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Aussiesuede
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | McCrory has repeatedly said that banning transgender women — whom he calls “men” — from women’s bathrooms protects women and girls from predators.
During Keisling’s visit to the state capitol on Monday, she joined several other activists who stopped at the governor’s office advocating for the law’s repeal. And like others in the capitol, she had to make another stop.
| Quote: | “I used the women’s room in the governor’s office,” she wrote in a post. “Governor McCrory can’t even enforce his law in his house. I was a guest of the state of North Carolina, so guests get to use the bathrooms.”
“It was uneventful,” she explained. “No one was bothered, because when I go to the bathroom, I do my business, I mind my own business, and then I go about my business.”
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Women saw her enter the restroom without showing any concern, Keisling said, and a state police officer nearby also didn’t speak up. Keisling said she told a group of about 20 people in the capitol rotunda what she had done — while the officer stood in immediate earshot — but the cop did nothing.
| Quote: | | “They are not even enforcing this stupid law in state office buildings, which is where it applies,” she said, adding that “they can’t enforce this. How many tourists and lobbyists carry their birth certificate when they go to capitol?” Keisling asked. “If they are going to check my birth certificate, they damn well check everybody’s birth certificate. And if they check my anatomy, they have to check everybody else’s. That is how this country works — laws have to be enforced equally.” |
According to the law, restrooms in government-run buildings may only be used by those with a corresponding sex on their birth certificate at the time of birth.
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Transgenered Guest of NC Governor Uses "Womens" Restroom Without Incident
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Schilling accuses his former co-workers at ESPN of racism and claims that being a Republican was against ESPN's culture. Lovely.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Across the country, conservative groups are working to pass anti-LGBT legislation that would bar transgender people the right to use public restrooms. The faulty logic at play is that transgender people are simply dressing up as the opposite gender to gain access to young boys and girls.
This. Is. Not. Happening.
But rather than take a moment of reflection and realize that what’s really at work here is regular old transphobia and fear-mongering being used to hit back at the LGBT community for having scored a number of recent victories at the state and federal level, conservatives are trying to invent the problem to justify their barbaric solution. For an obvious example, look no further than designated hate group American Family Association, whose director of governmental affairs, Sandy Rios, just admitted that her organization has been sending men into women’s bathrooms at Target in the hopes of eliciting a reaction.
http://addictinginfo.org/2016/05/02/christian-group-admits-to-sending-men-into-womens-bathrooms-to-scare-you-into-hating-trans-people/ |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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For the record, while I don't like laws that say that men can go into the ladies room, I also don't like the proposed laws that are trying to ban it.
Let the existing laws stand. If a private business doesn't want to allow men into the ladies room, they should be able to keep them out. A Trans person should be able to go in and use it without anyone knowing. If it's an issue, then go to the other restroom.
For government restrooms, either make male and female restrooms, or just make one unisex restroom. Creating all these extra laws just gives government more power in our lives. |
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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It amazes me how an intelligent species allows itself to pay attention to complete and utter uselessness of a subject like this. It amazes me that the people with even some basic semblance of intelligence has allowed this to seep into our life whether it being shopping at a retail store, or sports.
We now have to conform to mentally ill people and a lifestyle that is confusing and utterly ridiculous. When someones ethnicity isn't enough, someone's lifestyle now has to be catered to. I can't believe this, seriously. What a waste of time and energy.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think this is that complicated, but I don't think it is that simple either.
And I understand why some folks would have reservations and I don't think it ALWAYS comes from a position of hate (although, I know that's the typical lefty mantra these days).
For instance, I think it is perfectly reasonable for a parent to feel concern seeing a man walk in to the women's bathroom behind their daughter. I might expect a parent to also feel concern seeing a woman following their son in to the men's room, but it is reasonable that a parent would have more concern of the former than the latter.
Here's the problem. You can't prove trans. So you basically must assume the position that everyone is trans.
So here is the position people are going to be put in. If they see a man, following their 12-year old daughter in the to the women's bathroom, there are only two options you're putting that parent in now.
If the parent acts as a result, either a) they are going to be a bigot or b) they're going to save their daughter from being assaulted.
There's no other outcome for a parent who acts in that scenario.
In any case, this is a difficult thing to legislate, because you can't prove trans. Therefore, trans has nothing to do with any law, any policy changes will just have to eliminate gender entirely as a basis for separation/consideration.
Is that good? Not sure. It would be good for trans folks though, for sure. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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This irrational fear reminds me of when deranged parents used to order their kids out of the swimming pool when a black kid got in the water. It's as if there exists some microvirus that works it's way through a persons body in mere seconds and renders them brain dead for a matter of minutes. 
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | This irrational fear reminds me of when deranged parents used to order their kids out of the swimming pool when a black kid got in the water. It's as if there exists some microvirus that works it's way through a persons body in mere seconds and renders them brain dead for a matter of minutes. |
You really think it is irrational, for a parent to feel concerned seeing a shifty looking man entering the ladies room their young daughter just went in to?
I don't think that's irrational, I think that's rather rational.
The issue is going to be -- people being able to discern a shifty looking man, from just a man, from a trans. What does a shifty looking man LOOK like? What does a man look like? What does a trans look like? All could look the same.
So I think where it puts some folks in an uncomfortable position, is that if they go and do something about the man entering the women's room after their daughter, then they are either going to be an irrational deranged brain dead bigot infected with a microvirus or save their kid from an assault. There's no other outcome. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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As a parent of a transgender kid, I can tell you there are books to be written about what many of you don't know, what you fear, and the desire to make the world fit our narrow perspectives.
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Gawd, Its the "slippery slope" garbage people spouted about gay marriage all over again.
