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Gimme_the_rock
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Anyone else use the single occupancy womens restrooms when the mens is occupied?


I just did the other day after being in traffic for an hour and a half and foolishly emptying my hydro flask with 45 minutes before I could exit and get to a KFC.

I have to admit, I was actually very scared of being caught.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Homophobic Hypocrisy


It's disturbing to me, how the left continues to use minorities and the disadvantaged as props simply to fuel their own "look at me the open minded guy" agenda.

Take it from a minority. We see right through it. We talk about it. Oh but one shalt not question the open minded guys love all equally but not really.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Homophobic Hypocrisy


It's disturbing to me, how the left continues to use minorities and the disadvantaged as props simply to fuel their own "look at me the open minded guy" agenda.

Take it from a minority. We see right through it. We talk about it. Oh but one shalt not question the open minded guys love all equally but not really.


Take it from a human. When you say "we" you mean "I". You speak less to minority issues than the Democratic party by a wide margin.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Honestly, as a TG, I'm glad people are talking about this, even though I happen to think it's a non-issue. All conservatives are doing by making a stink about this is raising awareness of transpeople and trans rights. So it's just doing me a favor the more people talk about it. The more people are aware of transgendered people, the less weird looks I get in public. No one is going to stop me from peeing in the women's room, so I'm not worried at all. So go ahead, whine about penises being in the women's room, all you're doing is speeding up progress on trans rights. Hell, you might even get society to progress to unisex bathrooms, good job accidentally moving society in the right direction, instead of trying to take it back to the glorious 50's.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Honestly, as a TG, I'm glad people are talking about this, even though I happen to think it's a non-issue. All conservatives are doing by making a stink about this is raising awareness of transpeople and trans rights. So it's just doing me a favor the more people talk about it. The more people are aware of transgendered people, the less weird looks I get in public. No one is going to stop me from peeing in the women's room, so I'm not worried at all. So go ahead, whine about penises being in the women's room, all you're doing is speeding up progress on trans rights.


You go girl. Literally.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
North Carolina law limiting protections to LGBT people violates federal civil rights protections and can't be enforced, The U.S. Justice Department said Wednesday.

The Justice Department's intervention puts the state in danger of losing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal school funding.

In a letter to Gov. Pat McCrory, the Justice Department put the state on notice that federal officials view the state law as violating federal Civil Rights Act protections barring workplace discrimination based on sex. Provisions of the state law directed at transgender state employees violate their anti-discrimination protections, the letter said.


Quote:

"The State is engaging in a pattern or practice of discrimination against transgender state employees and both you, in your official capacity, and the state are engaging in a pattern or practice of resistance



The letter effectively serves as a warning to the state to proceed at its own peril or risk being sued. It has not been uncommon during the administration of President Barack Obama for the Justice Department to weigh in on hot-button civil rights issues. In March, the department sharply discouraged state court administrators from jailing defendants who can't pay court fines for petty offenses. The letter to North Carolina doesn't have the force of law, but it puts the state on notice that its actions are being watched and run afoul of federal civil rights laws."


The letter seeks confirmation by Monday that "the State will not comply with or implement H.B. 2, and that it has notified employees of the State and public agencies that, consistent with federal law, they are permitted to access bathrooms and other facilities consistent with their gender identity."

The government could file a lawsuit to protect state employees from discrimination, the letter said. The Justice Department has also notified the 17-campus University of North Carolina system that the state law also violates Title IX of the Civil Rights Act, which bars discrimination in education based on sex. That could lead to North Carolina losing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal school funding.



Countdown Clock To North Carolina Tucking It's Tail Between It's Legs and Not Implementing This Silly Law has Started
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
Quote:
North Carolina law limiting protections to LGBT people violates federal civil rights protections and can't be enforced, The U.S. Justice Department said Wednesday.

The Justice Department's intervention puts the state in danger of losing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal school funding.

In a letter to Gov. Pat McCrory, the Justice Department put the state on notice that federal officials view the state law as violating federal Civil Rights Act protections barring workplace discrimination based on sex. Provisions of the state law directed at transgender state employees violate their anti-discrimination protections, the letter said.


