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bounty
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | Except now he has an EXCUSE to put up very avg. #'s |
14,7 and 6 is average?
Ok, Bounty. Ok. :roll: |
:roll: Not for a bench guy. |
Wait -
The average numbers for starting SF's are not 14, 7 and 6 Bounty.
Go ahead and do the research. There isn't any SF in the NBA apart from two or three that give a team more than 5+ rebounds and 5+ assists.
14, 7 and 6 are good numbers. You can piss on that all you want, but you are just full of it. |
i'll leave it at whatever you say. his production was no different than when healthy. We still lost with LO having "not avg #'s". So now what. More time to fit a square into a circle? This team is made up of underachievers and greens. Kobe, Mihm, Bynum are the only ones worth keeping. So b4 2nights game. Are we giving LO a built in excuse if he struggles, or has a negative effect on the game?
What teams have a PF as there "2nd option". B/c its not about ANY PF, its about comparing them to 2nd's or role etc.. I will let it rest. What cant be argued is that MY TEAM lost. With LO being anointed as the 2nd fiddle....again. I heard a lot of bleep how when he was back "I would see". Nope.
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | i'll leave it at whatever you say. his production was no different than when healthy. We still lost with LO having "not avg #'s". So now what. More time to fit a square into a circle? This team is made up of underachievers and greens. Kobe, Mihm, Bynum are the only ones worth keeping. So b4 2nights game. Are we giving LO a built in excuse if he struggles, or has a negative effect on the game |
No.
But we are saying that he played despite being injured.
He wasn't effected by the injury? Ofcourse he was. He only had 6 rebounds. He ussually has 10.
So you don't know what the (bleep) you are talking about, Bounty. Just like usual are saying the same old lines.
Just pathetic.
If you hurt your ribs that bad, I doubt you would be able to play basketball the same way. |
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Sage_10
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Although he has been sucking lately... props to Lamar for sucking it up and playing pretty decent considering his injury. |
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bounty
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | i'll leave it at whatever you say. his production was no different than when healthy. We still lost with LO having "not avg #'s". So now what. More time to fit a square into a circle? This team is made up of underachievers and greens. Kobe, Mihm, Bynum are the only ones worth keeping. So b4 2nights game. Are we giving LO a built in excuse if he struggles, or has a negative effect on the game |
No.
But we are saying that he played despite being injured.
He wasn't effected by the injury? Ofcourse he was. He only had 6 rebounds. He ussually has 10.
So you don't know what the (bleep) you are talking about, Bounty. Just like usual are saying the same old lines.
Just pathetic.
If you hurt your ribs that bad, I doubt you would be able to play basketball the same way. |
What do you mean? I dont get it, hes not hurt enough to collect 6 rb's yet too injured to what..........................My point is that ..YES props to lo, he played hurt. 1st time in lakers gear. But his production Pre-injury was that of injury. So what.......................
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But his production Pre-injury was that of injury |
Incorrect
He was off by 4 rebounds.
Clearly he tried hard. If he played more games with the effort he showed last night, he would be a much better player. |
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bounty
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | But his production Pre-injury was that of injury |
Incorrect
He was off by 4 rebounds.
Clearly he tried hard. If he played more games with the effort he showed last night, he would be a much better player. |
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postandpivot
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | Lamar gave a gutty performance. I just got through reading Emplay's latest article and have to say I think that sums it up, at least about sums up my feelings on Lamar. People are expecting him to be something that he's not (a scorer) and as a result of that they aren't appreciating what he is (a solid all around team player). He gave a good showing tonight.
I did want to pipe in really quick, people talking about Kobe's glares at his teammates. While I think it's okay to get down on your teammates, this is the second time when he's just really been over the top and scowling at them during a game, and I don't think that is healthy for anyone. We had momentum on our side and Kobe went into a solo act and cost us the game, IMO. He had an awful shooting night, yet he forced shots. Then when his teammates would miss shots he'd scowl at them. That's the wrong way to handle a player being cold. A young guy like Sasha or Smush misses an open three pointer, and they feel bad, they might start to lose confidence. It doesn't help when the star player then adds insult to injury by showing them up in front of everyone, because now it makes them think about it more and applies more pressure on them to make those shots. It winds up being conter-productive.