The Helen Lovejoy meme was made for this.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | Gawd, Its the "slippery slope" garbage people spouted about gay marriage all over again.
The Helen Lovejoy meme was made for this. |
Just curious, if there were no such thing as a transgendered person, would you support or oppose separate bathrooms?
If you'd support separate bathrooms for men and women -- why?
For the record, I have no issue with a transgendered person using the bathroom they feel most comfortable with, I only have an issue with a non-trans person using a restroom facility not designated for their gender, particularly, with men using women's facilities more so than the other way around. |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Gawd, Its the "slippery slope" garbage people spouted about gay marriage all over again.
The Helen Lovejoy meme was made for this. |
Just curious, if there were no such thing as a transgendered person, would you support or oppose separate bathrooms?
If you'd support separate bathrooms for men and women -- why?
For the record, I have no issue with a transgendered person using the bathroom they feel most comfortable with, I only have an issue with a non-trans person using a restroom facility not designated for their gender, particularly, with men using women's facilities more so than the other way around. |
Just make'em all unisex.*shrugs*
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Gawd, Its the "slippery slope" garbage people spouted about gay marriage all over again.
The Helen Lovejoy meme was made for this. |
Just curious, if there were no such thing as a transgendered person, would you support or oppose separate bathrooms?
If you'd support separate bathrooms for men and women -- why?
For the record, I have no issue with a transgendered person using the bathroom they feel most comfortable with, I only have an issue with a non-trans person using a restroom facility not designated for their gender, particularly, with men using women's facilities more so than the other way around. |
Just make'em all unisex.*shrugs* |
What if women are uncomfortable with men being in the same public restroom?
Would they be considered bigots? |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief.
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
I don't see how that is related at all to this discussion. Is there even a single "men's shelter" in the country? DV shelters for battered women are quite a bit different than restrooms don't you think? |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | Gawd, Its the "slippery slope" garbage people spouted about gay marriage all over again.
The Helen Lovejoy meme was made for this. |
Make you wonder about just how many of these worry-warts have gender specific restrooms in their homes? You pay them a visit and there's a sign next to the door that reads "Womens restroom upstairs and Mens Restroom down the hall. They wouldn't want to chance little Jenny catching Pa sitting on the can. She'd never recover from that and would have to be committed to the rubber room ward.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
I don't see how that is related at all to this discussion. Is there even a single "men's shelter" in the country? DV shelters for battered women are quite a bit different than restrooms don't you think? |
There are mens shelters, and there are also unisex shelters.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
I don't see how that is related at all to this discussion. Is there even a single "men's shelter" in the country? DV shelters for battered women are quite a bit different than restrooms don't you think? |
There are mens shelters, and there are also unisex shelters. |
Men's shelters for DV? Learn something new every day.. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
I don't see how that is related at all to this discussion. Is there even a single "men's shelter" in the country? DV shelters for battered women are quite a bit different than restrooms don't you think? |
There are mens shelters, and there are also unisex shelters. |
Men's shelters for DV? Learn something new every day.. |
That wasn't the question, but yes, there are a few fledgling ones, mostly for gay men who would be at risk in traditional shelters.
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
I don't see how that is related at all to this discussion. Is there even a single "men's shelter" in the country? DV shelters for battered women are quite a bit different than restrooms don't you think? |
There are mens shelters, and there are also unisex shelters. |
Men's shelters for DV? Learn something new every day.. |
That wasn't the question, but yes, there are a few fledgling ones, mostly for gay men who would be at risk in traditional shelters. |
That makes more sense. Thanks. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I went into the men's room at my office this afternoon. There was a woman standing there. Apparently, someone on my floor had to give a urine sample, and the woman was the collector. She sputtered out an explanation, but I didn't care. I was guzzling coffee all day, and I wouldn't have cared if there was an alligator in the restroom.
As I returned to my office, feeling much less stressed, I told the receptionist that I felt like I was shopping at Target.
That's about how seriously I take the matter. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | Ringfinger im not gonna play "semantics tango" with you. IMO,This is dumb issue, it honestly shouldn't be an issue. The whole "Buh-buh-buh-the children" or whatever dumbass doomsday scenario people want to spout to make a mountain out of this is just dumb.
Just let the transgender folks live their (bleep) life and be able take a piss in peace, good (bleep) grief. |
It's not a semantics issue. I already said trans people should be allowed to use whatever bathroom they are comfortable with.
They should also be allowed to use whatever shelters they are comfortable with.
My concern, then, is having to allow non trans men in to the bathrooms, shelters, etc, designated for women.
Are you in favor of abolishing women's shelters too, in favor of unisex shelters? |
I don't see how that is related at all to this discussion. Is there even a single "men's shelter" in the country? DV shelters for battered women are quite a bit different than restrooms don't you think? |
Why wouldn't it be related? (And for the record, yes there are men's shelters in this country. Google search will reveal a few). But that is neither here nor there.
And yes, I do think they are different, but the premise is the same.
Would you allow a person who says they identify as a woman (but was biologically born a man) into a women's shelter?
I would.
But you have to take the person who identifies as a woman at their word since there is no test per se. So I think that's where it gets a little... challenging.
So I'm opposed to any kind of legislation or policy that allows men into women's facilities of any kind whether they be bathrooms or shelters. I say, leave it the way it is. In public domain, bathrooms for men, bathrooms for women, and the trans folks can just use whatever one they feel most comfortable using. If you see what appears to be a non trans man entering a shelter or women's bathroom, he should be asked to leave or removed.
I just don't think this is something you can effectively manage via policy.
It's concerning that so many people want policies and laws and want to be controlled like this. Sometimes, things are fine the way they are. I know we get bored sometimes but it's not necessary to over legislate things. |
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DaMuleRules
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