Quote:

"The State is engaging in a pattern or practice of discrimination against transgender state employees and both you, in your official capacity, and the state are engaging in a pattern or practice of resistance



The letter effectively serves as a warning to the state to proceed at its own peril or risk being sued. It has not been uncommon during the administration of President Barack Obama for the Justice Department to weigh in on hot-button civil rights issues. In March, the department sharply discouraged state court administrators from jailing defendants who can't pay court fines for petty offenses. The letter to North Carolina doesn't have the force of law, but it puts the state on notice that its actions are being watched and run afoul of federal civil rights laws."


The letter seeks confirmation by Monday that "the State will not comply with or implement H.B. 2, and that it has notified employees of the State and public agencies that, consistent with federal law, they are permitted to access bathrooms and other facilities consistent with their gender identity."

The government could file a lawsuit to protect state employees from discrimination, the letter said. The Justice Department has also notified the 17-campus University of North Carolina system that the state law also violates Title IX of the Civil Rights Act, which bars discrimination in education based on sex. That could lead to North Carolina losing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal school funding.



Countdown Clock To North Carolina Tucking It's Tail Between It's Legs and Not Implementing This Silly Law has Started


Nice!

Watch the bigots start crying about state's rights now.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Anyone else use the single occupancy womens restrooms when the mens is occupied?


I just did the other day after being in traffic for an hour and a half and foolishly emptying my hydro flask with 45 minutes before I could exit and get to a KFC.

I have to admit, I was actually very scared of being caught.



I was in a college library late night, when ran into some girl that I had dated. When I asked her what was up, she said she just got out of the women's room.

"Was it nice and clean?"

"Yeah, I think so."

"OK, let's go check it out."

So we entered the women's room, where one girl was washing her hands. The girl started laughing. I then proceeded to read the graffiti on the bathroom stalls. It's different than the nasty, violent, racist, homophobic, misogynistic diatribes and jokes that guys write, in fact, it was more like Dear Abby, where some girl would pose a question and other girls would answer.

We went to the men's room afterward. It only seemed fair.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:54 pm    Post subject:

I'm not so sure that the DoJ has a good legal case. It would be interesting to see how it plays out in court.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Homophobic Hypocrisy


It's disturbing to me, how the left continues to use minorities and the disadvantaged as props simply to fuel their own "look at me the open minded guy" agenda.

Take it from a minority. We see right through it. We talk about it. Oh but one shalt not question the open minded guys love all equally but not really.


Well that point of that went flying right over your head if all you have to say is to make a lame attempt to knock Liberals.
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject:

Some heat on Target after some weirdo was filming a girl in the womens changing room.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/girl-caught-man-recording-her-in-target-changing-room-frisco-police-say.html/

Do they really have "womens" changing rooms? I thought they just have generic changing rooms but not sure.

This guy is clearly not transgendered, he should not have been allowed in there IMO.
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Some heat on Target after some weirdo was filming a girl in the womens changing room.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/girl-caught-man-recording-her-in-target-changing-room-frisco-police-say.html/

Do they really have "womens" changing rooms? I thought they just have generic changing rooms but not sure.

This guy is clearly not transgendered, he should not have been allowed in there IMO.


Wait, how do we know he's not transgendered?
On a serious note, couldn't he claim that he was transitioning in court?
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Pervs gonna be Pervs. Straights pervs will perv on the opposite sex. Homosexual pervs will perv on the same sex. Pedo pervs will perv on kids.



Obviously the only solution is to shut down all public bathrooms and changing rooms. It' the only way we can all be protected from the pervs.




Quote:
It's been nearly two years since Christina Walker and her little girl uncovered what turned out to be a massive spy cam operation in Pleasant Prairie. The man and woman behind the plot are now in prison.

The nightmare started two years ago when her 10-year-old daughter was recorded, fully nude, by a pair of hidden video cameras.

"I was videotaped in my locker room getting dressed after swim practice," the child recently said while testifying at the Capitol in Madison.

The woman who put the cameras there told police the reason she did it is complicated.


Perv #1 (Woman Filming Children)




Quote:
Corey Yoder had a feeling something weird was going on.

About a year ago, Yoder was working out at the L.A. Fitness club in St. Paul's Midway neighborhood. He says it felt like a young man sitting on a workout machine holding a phone was filming him.