With the way teams are double and triple teaming Kobe, he needs his teammates to hit open shots. But these guys aren't going to turn around over night. This is the talent he has aroun him and he has to learn to play with that. Kwame isn't going to magically grow soft hands, Lamar isn't going to suddenly start driving to his right, Sasha and Smush won't improve their consistantcy on any one night, Chris Mihm is going to pick up silly fouls. Over the course of time players might be able to improve on things, but it's not going to happen over night. When he gets so down on them he alienates himself from them, and that is bad for the team. A happy player who feels like he is contributing, feels better about themselves and his confidence will result in improved play. A player who is scared to make a mistake because he might get jumped on is going to make mistakes due to the added pressure.
Sorry to get off topic there, just wanted to respond to those comments. |
^^all that sounds fine and dandy. problem is, kobe is a killer offensive player, and a killer Scoring guard. if he was a pg, things would be different. since he's not. get ready for those scowls. it comes with the territory of him being such a great scorer.
he can figure out why grown men that play at the highest level cant consistently hit open shots during the game, when they hit them in practice(with the lights/ cameras off). its not like these guys are brick city in practice. you hear to many times they talk about how sasha is money in practice. and smush does some great things off the dribble in practice. even wafer from time to time. tired of hearing practice stories. another thing is this. if kobe gets up early and does extra stuff to perfect his already darn near perfect scoring game. he thinks to self. Why would sasha/smush not be their before he gets there to put in extra hours?.
you know why. because they're not elite players, and most likely never will be. to be elite you have to practice like an elite. its not just born talent/skill. somewhere along the line you have to put in a lot of excess hours. and I'm not saying the lakers aren't putting in some. but to kobe its not as much as he's putting in. and he's not the one missing on most nights. and he's not the one with open looks either. so he baffles him, when these guys consistently miss and dont know why. its because they are not as serious about making shots as he is.
the cold thing about it, is they may never be. so therefore he does have to wait for a slow growth. but most people like kobe cant wait that long. mjay did the same thing with his guys. eventually they ran off a hand full of rings and a pinky ring. So dont even worry about the kobe scowls. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Wait -
The average numbers for starting SF's are not 14, 7 and 6 Bounty.
Go ahead and do the research. There isn't any SF in the NBA apart from two or three that give a team more than 5+ rebounds and 5+ assists.
14, 7 and 6 are good numbers. You can piss on that all you want, but you are just full of it. |
ATL - Harrington (19/7/3)
BOS - Pierce (26/7/5)
CHA - Wallace (14/7/2)
CHI - Deng (13/6/2)
CLE - LBJ (31/7/7)
DAL - Howard (16/7/2)
DEN - 'Melo (26/5/3)
DET - Prince (15/4/2)
GSW - Dunleavy (11/5/3)
HOU - TMac (27/7/5)
IND - Peja (17/6/2)
LAC - Maggette (22/6/2)
LAL - Odom (14/9/5)
MEM - Battier (11/5/2)
MIA - Posey (8/5/1)
MIL - Simmons (13/5/2)
MIN - Hassell (9/3/2)
NJN - Jefferson (19/7/4)
NOK - Snyder (7/2/1)
NYK - Rose (12/3/3)
ORL - Hill (17/5/3)
PHI - Korver (11/4/3)
PHX - Diaw (12/7/6)
POR - Kryhapa (5/4/1)
SAC - Artest (19/5/2)
SAN - Bowen (7/4/2)
SEA - Lewis (22/6/2)
TOR - MoPete (14/5/2)
UTA - AK47 (16/9/4)
WAS - Butler (16/5/3)
Those are the starting SFs in the league. Off of the top of my head, at least half of them are better than Odom and most likely there are 20-21 I'd take over Odom, especially given his salary and the things some of these others bring (shooting, defense, etc.). 14/7/6 looks pretty average in comparison.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker -
Harrington starts at 4, not 3.
