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| Who Do You Hope the Lakers Draft? |
| Ben Simmons |
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45% |
[ 205 ] |
| Brandon Ingram |
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54% |
[ 243 ] |
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| Total Votes : 448 |
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MJST
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 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | man I just hope we keep the pick  |
That would be ideal. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Ingram because he's a much better shooter and has elite length to be great defensively. Both would be great to have but you have to fit your team around Simmons. |
Why do you have to fit your team around Simmons? |
He's a player that likes to have the ball in his hands. Think of the way Lebron plays but without the jumpshot. He's not good at spotting up as a shooter which will happen when Clarkson and Dlo have the ball.
Ingram like Durant can play off the ball and allow ball handlers to create for him. He's good with the ball to but he can fit in any system. |
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Dilla_
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Simmons is more NBA ready than Ingram at the moment but you could argue the Lakers need Ingram more than Simmons with the lack of options at the SF spot. Some have said the way Simmons plays is like a point-forward with the talent he's got. The Lakers have already got Randle and Nance Jr as the PF options but if they drafted Simmons you could find ways for all three of them to get enough game time. E.g. Randle or Simmons at the five or Simmons or Nance Jr at the three.
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram gets the nod from me because of his shooting. Already has a smooth release. I also was impressed with his toughness rebounding and on defense.
Not sure I agree that Simmons is more "pro ready" then Ingram. Certainly more physically imposing and solid skills. But Ingram competes and is willing to take the pressure shots in a game. Mentally he might be more ready then many give him credit IMO.
Ingram just has a different body type and SF role. Durant seems to have found a way to be successful with a similar body type and skillset. |
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Roon
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Roon wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Ingram because he's a much better shooter and has elite length to be great defensively. Both would be great to have but you have to fit your team around Simmons. |
Why do you have to fit your team around Simmons? |
He's a player that likes to have the ball in his hands. Think of the way Lebron plays but without the jumpshot. He's not good at spotting up as a shooter which will happen when Clarkson and Dlo have the ball.
Ingram like Durant can play off the ball and allow ball handlers to create for him. He's good with the ball to but he can fit in any system. |
A bigman who is athletic and can set screens, pass, and finish with both hands as well as rebound and is terrific in transition, should be able to fit on any team. |
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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IDK why people keep talking about "fit". "Fit" really only has a place in rebuilding when you have a BONAFIDE future All-Star on your team. And Randle is FAR from that. Outside of rebounding, Randle's offensive numbers are crap: 11 ppg on 42% shooting? And we're worried about not drafting over him?? Please.
You take the best player AVAILABLE. If the Lakers paid attention to "fit", we wouldn't have Kobe Bryant, seeing as how we already had Eddie Jones. We wouldn't have had Shaq, seeing as how we already had Elden Campbell.
Simmons is CLEARLY better than Randle. He's a better passer, he's bigger, faster, a better ball-handler. He's a clear upgrade over Randle. If the opportunity comes to get him, you take him for sure. Worry about "fit" later. You can always deal one or the other (probably Randle) off for pieces that fit. |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Simmons reminds me as a young Lamar Odom. i still have that SLAM magazine when LO was one of the top recruits came out of high school. people were raving at his dynamic skill set, ability to play multiple positions. Does Simmons do any one particular area well? we don't want a jack of all trades master of none type of player.
as for Ingram, i haven't watched any games he played, is he like justise winslow? all defense and no offense? |
Simmons is more explosive, quicker and already has a better post game. Simmons will play at 260. LO played at 230.
Right now Simmons is a mix between Blake Griffin and LO. |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| iceberg01 wrote: | IDK why people keep talking about "fit". "Fit" really only has a place in rebuilding when you have a BONAFIDE future All-Star on your team. And Randle is FAR from that. Outside of rebounding, Randle's offensive numbers are crap: 11 ppg on 42% shooting? And we're worried about not drafting over him?? Please.
You take the best player AVAILABLE. If the Lakers paid attention to "fit", we wouldn't have Kobe Bryant, seeing as how we already had Eddie Jones. We wouldn't have had Shaq, seeing as how we already had Elden Campbell.
Simmons is CLEARLY better than Randle. He's a better passer, he's bigger, faster, a better ball-handler. He's a clear upgrade over Randle. If the opportunity comes to get him, you take him for sure. Worry about "fit" later. You can always deal one or the other (probably Randle) off for pieces that fit. |
I understand the sentiment of your comments. But IMO you are focusing on the wrong aspect of this question.
The question is not if Simmons is better then Randle, the question is Simmons better then Ingram.
Arguably he is. Just different skills and expected roles. IMO both will have solid careers and impact. |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | If the lakers take simmons you can pretty much bank on the fact the lakers will move randle so fit won't be a problem.