"I wanted to go over and say 'Hey, can I see your phone?' But I didn't want to look like a gym bro-type of guy, you know, and yank the phone out of his hand in case I was completely wrong,” Yoder said.

Then Yoder recently got a call from a friend who stumbled upon a YouTube video.

“Holy cow. I was right. This guy was filming,” Yoder said.

In the video, Yoder is seen lifting weights. The camera zooms in on Yoder’s crotch and follows him as he walks around.

And there are more. Thirty-six videos posted by the same person, all of which zoom in on men's crotches -- while they work out, while they dress in the locker room, while they relax in the sauna.


Perv # 2 (Men Filming Men)




Quote:

Cullen Casey Schmidt, 17 of Adairsville, turned himself in to the Bartow County Jail this week after being charged with placing an iPhone camera inside girl locker room and restrooms at Adarisville High School. Reports said that “several” videos of persons in the locker room and restroom were uncovered on the phone.

Schmidt is charged with six counts of eavesdropping and one count of sexual exploitation of a child, all felonies.

The sexual exploitation charge stemmed from one of the videos containing nudity of a minor.

Reports went on to say that one victim was captured changing clothes for class in the weight-training room restroom, and another victim’s exposed body part was recovered.

A third victim being recorded didn’t show nudity, but it did show her in her underwear.

Two victims were recorded changing clothes in the locker room.

A sixth victim, a teacher, was using the weight-training room restroom found the phone “affixed to the drain pipe”



Perv #3 (Boy Filming Women)



Quote:


A former Chesterfield police officer admits he's guilty of recording men going to the bathroom and posting it to his porn site.

FOX Files investigator Chris Hayes busted him in 2014 and was the only reporter in the courtroom today.

While in that courtroom we learned David E. Cerna wasn't just videotaping men at the Mobile on the Run on Clarkson, he also admitted hiding a video camera in the his police department locker room.



Perv #4 ( Male Cop Filming Fellow Male Cops in Lockerroom)



Quote:

Officials at Towson University say the school's head diving coach has been indicted on charges in connection with a cellphone found in a women's locker room.

Forty-three-year-old Maureen Mead was indicted by a grand jury on Monday. According to the university, she faces charges of interception of communication, a "peeping tom" violation and altering physical evidence.

Last month, school officials said team members found the phone containing videos of the student-athletes changing inside the locker room.




Quote:
Officials at Towson University say the school's head diving coach has been indicted on charges in connection with a cellphone found in a women's locker room. Forty-three-year-old Maureen Mead was indicted by a grand jury on Monday. According to the university, she faces charges of interception of communication, a "peeping tom" violation and altering physical evidence. Last month, school officials said team members found the phone containing videos of the student-athletes changing inside the locker room.



Perv #5 - Woman Filming Women
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Last edited by Aussiesuede on Sat May 07, 2016 4:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
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shnxx
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
Pervs gonna be Pervs. Straights pervs will perv on the opposite sex. Homosexual pervs will perv on the same sex. Pedo pervs will perv on kids.



Obviously the only solution is to shut down all public bathrooms and changing rooms. It' the only way we can all be protected from the pervs.




Quote:
It's been nearly two years since Christina Walker and her little girl uncovered what turned out to be a massive spy cam operation in Pleasant Prairie. The man and woman behind the plot are now in prison.

The nightmare started two years ago when her 10-year-old daughter was recorded, fully nude, by a pair of hidden video cameras.

"I was videotaped in my locker room getting dressed after swim practice," the child recently said while testifying at the Capitol in Madison.

The woman who put the cameras there told police the reason she did it is complicated.


Perv #1 (Woman Filming Children)




Quote:
Corey Yoder had a feeling something weird was going on.

About a year ago, Yoder was working out at the L.A. Fitness club in St. Paul's Midway neighborhood. He says it felt like a young man sitting on a workout machine holding a phone was filming him.

"I wanted to go over and say 'Hey, can I see your phone?' But I didn't want to look like a gym bro-type of guy, you know, and yank the phone out of his hand in case I was completely wrong,” Yoder said.

Then Yoder recently got a call from a friend who stumbled upon a YouTube video.

