Who Do You Hope the Lakers Draft - Simmons or Ingram?
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Who Do You Hope the Lakers Draft?
Ben Simmons
45%
 45%  [ 205 ]
Brandon Ingram
54%
 54%  [ 243 ]
Total Votes : 448

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
So will I be copping an Ingram or Simmons jersey next season? There was a little stretch where I wasn't grabbing any Lakers merch. Last season copped 2 numbers. 30 and 1. Hopefully, they stick around long enough for me to rep.


That is easy, I never buy a jersey from a player before he wins a championship with us. I have/had jerseys of Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Shaq, Kobe and Pau ... that is it.

Any player wearing the P&G armor should be considered unaccomplished without a ring. I have no love for a player before he gets us a trophy.

I'm really high on the two candidates for #2 pick this year and I believe they will be in the hunt for ROY alongside players like Hield and Dunn, but I have no love for individual accomplishments. I'm happy about the player, but it's about trophies.

Derek Fisher is higher on my book than Nick Van Excel, Russell or Clarkson even if they are better players for sure.
I copped a kobe jersey straight from jump. I believe it was either in 97 or 98. Obviously, various retro magic and various laker legend jerseys as I grew up. If I'm sold on a player, I'll rep him from the beginning. No questions asked. So far it's kobe and d'Angelo.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
So will I be copping an Ingram or Simmons jersey next season? There was a little stretch where I wasn't grabbing any Lakers merch. Last season copped 2 numbers. 30 and 1. Hopefully, they stick around long enough for me to rep.


That's the problem. I'm not sure which guys will be around in the next 3-4 years.
If I had to throw money down, it'll be the cat wearing #1.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:47 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:
There are two types of bad shooters. Ones that have developed an awful form over years and years, like Joakim Noah. Then there are others that have good form, but lack confidence and consistency. The former is nearly impossible to correct. They can get better, but will never be great because you have to erase years of incorrect form.


When it comes to shooting form, it seems like there's an example or two for just about any scenario you can think of. Most guys with bad form just continue with bad form, like you said. Then there are those who, somehow, some way, developed what appears to be "bad form", but it was a form that resulted in top class shooting. Maybe their biomechanics necessitated an awkward form to succeed(?)... Jamaal Wilkes and Reggie Miller. I agree that they're outliers though. Another guy who comes to mind is Mase. God ugly form, he shot FTs with one hand. He wasn't exactly Glen Rice out there, but it was a minor miracle that he was serviceable most of the time. His FT style in his final years lent to a wild disparity from year to year, but he averaged .781 one season shooting them with one hand.

PS: I wanna propose AC and Worthy. They both improved over the years as midrange shooters. AC became pretty spot on from the top of the key because he was left wide open so many times, but he didn't have that shot as a newb. Took him maybe 4-5 yrs to become a confident midrange shooter. Even Elden Campbell developed a serviceable, but awkward midrange/baseline shot. In his 3 peak seasons (94-97), he would hit those regularly it seemed. I think the fundamental reason, though, was that he had his head on tight for the first time in his career because he was playing for that 49 million dollar contract. The attention to detail and willingness to practice and improve was there. If that's there, a poor shooter MAY have a chance at improving to some degree. Without it, forget it.

I'd like to comment on this, albeit somewhat late.

You brought up a great point in that we've seen an example of enough types of shooters to say basically that there is no predictable way to say whether a rookie can or can't become a decent shooter if he isn't very good from the get go. And normally, I wouldn't even comment on this if not for all the things I'm hearing now that Curry has taken over the NBA.

Yes, we've seen BAD shooters (like Simmons, and remember Lebron was like this also) become decent shooters, even good shooters. That can be attributed to advancing technology, more money in the sport, and players have more tools now to work on their shot and fix things, etc. as long as they have a somewhat healthy attitude towards it. And most NBA players have a healthy enough attitude or else they wouldn't have even made it there.

But there is something we haven't seen. We've never really seen a bad shooter like a Simmons rookie or Lebron rookie develop a KILLER jumper, the kind we saw guys like Kobe and MJ take at their peaks. Or what Curry and Thompson are doing with the 3ball. Yes, guys like Ibaka can get decent enough at it (serviceable is always the word used in the NBA) to integrate it into the overall team strategy. But Ibaka will not be regularly relied upon to bail a team out in important situations as a primary option.

