It seems that there are fewer steals this year than in the past and overall, there is a slight downward trend in steals leaders in the NBA, which probably correlate with steals per game in the NBA overall.
Is this as a result of better ballhandling and better passing?
Or is it as a result of increased protection of perimeter players?
I believe pro coaches realized the old-school reaching for steals and getting out of position is very ineffective and so have focused on more positional defense and maintaining discipline. _________________ RIP Kobe
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:03 pm Post subject:
I've always wondered how much steals and blocks really impact the game. Theoretically they can potentially be a 4 point swing each (two points denied and then two points scored) but in practice I think they're actually worth a lot less. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I've always wondered how much steals and blocks really impact the game. Theoretically they can potentially be a 4 point swing each (two points denied and then two points scored) but in practice I think they're actually worth a lot less.
Steals and blocks correlate with a lot of good things, such as athleticism, quickness and size/reach, which correlate with good defense.
I think steals probably are less indicative of good defense than blocks, since going for steals in many instances compromise the defender's position, but blocks should correlate with lowering opponent field goal shooting percentage.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject:
shnxx wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
I've always wondered how much steals and blocks really impact the game. Theoretically they can potentially be a 4 point swing each (two points denied and then two points scored) but in practice I think they're actually worth a lot less.
Steals and blocks correlate with a lot of good things, such as athleticism, quickness and size/reach, which correlate with good defense.
I think steals probably are less indicative of good defense than blocks, since going for steals in many instances compromise the defender's position, but blocks should correlate with lowering opponent field goal shooting percentage.
But it's more the correlation with rim protection rather than the block itself that's important, right? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I've always wondered how much steals and blocks really impact the game. Theoretically they can potentially be a 4 point swing each (two points denied and then two points scored) but in practice I think they're actually worth a lot less.
Steals and blocks correlate with a lot of good things, such as athleticism, quickness and size/reach, which correlate with good defense.
I think steals probably are less indicative of good defense than blocks, since going for steals in many instances compromise the defender's position, but blocks should correlate with lowering opponent field goal shooting percentage.
But it's more the correlation with rim protection rather than the block itself that's important, right?
Yes, that's probably the case.
There are certainly some cases where this correlation probably breaks down, such as players like Javale McGee, who might get you some blocks but are probably not as great addition to team defense as blocks alone may suggest.
But in general, blocks and steals do suggest athleticism, length and better defense, so it's still a useful basic metric.
Clearly, opponent field goal shooting % or pace-adjusted offensive possessions would be superior metrics that more directly measure what we're interested in (measuring defense).
players on the average are much more conscientious of their numbers and data, because it's all being super tracked, so they are very sensitive to criticism, which affects their marketability, reputations, and salary. That's probably the biggest thing compared to players before all this.
Secondly, rule changes. As mentioned above, so many small ball rule changes. Oscar R could not palm the ball the way people do now. They couldn't just blatantly travel and get away with it half the time like they do now. So players now can get away with way more "mistakes" without turning it over. And of course, the inconsistent foul calls, which is going to benefit the people who are clumsy. A guy like Lebron would look clumsy in previous eras, and now he looks like a top superstar.
The reputation one is interesting to me. We have youtube and instant video now. Any little thing gets super scrutinized. We are actually, as fans, seeing way more of the game than we used to. Before, we'd see it once, and have to remember the rest of our lives. Now we can watch every millisecond over and over. Human nature is to criticize, so the players don't want to see all this video and fans criticizing it. So they do their best to stop it....hence, fewer turnovers.
Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that fewer turnovers is because of better players or better basketball. I actually think it has harmed the game. A lot of these mistakes and turnovers is just part of basketball, it's not a big deal. if someone has a bunch of turnovers, who cares? There are so many possessions. You can have a lot of turnovers and win just fine. Each turnover is not created equal. A turnover when you are shooting a buzzer shot is awful. A regular turnover that was a steal in the 2nd quarter, big freaking deal. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking about turnovers in basketball as severely as in football.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:10 am Post subject:
Average steals per game per team is trending up. And they are higher for this decade's seasons than for the previous seasons. So the top guy not being higher than previous years does not seem to have much bearing on it.
As for the leaders not getting as many as before, possibly its due to possessions being more distributed across the team more, rather than concentrated in one individual / position.
Average steals per game per team is trending up. And they are higher for this decade's seasons than for the previous seasons. So the top guy not being higher than previous years does not seem to have much bearing on it.
As for the leaders not getting as many as before, possibly its due to possessions being more distributed across the team more, rather than concentrated in one individual / position.
Average steals per game per team is trending up. And they are higher for this decade's seasons than for the previous seasons. So the top guy not being higher than previous years does not seem to have much bearing on it.
As for the leaders not getting as many as before, possibly its due to possessions being more distributed across the team more, rather than concentrated in one individual / position.
Yeah but pace has been on the upward trend. Using the completely unscientific FGA a game for pace we're at a point that hasn't been seen since 1993-1994 and back then each team averaged 1.1 more steals a game. There looks like a dip in steals starting around 04-05 and it's been pretty much fixed in terms of steals/FGA since then. I'd tend to agree with others rules changes have affected it.
Average steals per game per team is trending up. And they are higher for this decade's seasons than for the previous seasons. So the top guy not being higher than previous years does not seem to have much bearing on it.
As for the leaders not getting as many as before, possibly its due to possessions being more distributed across the team more, rather than concentrated in one individual / position.
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