“Holy cow. I was right. This guy was filming,” Yoder said.

In the video, Yoder is seen lifting weights. The camera zooms in on Yoder’s crotch and follows him as he walks around.

And there are more. Thirty-six videos posted by the same person, all of which zoom in on men's crotches -- while they work out, while they dress in the locker room, while they relax in the sauna.


Perv # 2 (Men Filming Men)




Quote:

Cullen Casey Schmidt, 17 of Adairsville, turned himself in to the Bartow County Jail this week after being charged with placing an iPhone camera inside girl locker room and restrooms at Adarisville High School. Reports said that “several” videos of persons in the locker room and restroom were uncovered on the phone.

Schmidt is charged with six counts of eavesdropping and one count of sexual exploitation of a child, all felonies.

The sexual exploitation charge stemmed from one of the videos containing nudity of a minor.

Reports went on to say that one victim was captured changing clothes for class in the weight-training room restroom, and another victim’s exposed body part was recovered.

A third victim being recorded didn’t show nudity, but it did show her in her underwear.

Two victims were recorded changing clothes in the locker room.

A sixth victim, a teacher, was using the weight-training room restroom found the phone “affixed to the drain pipe”



Perv #3 (Boy Filming Women)


I agree that pervs will be pervs, but if you make rules that say pervs who are indistinguishable from genuine transgenders by eye or by law, wouldn't it open doors for more pervs to act as pervs more frequently?

I mean, using what criteria are you able to say that one person is a genuine transgender and another is not?
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject:

shnxx wrote:

I agree that pervs will be pervs, but if you make rules that say pervs who are indistinguishable from genuine transgenders by eye or by law, wouldn't it open doors for more pervs to act as pervs more frequently?

I mean, using what criteria are you able to say that one person is a genuine transgender and another is not?


Ahem, no. Pervs are pervs because of the fact they are pervs. Their gender identity has nothing to do with it. No matter what the law is, they'll still be pervs.

You can't guarantee that every one who looks like a male has male genetalia unless you ask them to drop their pants. You can't say for certain that every one who looks like a female has female genetalia unless you ask them to drop their pants. The term is called "Passable, and a lot of cross-dressers easily fool most people.

Back in the 90's there was a nightclub in Honolulu called Maharaja's that many locals knew was frequented by tons of Asian cross dressers. We use to take misguided buddies "not in the know" who we knew to be 'uncontrollable horndoggers' there because we knew they couldn't resist a "Too easy" hookup. We've tons of pics of those guys kissing/making out with these dang gorgeous crossdressers because they thought it was a girl. To the naked eye, you couldn't tell what was lurking in his pants. In a dress, with a bra, an Asian fella that liked to dress like a woman looked just like a woman to 95% of the people in the room. They'd spent years using the womens restroom. The "born women" survivede just fine. The horror.
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Dave Hogg, Sportswriter for more than 20 years

Quote:
I covered the WNBA for a decade, and we always had post-game access to the locker room. Most of the players stayed in uniform, while others showered and wore robes. The notion that men aren't allowed in women's locker rooms is a myth.

(Just to clarify, that is still entirely true of the WNBA. The only reason I said it in the past tense is that the Detroit Shock moved to Tulsa, so I no longer cover the league.)



Male Reporters in Female WNBA Locker rooms is routine
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject:

shnxx wrote:
I agree that pervs will be pervs, but if you make rules that say pervs who are indistinguishable from genuine transgenders by eye or by law, wouldn't it open doors for more pervs to act as pervs more frequently?

I mean, using what criteria are you able to say that one person is a genuine transgender and another is not?


I think your last question is why it's not so simple for me. In either scenario, there is a potential price to pay.

On the one hand, if you abolish all gender specific bathrooms, you MIGHT reduce some of the "pervy" type behaviors from occurring as there'd be no guarantee your desired victim type would be in a gender neutral bathroom.

