved all the offspring in the organization in roles that many are not qualified for and it doesn't work.

There is no reason to do this with team valuations as they are in the modern era. Be the owner, make your money but outsource the basketball/football decisions to those qualified to make them.

We don't need Buss' in the scouting department or in pseudo GM roles just like the Chargers don't need the Spanos' in player evaluation and head of football ops roles.

It is an ego thing these owners do for their kids who cannot do any real jobs in the world. How about just having them focus on charitable foundations and such and actually use their skills to good use? Having Jim Buss or Jesse Buss in basketball roles is ridiculous, sorry to say.


That's a very rational, supportable take that I respect. I do, however, feel like that option isn't available. It is either a collaborative model under Jim, or hand it over to Phil. And if it is Phil, it is the one gap triangle.

That's where bud fits for me. I have no problem with the talent evaluation (hence no need to toss Jesse) or transactional capability. I have respect for Jim pushing for analytics and Mitch coming along as well, it's just that they don't have experience with how to arrange it and translate it. Bud gives you all of that, and solves the coaching issue as well. And he can tell a free agent with great detail what the plan is on the floor. Mitch is quite amenable to working with coaching needs, and I think Jim won't Bigfoot them. Win win win.


Who's Bud.


Budenholzer.


Oh what does he do?


Head coach of Atlanta, former assistant to poppovich.


Oh that guy good luck trying to steal him away from the Hawks because they won't let us.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I think you can safely discard Stevens, because Boston wouldn't let him out of his contract, and JVG because I can't see any of ownership going that way. Budenholzer is appealing to me, but I don't see him getting sole power without an ownership veto. The only guy who gets that is Phil imo.

Worth noting that the Laker model was always kind of three headed. Jerry Jerry mitch, Jerry mitch Phil, Jerry mitch Jim. So there is some sellable ground for a third head. Bud fits that in that Jim could sell him and Mitch, with Jim (or ownership consensus) trumping if those two can't agree. Bud concentrates on analytics, coaching, and type of player he wants, mitch on transactions and talent evaluation.


I could live with that, but would really prefer the Lakers get away from the three headed model and let the Basketball Decisions truly rest with one person as far as accountability and final say.

With input of course from everyone else.

The Buss family is very similar to the Spanos family of the San Diego Chargers. Each has involved all the offspring in the organization in roles that many are not qualified for and it doesn't work.

There is no reason to do this with team valuations as they are in the modern era. Be the owner, make your money but outsource the basketball/football decisions to those qualified to make them.

We don't need Buss' in the scouting department or in pseudo GM roles just like the Chargers don't need the Spanos' in player evaluation and head of football ops roles.

It is an ego thing these owners do for their kids who cannot do any real jobs in the world. How about just having them focus on charitable foundations and such and actually use their skills to good use? Having Jim Buss or Jesse Buss in basketball roles is ridiculous, sorry to say.


That's a very rational, supportable take that I respect. I do, however, feel like that option isn't available. It is either a collaborative model under Jim, or hand it over to Phil. And if it is Phil, it is the one gap triangle.

That's where bud fits for me. I have no problem with the talent evaluation (hence no need to toss Jesse) or transactional capability. I have respect for Jim pushing for analytics and Mitch coming along as well, it's just that they don't have experience with how to arrange it and translate it. Bud gives you all of that, and solves the coaching issue as well. And he can tell a free agent with great detail what the plan is on the floor. Mitch is quite amenable to working with coaching needs, and I think Jim won't Bigfoot them. Win win win.


Who's Bud.


Budenholzer.


Oh what does he do?


Head coach of Atlanta, former assistant to poppovich.


Oh that guy good luck trying to steal him away from the Hawks because they won't let us.


There is uncertainty whether he is under contract beyond this year.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Reminds me of the 1995-1996 offseason when we had a legend retire.
We drafted a future superstar who was too raw for the NBA at the time.
We acquired a big name free agent in the off season.

Hopefully #2 comes to fruition.....
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Reminds me of the 1995-1996 offseason when we had a legend retire.
We drafted a future superstar who was too raw for the NBA at the time.
We acquired a big name free agent in the off season.

Hopefully #2 comes to fruition.....


Let's hope lightning strikes twice!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Time. Lakers don't have enough draft picks to really build that way and they don't have enough talent to attract to tier free agents.

It's going to be 2020s before they even get close to fielding a championship team.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject:

The last time they had to rebuild it took about 8-9 years to field a championship team. So 2019, 2020 is in line with that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The last time they had to rebuild it took about 8-9 years to field a championship team. So 2019, 2020 is in line with that.


