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the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | after watching the Thunder-Spurs series I think Westbrook is top 5 and I'm not sure if Kawhi belongs in the top 5 anymore. Right now he isnt the kind of superstar who can step up and put up 35+ points when his team needs it.
Curry
Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
CP3
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Kawhi |
I have many thoughts re: how the San Antonio point guards (both Parker and Mills, but esp. Parker), system and coaching philosophy actually adversely affect Kawhi's game and ability to maximize his potential, but I agree with the above anyway. He's progressed really well and he's exceeded the expectations of most who have followed him since college, but it's also terribly frustrating to watch him disappear at times. Again, I think a lot of it is Tony Parker and Popovich, but that doesn't change the outcome, unfortunately. As spectators, we're already expecting an awful lot from a post-lottery draft pick who's not yet 25 years old, but he just needs to do more in the playoffs at this point.
And in thinking about that list further, though, I conclude that everyone may feel very, very differently about this topic after the WCF.
If GS is upset, the Steph stock will likely plummet a great deal (though I imagine he would remain in the Top 5, though unlikely #1). And if OKC loses, it very well may be in spectacular fashion (i.e., 4 - 0 or 4 - 1), which will likely involve either KD or Westbrook (or both) failing to play superstar-level basketball in the series. I don't think there are a ton of guys knocking at the Top 5 door, but the perception of KD and Westbrook (as high right now as it has been in 3/4 years or so) will probably take a hit in the event that GS runs the Thunder out of the gym ...
But for now, I'd have to agree with Kawhi being outside the Top 5 ... |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm comparing them individually. A lot of you are not. The team's success shouldn't play a factor in individual assessment, unless it indicates a quality or characteristic that can applied to the individual.
obviously this discussion is limited to perimeter/shooters. You can forget about big men, there are literally none right now that have anywhere near the impact/hype of the small guys.
Durant, George, Curry, Lillard, Irving, Thomas, CP3, Lebron, Kawhi, Green
That's 10 guys right there. I'd have a hard time whittling it to 5. To me, I'd take Durant first. As good a shooter as anyone, but bigger. Done. I'll take George next for similar reasons.
I'll pick Kawhi and drop Lebron. Similar skillset, Kawhi is better and less annoying. He's more fundamentally skilled. I would not say he can yet carry a team on his back through adversity. I would not say that about Lebron either.
The next batch is Curry/Lillard/Thomas/CP3. Thomas is just too small, but he's legit. I'd like to drop CP3, but he still is a more capable all around guy than Curry or Lillard. Lillard I think has the highest potential and the best overall individual guy. Curry is the best shooter of the bunch and currently playing the best because of very fortunate circumstances for him. So I only drop Thomas.
Green is the guy actually playing the best right now, all around. I have to leave him here until someone else in the league can do stuff like that a lot.
So I'm left with:
Durant, George (best individually)
Lillard/Curry/CP3 (best shooters)
Kawhi/Green (best except for scoring) |
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70sdude
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Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm assuming that "right now" isn't a prima facie exclusion of players whose teams are eliminated from the playoffs or injured (and therefore being incapable of anything "right now".)
Lebron James
Kawhi Leonard
Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Anthony Davis
To me, I would prefer to have any of these five guys playing on my team to having any other active player today, including Kevin Durant, Paul George or Chris Paul.
I have Curry below James and Leonard because he's not nearly able to influence the game's outcome strongly enough on defense, compared to the other two. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | I'm assuming that "right now" isn't a prima facie exclusion of players whose teams are eliminated from the playoffs or injured (and therefore being incapable of anything "right now".)
Lebron James
Kawhi Leonard
Steph Curry
Russell Westbrook
Anthony Davis
To me, I would prefer to have any of these five guys playing on my team to having any other active player today, including Kevin Durant, Paul George or Chris Paul.
I have Curry below James and Leonard because he's not nearly able to influence the game's outcome strongly enough on defense, compared to the other two. |
Magic Johnson and Larry Bird aren't really the greatest defensive players nor did they influence game on the defensive end either but both were considered the best players in the game at some point in their respective careers.
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Luke
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 5004
Location: Deep Europe
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | after watching the Thunder-Spurs series I think Westbrook is top 5 and I'm not sure if Kawhi belongs in the top 5 anymore. Right now he isnt the kind of superstar who can step up and put up 35+ points when his team needs it.