On the other hand, if you kept the status quo (my preference), and just said, transgendered people can use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in, you'll have scenarios where a transgender might be confused with a man entering the women's room and there is an encounter. I'd say those encounters that do occur is an unfortunate but reasonable price to be paid given the circumstances. I'm asian/hispanic, and most white/black people think I'm asian and describe me as such. I can't expect that they'd know what I am. I see it as part of the territory of being racially ambiguous. And so I see it the same way for a transgender. Part of the price to pay for being gender ambiguous is that sometimes there will be misunderstandings. Instead of trying to build this world where there cannot be any misunderstandings (which simply isn't feasible even by Bernie's standards), some of us folks where who we are isn't clearly distinguishable, just need to accept it. I accept that it is not always clear, and as long as you don't hate me for it, hurt me, or deny me basic rights, I'm totally sympathetic to it.

Now on the first scenario, if you abolish all gender specific restrooms, I wonder why the same rules cannot (or rather, should not then) apply to shelters. Why shouldn't we then, also push for abolishing of gender specific shelters?

Or if we choose not to, how shall a safe haven handle that situation? Abused wife enters shelter. A man that does not appear transgendered shows up and unbeknownst to shelter, is the abusing husband. He is denied access. He says he is transgendered. Now what SHOULD happen? I really don't have an answer. Or maybe we just wait for it to happen a bunch of times before dealing with it? I dunno.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
shnxx wrote:

I agree that pervs will be pervs, but if you make rules that say pervs who are indistinguishable from genuine transgenders by eye or by law, wouldn't it open doors for more pervs to act as pervs more frequently?

I mean, using what criteria are you able to say that one person is a genuine transgender and another is not?


Ahem, no. Pervs are pervs because of the fact they are pervs. Their gender identity has nothing to do with it. No matter what the law is, they'll still be pervs.

You can't guarantee that every one who looks like a male has male genetalia unless you ask them to drop their pants. You can't say for certain that every one who looks like a female has female genetalia unless you ask them to drop their pants. The term is called "Passable, and a lot of cross-dressers easily fool most people.

Back in the 90's there was a nightclub in Honolulu called Maharaja's that many locals knew was frequented by tons of Asian cross dressers. We use to take misguided buddies "not in the know" who we knew to be 'uncontrollable horndoggers' there because we knew they couldn't resist a "Too easy" hookup. We've tons of pics of those guys kissing/making out with these dang gorgeous crossdressers because they thought it was a girl. To the naked eye, you couldn't tell what was lurking in his pants. In a dress, with a bra, an Asian fella that liked to dress like a woman looked just like a woman to 95% of the people in the room. They'd spent years using the womens restroom. The "born women" survivede just fine. The horror.


Okay, so what criteria do you think that society should use to distinguish between a real transgender and a fake one?
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 8:45 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
shnxx wrote:
I agree that pervs will be pervs, but if you make rules that say pervs who are indistinguishable from genuine transgenders by eye or by law, wouldn't it open doors for more pervs to act as pervs more frequently?

I mean, using what criteria are you able to say that one person is a genuine transgender and another is not?


I think your last question is why it's not so simple for me. In either scenario, there is a potential price to pay.

On the one hand, if you abolish all gender specific bathrooms, you MIGHT reduce some of the "pervy" type behaviors from occurring as there'd be no guarantee your desired victim type would be in a gender neutral bathroom.

On the other hand, if you kept the status quo (my preference), and just said, transgendered people can use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in, you'll have scenarios where a transgender might be confused with a man entering the women's room and there is an encounter. I'd say those encounters that do occur is an unfortunate but reasonable price to be paid given the circumstances. I'm asian/hispanic, and most white/black people think I'm asian and describe me as such. I can't expect that they'd know what I am. I see it as part of the territory of being racially ambiguous. And so I see it the same way for a transgender. Part of the price to pay for being gender ambiguous is that sometimes there will be misunderstandings. Instead of trying to build this world where there cannot be any misunderstandings (which simply isn't feasible even by Bernie's standards), some of us folks where who we are isn't clearly distinguishable, just need to accept it. I accept that it is not always clear, and as long as you don't hate me for it, hurt me, or deny me basic rights, I'm totally sympathetic to it.

Now on the first scenario, if you abolish all gender specific restrooms, I wonder why the same rules cannot (or rather, should not then) apply to shelters. Why shouldn't we then, also push for abolishing of gender specific shelters?