People forget that west had 4 rings in 19 years in LA, and 3 were in the first six years with the last guy's stars. Mitch got 4 in 10 with the last guy's stars. He's now just under halfway into the period of time it took west to get his 4th and his first with his own complete build. West never fell to this low a low point, but he didn't have the current cba either, and he went through some pretty awful coaches too.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
I think you can safely discard Stevens, because Boston wouldn't let him out of his contract, and JVG because I can't see any of ownership going that way. Budenholzer is appealing to me, but I don't see him getting sole power without an ownership veto. The only guy who gets that is Phil imo.

Worth noting that the Laker model was always kind of three headed. Jerry Jerry mitch, Jerry mitch Phil, Jerry mitch Jim. So there is some sellable ground for a third head. Bud fits that in that Jim could sell him and Mitch, with Jim (or ownership consensus) trumping if those two can't agree. Bud concentrates on analytics, coaching, and type of player he wants, mitch on transactions and talent evaluation.


I could live with that, but would really prefer the Lakers get away from the three headed model and let the Basketball Decisions truly rest with one person as far as accountability and final say.

With input of course from everyone else.

The Buss family is very similar to the Spanos family of the San Diego Chargers. Each has involved all the offspring in the organization in roles that many are not qualified for and it doesn't work.

There is no reason to do this with team valuations as they are in the modern era. Be the owner, make your money but outsource the basketball/football decisions to those qualified to make them.

We don't need Buss' in the scouting department or in pseudo GM roles just like the Chargers don't need the Spanos' in player evaluation and head of football ops roles.

It is an ego thing these owners do for their kids who cannot do any real jobs in the world. How about just having them focus on charitable foundations and such and actually use their skills to good use? Having Jim Buss or Jesse Buss in basketball roles is ridiculous, sorry to say.


That's a very rational, supportable take that I respect. I do, however, feel like that option isn't available. It is either a collaborative model under Jim, or hand it over to Phil. And if it is Phil, it is the one gap triangle.

That's where bud fits for me. I have no problem with the talent evaluation (hence no need to toss Jesse) or transactional capability. I have respect for Jim pushing for analytics and Mitch coming along as well, it's just that they don't have experience with how to arrange it and translate it. Bud gives you all of that, and solves the coaching issue as well. And he can tell a free agent with great detail what the plan is on the floor. Mitch is quite amenable to working with coaching needs, and I think Jim won't Bigfoot them. Win win win.


Who's Bud.


Budenholzer.


Oh what does he do?


Head coach of Atlanta, former assistant to poppovich.


Oh that guy good luck trying to steal him away from the Hawks because they won't let us.


There is uncertainty whether he is under contract beyond this year.


Since the Pop connection is being discussed; how about Ime Udoka. He's young and has a nice resume' too.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject:

Don't have a good feel on him.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:34 pm    Post subject:

Sorry, that sounded wrong. I meant I don't know too much about him as a coach.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:34 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The last time they had to rebuild it took about 8-9 years to field a championship team. So 2019, 2020 is in line with that.


People forget that west had 4 rings in 19 years in LA, and 3 were in the first six years with the last guy's stars. Mitch got 4 in 10 with the last guy's stars. He's now just under halfway into the period of time it took west to get his 4th and his first with his own complete build. West never fell to this low a low point, but he didn't have the current cba either, and he went through some pretty awful coaches too.


I love Mitch. Hope he stays with the Lakers for another decade.

Fix Lakers step 1: Masking tape over Jeannie Buss' mouth
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject:

Top 2016 Offseason Priorities for the Los Angeles Lakers

Quote:
It was a historic night in the team’s historically bad season.

And now it’s time to look ahead to L.A.’s top offseason priorities.

There will be a top-three draft pick to choose, should the Lakers survive the bouncing lottery balls. The team also has boatloads of cash to spend in free agency.

And then there’s the question of what to do about Byron Scott, a stubborn old-school coach whose 38-126 record during his two-year tenure doesn’t serve as any kind of guiding light for a better tomorrow.




http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2633564-top-2016-offseason-priorities-for-the-los-angeles-lakers
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:13 am    Post subject:

Fire Byron.
Apparently JVG is meeting with teams for a coaching job, I'd try to get him. If not JVG, then go for Luke or Thibs.
Pray Durant wants the Laker throne, if not go for DD and Whiteside.
Retain JC and Black.
Hope someone values Lou or keep him, don't really mind.
Unfortunately, because I like him, we have to get rid of Swaggy - I wonder if there's a package out there that we could get something good back.

Sign Ingram or Simmons, if we get the third pick I'd try to trade it ( a big package with Swaggy, Lou, and the #3 might net us something good, maybe Butler? )
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:54 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Sorry, that sounded wrong. I meant I don't know too much about him as a coach.


IO is a bit of a mystery man but he has a nice resume' having played and coached internationally plus his years working in a winning culture in SA.
We know too that he can recruit having been an ex-NBA player himself (see LMA). Due to his work ethic he would be a great role model for the young players.

He also played in the D-League and was once called up by the Lakers in 2004!