Curry
Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
CP3
----------------
Kawhi |
I don't agree at all.
Spurs losing was not Leonard's fault .
You can't play both ends of the court all year and be a 35+ scorer deep in the playoffs.
Lebron , for instance, is considered a great defender, but he takes a lot of games off on defense, and before going to Miami was an average defender at best.
Let Kawhi take some games off on D like his teammate Aldridge ( and everybody between the so called " best players"), and he will be able to score a lot more. Right now he is just following Pop's plan.
Bottom line Leonard and Draymond Green are the best two-way players on the planet and even top five overall, if they are asked to do more on offense ( Green has just scored 37 without Curry).
Top Five ? I'll let the playoffs finish first, but obviously right now Curry is n° 1, by far. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16702
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Kawahi
Westbrook
Bron
Dlo
Curry |
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Dave20
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: |
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1. Curry
2. Durant
3. Lebron
4. Leonard
5. Westbrook
Durant is better then Lebron and has been for a couple years. Surprised to see some rank Lebron ahead of Durant. The top 2 are significantly better then everyone else imo. |
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GonzagaAlum
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 3021
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Top 5 I'll give people something a little different
1. Curry
2. Lebronze
3. Durant
4. Lillard
5. Paul George
All these guys I believe have the "I can carry the team mentality". Which I value highly.
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the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: | Top 5 I'll give people something a little different
1. Curry
2. Lebronze
3. Durant
4. Lillard
5. Paul George
All these guys I believe have the "I can carry the team mentality". Which I value highly. |
Carry the team where, though? Mentality is great, but Top 5 guys also need to be able to hit shots. The #4 and #5 on this list not only cannot lead their team anywhere of consequence in the postseason (at least yet), apparently, but they both cannot play efficient basketball to save their lives. Your list is your list, but I'm not having anyone in my Top 5 whose best FG%age year is 43% (Lillard) or 45% (George), both of whom have career averages in both the R/S and the postseason below 43%. Lillard also plays piss-poor defense, and George's assist-to-turnover ratio is below average ... if you have them #4 and #5, the gulf between 1 - 3 and these guys must be massive.
That said, I think I'd have both of these two in the #8 - #12 range, though. |
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Christopher C
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 6292
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | 1. Curry
2. Durant
3. Lebron
4. Leonard
5. Westbrook
Durant is better then Lebron and has been for a couple years. Surprised to see some rank Lebron ahead of Durant. The top 2 are significantly better then everyone else imo. |
It's convenient that you picked "for a couple years" to coincide with Lebron losing in the finals, when for two years previous to that, he lead the Heat to back-to-back championships. He didn't have some kind of personal drop-off after he won those two titles. In fact, a lot of people were saying he should have been the Finals MVP last year even though his team lost the series. That's how good he was. Lebron James has much more responsibility than Kevin Durant does because Durant plays with Westbrook. By the way, last season Durant only played in 27 games and the Thunder missed the playoffs. Isn't actually playing in the games part of being "better"? Lebron is more durable than Durant. KD is a fabulous player, but Curry and Lebron are the best two players in the league. |
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Fruscas
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Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 5130
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | sublimedominion wrote: | Curry
Lebron
Kawhi
Westbrook
Durant |
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Dave20
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Christopher C wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | 1. Curry
2. Durant
3. Lebron
4. Leonard
5. Westbrook
Durant is better then Lebron and has been for a couple years. Surprised to see some rank Lebron ahead of Durant. The top 2 are significantly better then everyone else imo. |
It's convenient that you picked "for a couple years" to coincide with Lebron losing in the finals, when for two years previous to that, he lead the Heat to back-to-back championships. He didn't have some kind of personal drop-off after he won those two titles. In fact, a lot of people were saying he should have been the Finals MVP last year even though his team lost the series. That's how good he was. Lebron James has much more responsibility than Kevin Durant does because Durant plays with Westbrook. By the way, last season Durant only played in 27 games and the Thunder missed the playoffs. Isn't actually playing in the games part of being "better"? Lebron is more durable than Durant. KD is a fabulous player, but Curry and Lebron are the best two players in the league. |
Lebron plays in the weaker eastern conference and Wade was a top 5 player when he won those titles. |
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