Or if we choose not to, how shall a safe haven handle that situation? Abused wife enters shelter. A man that does not appear transgendered shows up and unbeknownst to shelter, is the abusing husband. He is denied access. He says he is transgendered. Now what SHOULD happen? I really don't have an answer. Or maybe we just wait for it to happen a bunch of times before dealing with it? I dunno.


If the determination of a person's gender is solely based on the individual's subjective feelings, I think there are many potential troubling scenarios.
Unscrupulous men could take advantage of existing laws that are beneficial to women by claiming that they are women.
I guess we shall see if this happens or not.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject:

shnxx wrote:
If the determination of a person's gender is solely based on the individual's subjective feelings, I think there are many potential troubling scenarios.
Unscrupulous men could take advantage of existing laws that are beneficial to women by claiming that they are women.
I guess we shall see if this happens or not.


Ok, but how can gender be determined? Outside of DNA testing, isn't it always subjective? That's why I think this whole thing is not so simple.

Either we feel that there is good reason to have gender designated facilities (whether they be public bathrooms or shelters) or we feel there is no good reason to have them.

In either case, troubling scenarios are inevitable.

That's why I prefer to keep the status quo and don't agree with the idea of adopting Target's policy everywhere. Yes, there will be some situations where there is confusion, but that comes with the territory. I deal with it every day, as a result of being racially ambiguous. I really enjoy having two cultures that I'm a part of, but, I also understand that it can, at times, lead to confusion. And in a world where most people aren't racially ambiguous, I understand why people might assume I'm of one race and not another.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
shnxx wrote:
If the determination of a person's gender is solely based on the individual's subjective feelings, I think there are many potential troubling scenarios.
Unscrupulous men could take advantage of existing laws that are beneficial to women by claiming that they are women.
I guess we shall see if this happens or not.


Ok, but how can gender be determined? Outside of DNA testing, isn't it always subjective? That's why I think this whole thing is not so simple.

Either we feel that there is good reason to have gender designated facilities (whether they be public bathrooms or shelters) or we feel there is no good reason to have them.

In either case, troubling scenarios are inevitable.

That's why I prefer to keep the status quo and don't agree with the idea of adopting Target's policy everywhere. Yes, there will be some situations where there is confusion, but that comes with the territory. I deal with it every day, as a result of being racially ambiguous. I really enjoy having two cultures that I'm a part of, but, I also understand that it can, at times, lead to confusion. And in a world where most people aren't racially ambiguous, I understand why people might assume I'm of one race and not another.


For legal purposes, I think we should have objective standards for gender. This takes out concerns about subjective determination being used to subvert the intent of the law by unscrupulous individuals.

For practical purposes, no change is needed. As most people agree, bathroom use is not strictly regulated or enforced currently. Most people using male bathroom are males and most people using female bathrooms are females.

I'm more concerned about the legal implication of making determination of gender completely subjective, than practical considerations regarding how to determine gender in everyday life. If there are crossdressers, pre- and post-op transgenders, or individuals whose looks betray their chromosomes, it is of no concern to other people what gender they are in everyday life.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject:

how about banning phones from the locker rooms.? is it possible to do that?
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject:

shnxx wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
shnxx wrote:

I agree that pervs will be pervs, but if you make rules that say pervs who are indistinguishable from genuine transgenders by eye or by law, wouldn't it open doors for more pervs to act as pervs more frequently?

I mean, using what criteria are you able to say that one person is a genuine transgender and another is not?


Ahem, no. Pervs are pervs because of the fact they are pervs. Their gender identity has nothing to do with it. No matter what the law is, they'll still be pervs.

You can't guarantee that every one who looks like a male has male genetalia unless you ask them to drop their pants. You can't say for certain that every one who looks like a female has female genetalia unless you ask them to drop their pants. The term is called "Passable, and a lot of cross-dressers easily fool most people.

Back in the 90's there was a nightclub in Honolulu called Maharaja's that many locals knew was frequented by tons of Asian cross dressers. We use to take misguided buddies "not in the know" who we knew to be 'uncontrollable horndoggers' there because we knew they couldn't resist a "Too easy" hookup. We've tons of pics of those guys kissing/making out with these dang gorgeous crossdressers because they thought it was a girl. To the naked eye, you couldn't tell what was lurking in his pants. In a dress, with a bra, an Asian fella that liked to dress like a woman looked just like a woman to 95% of the people in the room. They'd spent years using the womens restroom. The "born women" survivede just fine. The horror.