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Move Randle for Mario Hezonja. |
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
Also, Christian Laettner won national championships with Duke, and Shaq didn't with LSU. Didn't matter for their NBA futures, obviously. Same here. |
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | IDK why people keep talking about "fit". "Fit" really only has a place in rebuilding when you have a BONAFIDE future All-Star on your team. And Randle is FAR from that. Outside of rebounding, Randle's offensive numbers are crap: 11 ppg on 42% shooting? And we're worried about not drafting over him?? Please.
You take the best player AVAILABLE. If the Lakers paid attention to "fit", we wouldn't have Kobe Bryant, seeing as how we already had Eddie Jones. We wouldn't have had Shaq, seeing as how we already had Elden Campbell.
Simmons is CLEARLY better than Randle. He's a better passer, he's bigger, faster, a better ball-handler. He's a clear upgrade over Randle. If the opportunity comes to get him, you take him for sure. Worry about "fit" later. You can always deal one or the other (probably Randle) off for pieces that fit. |
I understand the sentiment of your comments. But IMO you are focusing on the wrong aspect of this question.
The question is not if Simmons is better then Randle, the question is Simmons better then Ingram.
Arguably he is. Just different skills and expected roles. IMO both will have solid careers and impact. |
Agreed. Just debunking the "fit" argument as the impetus to pick Ingram over Simmons. If you pick Ingram, it's because you (the front office) think he's the better player. Not because you're actually trying to draft for position. |
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Simmons reminds me as a young Lamar Odom. i still have that SLAM magazine when LO was one of the top recruits came out of high school. people were raving at his dynamic skill set, ability to play multiple positions. Does Simmons do any one particular area well? we don't want a jack of all trades master of none type of player.
as for Ingram, i haven't watched any games he played, is he like justise winslow? all defense and no offense? |
Simmons is more explosive, quicker and already has a better post game. Simmons will play at 260. LO played at 230.
Right now Simmons is a mix between Blake Griffin and LO. |
I think Simmons is a elite-level passer. And he's totally ambidextrous, passing & finishing with both hands, whereas LO was totally left-hand dominant. Plus he's twice the run/jump athlete that LO was. IMO, he's a Lebron/Blake Griffin hybrid. Which is scary. |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| iceberg01 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Simmons reminds me as a young Lamar Odom. i still have that SLAM magazine when LO was one of the top recruits came out of high school. people were raving at his dynamic skill set, ability to play multiple positions. Does Simmons do any one particular area well? we don't want a jack of all trades master of none type of player.
as for Ingram, i haven't watched any games he played, is he like justise winslow? all defense and no offense? |
Simmons is more explosive, quicker and already has a better post game. Simmons will play at 260. LO played at 230.
Right now Simmons is a mix between Blake Griffin and LO. |
I think Simmons is a elite-level passer. And he's totally ambidextrous, passing & finishing with both hands, whereas LO was totally left-hand dominant. Plus he's twice the run/jump athlete that LO was. IMO, he's a Lebron/Blake Griffin hybrid. Which is scary. |
Athletically + Size ... I agree w/the hybrid comparison of LO & Blake.
Sorta like LBJ is more of a Shaq + Magic (not Jordan) hybrid.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | If the lakers take simmons you can pretty much bank on the fact the lakers will move randle so fit won't be a problem.
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I would love to take your money on that one.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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.. Thanks for the shot charts.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| iceberg01 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
Also, Christian Laettner won national championships with Duke, and Shaq didn't with LSU. Didn't matter for their NBA futures, obviously. Same here. |
Shaq didn't make the tourney?
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
Also, Christian Laettner won national championships with Duke, and Shaq didn't with LSU. Didn't matter for their NBA futures, obviously. Same here. |
Shaq didn't make the tourney? |
Shaq played with some pretty damn good future NBA players. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (formerly known as Chris Jackson), Stanley Jackson. I don't even think they played in a Final 4. On the other hand, who did Simmons play with? |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| iceberg01 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
Also, Christian Laettner won national championships with Duke, and Shaq didn't with LSU. Didn't matter for their NBA futures, obviously. Same here. |
Shaq didn't make the tourney? |
Shaq played with some pretty damn good future NBA players. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (formerly known as Chris Jackson), Stanley Jackson. I don't even think they played in a Final 4. On the other hand, who did Simmons play with? |
It's not about the Final 4 for me. The idea is, he got into the tournament, and Shaq was still developing at LSU. I remember when Shaq was 6'10" 260, before he grew bigger into 7'1" 290.
In terms of skill, Simmons was far more polished and not a project player. Clearly, the numbers show for it. LSU had a couple of 3 and 4 star recruits but they didn't put it all together. Quarterman failed as a PG. Their 4-star wing player didn't adjust to NCAA defenses. But, they still had an elite recruiting class, and lesser recruiting classes made the touney. University of Washington.