He is a proponent of the Spur's ICE defensive philosophy. Don't know much about his offensive philosophy though (probably similar to what SA runs).

He lives in LA but beyond that I don't know much else about him except that he's married to the actress Nia Long (which is a good thing) .
Quote:
“Ime Udoka possesses an outstanding work ethic as well as a natural inclination to teach. We are excited to add someone with his potential to our coaching staff,” said Spurs Head Coach Gregg Popovich. http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/120828_udoka
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:06 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Sorry, that sounded wrong. I meant I don't know too much about him as a coach.


IO is a bit of a mystery man but he has a nice resume' having played and coached internationally plus his years working in a winning culture in SA.
We know too that he can recruit haven been an ex-NBA player himself (see LMA). Due to his work ethic he would be a great role model for the young players.

He also played in the D-League and was once called up by the Lakers in 2004!

He is a proponent of the Spur's ICE defensive philosophy. Don't know much about his offensive philosophy though (probably similar to what SA runs).

He lives in LA but beyond that I don't know much else about him except that he's married to the actress Nia Long (which is a good thing) .
Quote:
“Ime Udoka possesses an outstanding work ethic as well as a natural inclination to teach. We are excited to add someone with his potential to our coaching staff,” said Spurs Head Coach Gregg Popovich. http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/120828_udoka


I bet the idiot Buss kids would rather stick with Mr. Showtime over getting someone associated with Popovich and the Spurs.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:10 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Sorry, that sounded wrong. I meant I don't know too much about him as a coach.


IO is a bit of a mystery man but he has a nice resume' having played and coached internationally plus his years working in a winning culture in SA.
We know too that he can recruit haven been an ex-NBA player himself (see LMA). Due to his work ethic he would be a great role model for the young players.

He also played in the D-League and was once called up by the Lakers in 2004!

He is a proponent of the Spur's ICE defensive philosophy. Don't know much about his offensive philosophy though (probably similar to what SA runs).

He lives in LA but beyond that I don't know much else about him except that he's married to the actress Nia Long (which is a good thing) .
Quote:
“Ime Udoka possesses an outstanding work ethic as well as a natural inclination to teach. We are excited to add someone with his potential to our coaching staff,” said Spurs Head Coach Gregg Popovich. http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/120828_udoka


I bet the idiot Buss kids would rather stick with Mr. Showtime over getting someone associated with the Popovich and the Spurs.


That would be a shame and a mistake not to at least give them all a look. But it wouldn't be the first blunder the FO has made in recent memory.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:42 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reminds me of the 1995-1996 offseason when we had a legend retire.
We drafted a future superstar who was too raw for the NBA at the time.
We acquired a big name free agent in the off season.

Hopefully #2 comes to fruition.....


Let's hope lightning strikes twice!


we let our youth/talent go for that team also.. NVExel, EJones, Divac (d'an, jc and randle?)

which youngin(s) are on their way out is what's interesting for me right now.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:11 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
pio2u wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reminds me of the 1995-1996 offseason when we had a legend retire.
We drafted a future superstar who was too raw for the NBA at the time.
We acquired a big name free agent in the off season.

Hopefully #2 comes to fruition.....


Let's hope lightning strikes twice!


we let our youth/talent go for that team also.. NVExel, EJones, Divac (d'an, jc and randle?)

which youngin(s) are on their way out is what's interesting for me right now.


We definitely need solid veteran leadership. It's going to be an interesting ride, that's for sure, I hope it will be an enjoyable one.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:24 am    Post subject:

Ok, so that's not that difficult imo:

hire Luke Walton as head coach,

sign Derozan, Bazemore and Byombo/Maihmi this offseason, draft ingram, simmons or trade the pick

bring Durant or Westbrook next year.

Profit, reap the benefits, celebrate championships.

Pretty straightforward to me
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Number 1: figure out a vision for the team. A way you want them to play. The last few years feel like they've just been Jim and Kupchak throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks. Have a half court team with Kobe Dwight and Pau, hire MDA. Have a group of guys suited to playing uptempo, hire Scott.


Amen to that
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:09 am    Post subject:

Lakers: 5 Biggest 2016 Offseason Needs

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Rebuilding as a whole is obviously a lengthy process that requires a level of patience and a great deal of time. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the 2016 NBA offseason is absolutely pivotal to the future success of the Lakers. There’s so much that they absolutely must accomplish this offseason if they want to get back to their winning way sooner rather than later.


http://lakeshowlife.com/2016/04/20/lakers-5-biggest-2016-offseason-needs/
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reminds me of the 1995-1996 offseason when we had a legend retire.
We drafted a future superstar who was too raw for the NBA at the time.
We acquired a big name free agent in the off season.

Hopefully #2 comes to fruition.....


Let's hope lightning strikes twice!


or third time! Magic groomed Shaq and Dwight for us, maybe it's time for them to hand over Vucevic
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject:

This summer will be HUGE!
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