Also, if you look at the overall numbers - who apart from Lebron James and Paul Pierce averages 5+ assists?
So while Bounty says that 14, 6 and 7 are average numbers for SF - I disagree.
There's only 2 guys that average 5 assists or more. Pierce and Lebron.
Also in rebounding, 9 is the highest number there.
Again, you won't find SF's in the league that average 14,9+,5+ ....
Odom may be an average scoring SF - but his overall numbers are not average. He is the best rebounder on that list and 2nd/3rd in assists. |
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karlmalonefan
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Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
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You tell em, wolf! btw...welcome back Lamar, you were sorely missed, at least by this LAKER fan...  ...you showed a lot of heart. |
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Canuck
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1316
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Big props to Odom!!! He played with a lot of heart and grit. He even seemed like he gave a damn out there!! |
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Wait -
The average numbers for starting SF's are not 14, 7 and 6 Bounty.
Go ahead and do the research. There isn't any SF in the NBA apart from two or three that give a team more than 5+ rebounds and 5+ assists.
14, 7 and 6 are good numbers. You can piss on that all you want, but you are just full of it. |
ATL - Harrington (19/7/3)
BOS - Pierce (26/7/5)
CHA - Wallace (14/7/2)
CHI - Deng (13/6/2)
CLE - LBJ (31/7/7)
DAL - Howard (16/7/2)
DEN - 'Melo (26/5/3)
DET - Prince (15/4/2)
GSW - Dunleavy (11/5/3)
HOU - TMac (27/7/5)
IND - Peja (17/6/2)
LAC - Maggette (22/6/2)
LAL - Odom (14/9/5)
MEM - Battier (11/5/2)
MIA - Posey (8/5/1)
MIL - Simmons (13/5/2)
MIN - Hassell (9/3/2)
NJN - Jefferson (19/7/4)
NOK - Snyder (7/2/1)
NYK - Rose (12/3/3)
ORL - Hill (17/5/3)
PHI - Korver (11/4/3)
PHX - Diaw (12/7/6)
POR - Kryhapa (5/4/1)
SAC - Artest (19/5/2)
SAN - Bowen (7/4/2)
SEA - Lewis (22/6/2)
TOR - MoPete (14/5/2)
UTA - AK47 (16/9/4)
WAS - Butler (16/5/3)
Those are the starting SFs in the league. Off of the top of my head, at least half of them are better than Odom and most likely there are 20-21 I'd take over Odom, especially given his salary and the things some of these others bring (shooting, defense, etc.). 14/7/6 looks pretty average in comparison. |
I would take Richard Jefferson over Lamar 10 out of 10 times... |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Dr. Laker -
Harrington starts at 4, not 3. |
Lamar starts at 4 a lot, too.
| Quote: | Also, if you look at the overall numbers - who apart from Lebron James and Paul Pierce averages 5+ assists?
So while Bounty says that 14, 6 and 7 are average numbers for SF - I disagree.
There's only 2 guys that average 5 assists or more. Pierce and Lebron.
Also in rebounding, 9 is the highest number there.
Again, you won't find SF's in the league that average 14,9+,5+ .... |
If your point is that Lamar is one of the top passing SF, fine, but his impact on the game is not nearly as great as some of those others.
| Quote: | | Odom may be an average scoring SF - but his overall numbers are not average. He is the best rebounder on that list and 2nd/3rd in assists. |
Yeah, but as a PLAYER for this Laker team, do you take Odom over:
Pierce, Melo, LBJ, Kirilenko, Jefferson, Harrington, TMac, Peja, Prince,
Artest?
How about:
Josh Howard, Battier, Diaw, Deng?