Okay, so what criteria do you think that society should use to distinguish between a real transgender and a fake one?


That ones easy - Their word. If someone declares they are transgendered, and walks into the restroom of their choosing? End of story.

If after walking into the restroom of their choosing they make use of the facilities for it's designed purpose? End of story.

If someone in the restroom is nude or otherwise disrobed whilst in the process of making use of the facilities for it's designed purpose and they are noticed by another person? Well this is an area where America needs to just grow the eff up and join the rest of the modern world. Seeing a nude body of either sex simply is not, nor should be, a life altering experience. It's stupid that so many Americans insist on acting like children when it comes to brief nudity. Seriously, they need to grow the eff up.

If someone engages in illegally perverted actions whilst loitering in the restroom and not making use of the facilities for it's designed purpose? Prosecute them for their perverted actions just as is the case already. End of story.
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Last edited by Aussiesuede on Sun May 08, 2016 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
shnxx wrote:

Okay, so what criteria do you think that society should use to distinguish between a real transgender and a fake one?


That ones easy - Their word. If someone declares they are transgendered, and walks into the restroom of their choosing? End of story.

If after walking into the restroom of their choosing they make use of the facilities for it's designed purpose? End of story.

If someone in the restroom is nude or otherwise disrobed whilst in the process of making use of the facilities for it's designed person and they are noticed by another person? Well this is an area where America needs to just grow the eff up and join the rest of the modern world. Seeing a nude body of either sex simply is not, nor should be, a life altering experience. It's stupid that so many Americans insist on acting like children when it comes to brief nudity. Seriously, they need to grow the eff up.

If someone engages in illegally perverted actions whilst loitering in the restroom and not making use of the facilities for it's designed purpose? Prosecute them for their perverted actions just as is the case already. End of story.


Yep. Pretty a much a no-brainer.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject:

shnxx wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
shnxx wrote:
If the determination of a person's gender is solely based on the individual's subjective feelings, I think there are many potential troubling scenarios.
Unscrupulous men could take advantage of existing laws that are beneficial to women by claiming that they are women.
I guess we shall see if this happens or not.


Ok, but how can gender be determined? Outside of DNA testing, isn't it always subjective? That's why I think this whole thing is not so simple.

Either we feel that there is good reason to have gender designated facilities (whether they be public bathrooms or shelters) or we feel there is no good reason to have them.

In either case, troubling scenarios are inevitable.

That's why I prefer to keep the status quo and don't agree with the idea of adopting Target's policy everywhere. Yes, there will be some situations where there is confusion, but that comes with the territory. I deal with it every day, as a result of being racially ambiguous. I really enjoy having two cultures that I'm a part of, but, I also understand that it can, at times, lead to confusion. And in a world where most people aren't racially ambiguous, I understand why people might assume I'm of one race and not another.


For legal purposes, I think we should have objective standards for gender. This takes out concerns about subjective determination being used to subvert the intent of the law by unscrupulous individuals.

For practical purposes, no change is needed. As most people agree, bathroom use is not strictly regulated or enforced currently. Most people using male bathroom are males and most people using female bathrooms are females.

I'm more concerned about the legal implication of making determination of gender completely subjective, than practical considerations regarding how to determine gender in everyday life. If there are crossdressers, pre- and post-op transgenders, or individuals whose looks betray their chromosomes, it is of no concern to other people what gender they are in everyday life.


I'm with you on the bolded as I too, am more concerned with precedence. I feel like a lot of folks, particularly the extremists, just do whatever sounds good.

Unfortunately though, the whole point of this discussion in some ways is that the definition of gender IS entirely subjective.

It's not always what you look or sound like. It's not always what you were genetically born as. It's what you want it to be and what you feel most comfortable being.

So as I said in another thread, there is always a price to pay. If you want the definition to be strict and objective, there will be a lot of angry people but clear lines in the sand drawn. If you want it to be subjective, there will still be some angry people, but some happy people, and fuzzy lines in the sand drawn.
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