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Runway8
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Surprise Simmons is winning this thread. I think Luke would think as a coach, and think in terms of what he has, not what he could have. And what he has is a Draymond Green type player already in Randle, so I think he'd take Ingram to stretch the floor and create that spacing that he likes.
Mitch on the other hand, can think differently. If he likes Ben Simmons so much, he can think about ways to move Randle in a trade. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | Surprise Simmons is winning this thread. I think Luke would think as a coach, and think in terms of what he has, not what he could have. And what he has is a Draymond Green type player already in Randle, so I think he'd take Ingram to stretch the floor and create that spacing that he likes.
Mitch on the other hand, can think differently. If he likes Ben Simmons so much, he can think about ways to move Randle in a trade. |
Honestly, if Anthony Brown showed more development, this would be far less of an issue.
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
Also, Christian Laettner won national championships with Duke, and Shaq didn't with LSU. Didn't matter for their NBA futures, obviously. Same here. |
Shaq didn't make the tourney? |
Shaq played with some pretty damn good future NBA players. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (formerly known as Chris Jackson), Stanley Jackson. I don't even think they played in a Final 4. On the other hand, who did Simmons play with? |
It's not about the Final 4 for me. The idea is, he got into the tournament, and Shaq was still developing at LSU. I remember when Shaq was 6'10" 260, before he grew bigger into 7'1" 290.
In terms of skill, Simmons was far more polished and not a project player. Clearly, the numbers show for it. LSU had a couple of 3 and 4 star recruits but they didn't put it all together. Quarterman failed as a PG. Their 4-star wing player didn't adjust to NCAA defenses. But, they still had an elite recruiting class, and lesser recruiting classes made the touney. University of Washington. |
But doesn't coaching (or the lack thereof) play a HUGE role in this? There's no doubt in my mind that if Simmons played at Duke, Duke would have done better than it did. And perhaps if Ingram played at LSU, we wouldn't be talking about him as a potential #1 pick. I mean, Ingram has the benefit of having one of the college basketballl coaching GOAT's, and current Olympic & US head basketball coach as his coach. Meanwhile, the average sports fan (myself included) can't tell you who Simmons' coach was. And definitely won't be able to 5 years from now. |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | iceberg01 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If we're lucky enough to choose I guess Ingram. I still can't believe LSU didn't even make the tournament with Simmons. Something isn't right |
Replace Simmons with Ingram at LSU and LSU doesn't make the tournament either. |
Also, Christian Laettner won national championships with Duke, and Shaq didn't with LSU. Didn't matter for their NBA futures, obviously. Same here. |
Shaq didn't make the tourney? |
Shaq played with some pretty damn good future NBA players. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (formerly known as Chris Jackson), Stanley Jackson. I don't even think they played in a Final 4. On the other hand, who did Simmons play with? |
It's not about the Final 4 for me. The idea is, he got into the tournament, and Shaq was still developing at LSU. I remember when Shaq was 6'10" 260, before he grew bigger into 7'1" 290.
In terms of skill, Simmons was far more polished and not a project player. Clearly, the numbers show for it. LSU had a couple of 3 and 4 star recruits but they didn't put it all together. Quarterman failed as a PG. Their 4-star wing player didn't adjust to NCAA defenses. But, they still had an elite recruiting class, and lesser recruiting classes made the touney. University of Washington. |
Washington made the tourney?
LSU might have had some good talent, but most of it was with inexperience FR and they had a horrible coach.
Coaching matters - ask UNLV and UCLA which are stacked with top talent. |
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iceberg01
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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I like Ingram. Let me just put that out there. But I think too much time has been devoted to Simmons's strengths and perceived weaknesses, while we've really only discussed Ingram's strengths.
I'm a TAD bit worried that Ingram isn't the scorer that he's quite hyped up to be. Yes, he's a nice shooter, but all of the comparisons and metrics indicate that he won't quite be a KD-level scorer. So what does that potentially leave us with? A Paul George-type? Which is definitely not bad. But is THAT #1 pick overall caliber?
Also, his frame worries me. 6'9" 195 is RAIL-THIN. He could gain 20 pounds and STILL BE SKINNY!!  And with the exception of KD, a lot of rail-thin players have struggled. Corey Brewer. There's another really thin guard that LG (myself included) was hyped up about back in the day that struggled once he got in the league, but I can't forget his name. Kerry Kittles is another one. Wesley Johnson is another one. I'm concerned that, in a league of grown men, Ingram could justifiably shy away from contact, (new rules notwithstanding), and become more of a shooter, which would kinda negate his length (much like KD in the clutch).
Also, defensively, he can play the passing lanes, and has length, but again--with that frame, how physical can he be??? |
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