LO has a nice mix of skills, but do those skills actually help us win more than, say, Richard Jefferson's 19/7/4 with consistent scoring or Boris Diaw's 12/7/6 with All League Defense
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Lamar is the best SF in the NBA because he averages 5+ assists and 5+ rebounds. |
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Addicus
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dr Laker and Wolf -
The only people I see on that list I feel would be impact for this current Laker Squad are:
Pierce / Josh Howard / Melo / Kirelenko / Artest. I don't count TMac because he is really a 2. He guards 2's, the rest actually play the 3 on both ends.
I would honestly trade Lamar for anyone on that list (including TMac) except Howard, whom I like also.
Also Dr. Laker - Lamar has not started at the 4 this year, at least since early December. He may play the 4 during the game, but Phil has started Cook / Brown at the 4 so Lamar is really a 3 this year.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| psydesho wrote: | Dr Laker and Wolf -
The only people I see on that list I feel would be impact for this current Laker Squad are:
Pierce / Josh Howard / Melo / Kirelenko / Artest. I don't count TMac because he is really a 2. He guards 2's, the rest actually play the 3 on both ends.
I would honestly trade Lamar for anyone on that list (including TMac) except Howard, whom I like also.
Also Dr. Laker - Lamar has not started at the 4 this year, at least since early December. He may play the 4 during the game, but Phil has started Cook / Brown at the 4 so Lamar is really a 3 this year. |
Maggette? LeBron? Heck - even Diaw or Deng would make an impact on defense that's much greater than what LO brings in passing/rebounding.
I'm not saying that LO is garbage, but he's vastly overpaid for what he brings. He may average 9+ rebs, but he has a lot of 6/7 rebound games in our losses. He may average 5+ assists, but dude has had more than a few 7/8 turnover games vs poor teams. As for scoring - what seperates him from a Scottie Pippen is that Scottie would assert himself when it was necessary while Lamar shrinks away from pressure situations.
If we had two other good players, Lamar would be an asset, doing the "little things." We don't have the luxury of having a $12,000,000 a year role player, however.
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angel
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Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Odom makes a difference. The team isn't quite the same without him.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | | Odom makes a difference. The team isn't quite the same without him. |
Yes, but does he make as much of a difference as, say, Richard Jefferson? Heck, Mihm makes as much of a difference as Lamar IMO.
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thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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There is alot of talk about LO needing the ball to create his own shot or to get his teamates involved and that Kobe is also a player who needs the ball alot to create his own shot. I find the first to be true but not necessarily the latter. Kobe can play the post, the perimeter, he can catch and shoot, or create off the dribble. LO however is not a consistent catch and shoot player. He likes to shoot that hook of the glass dribble a couple of times and release. He used to have a turn around jumper in miami playing the PF but hes gone away from it so he can catch and shoot on the perimeter now playing the SF. Against Dallas I saw LO in the post spotting Cook for open jumpers, and are offense looked good. I say LO can play well with Kobe and has done so here and there this season. We need to run the offense through LO but not through the perimeter has weve done mostly but through the post as we have seen very little of. Kobe will be fine if LO is creating shots for everyone. Props to LO for playing through pain. He showed me alot against Dallas.
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40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: |
YES props to lo, he played hurt. 1st time in lakers gear. But his production Pre-injury was that of injury. So what....................... |
amen
Just for one game now Lamar is some player that deserves props 
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tgf5
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 11581
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| More than half of that SF list is better than Lamar? Give me a break. Lamar probably has the best all around game of those guys except for LeBron James. |
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raffi
LG Contributor
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9987
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeButler wrote: | | I feel with a healthy team(odom, mihm, turiaf, and mckie) we can beat any team. |
You forgot Slava . . . now, we're talking championship. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tgf5 wrote: | | More than half of that SF list is better than Lamar? Give me a break. Lamar probably has the best all around game of those guys except for LeBron James. |
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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