As such, I'm with the crowd that is kind of down on Simmons. I'd rather have the guy with the skill that is not really learnable at this stage of the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:
There are two types of bad shooters. Ones that have developed an awful form over years and years, like Joakim Noah. Then there are others that have good form, but lack confidence and consistency. The former is nearly impossible to correct. They can get better, but will never be great because you have to erase years of incorrect form.


When it comes to shooting form, it seems like there's an example or two for just about any scenario you can think of. Most guys with bad form just continue with bad form, like you said. Then there are those who, somehow, some way, developed what appears to be "bad form", but it was a form that resulted in top class shooting. Maybe their biomechanics necessitated an awkward form to succeed(?)... Jamaal Wilkes and Reggie Miller. I agree that they're outliers though. Another guy who comes to mind is Mase. God ugly form, he shot FTs with one hand. He wasn't exactly Glen Rice out there, but it was a minor miracle that he was serviceable most of the time. His FT style in his final years lent to a wild disparity from year to year, but he averaged .781 one season shooting them with one hand.

PS: I wanna propose AC and Worthy. They both improved over the years as midrange shooters. AC became pretty spot on from the top of the key because he was left wide open so many times, but he didn't have that shot as a newb. Took him maybe 4-5 yrs to become a confident midrange shooter. Even Elden Campbell developed a serviceable, but awkward midrange/baseline shot. In his 3 peak seasons (94-97), he would hit those regularly it seemed. I think the fundamental reason, though, was that he had his head on tight for the first time in his career because he was playing for that 49 million dollar contract. The attention to detail and willingness to practice and improve was there. If that's there, a poor shooter MAY have a chance at improving to some degree. Without it, forget it.

I'd like to comment on this, albeit somewhat late.

You brought up a great point in that we've seen an example of enough types of shooters to say basically that there is no predictable way to say whether a rookie can or can't become a decent shooter if he isn't very good from the get go. And normally, I wouldn't even comment on this if not for all the things I'm hearing now that Curry has taken over the NBA.

Yes, we've seen BAD shooters (like Simmons, and remember Lebron was like this also) become decent shooters, even good shooters. That can be attributed to advancing technology, more money in the sport, and players have more tools now to work on their shot and fix things, etc. as long as they have a somewhat healthy attitude towards it. And most NBA players have a healthy enough attitude or else they wouldn't have even made it there.

But there is something we haven't seen. We've never really seen a bad shooter like a Simmons rookie or Lebron rookie develop a KILLER jumper, the kind we saw guys like Kobe and MJ take at their peaks. Or what Curry and Thompson are doing with the 3ball. Yes, guys like Ibaka can get decent enough at it (serviceable is always the word used in the NBA) to integrate it into the overall team strategy. But Ibaka will not be regularly relied upon to bail a team out in important situations as a primary option.

As such, I'm with the crowd that is kind of down on Simmons. I'd rather have the guy with the skill that is not really learnable at this stage of the game.


So Ingram is considered to have a KILLER jumper a la the guys you mentioned, and Durant,Ray Allen, etc. Or is he like a Mike Miller? Or a James Jones/Anthony Morrow type?
3 diff tiers maybe.
I lean towards Ingram based off of what I've seen. Simmons' flaws do seem sort of...fundamental. Not a huge fan of players with fundamental flaws in their game a la Dwight now, though talented in certain aspects.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject:

I might cop an Ingram jersey. Either him or Russell. You don't really see Russell jerseys as much and not many people will have Ingram jerseys from the jump so it'll be dope because it's something different. I already have other Laker jerseys and everybody and their mother wears Kobe jerseys so it's cooler to wear something different.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject:

I was looking for some old Ingram threads from the beginning and was shocked more of you guys wanted Ingram than Simmons.

Obviously the Lakers had the #2 pick and could not draft Simmons but surprising nonetheless.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject:

YSong wrote:
I was looking for some old Ingram threads from the beginning and was shocked more of you guys wanted Ingram than Simmons.

Obviously the Lakers had the #2 pick and could not draft Simmons but surprising nonetheless.


Well, Ingram seemed like a better fit at the time.

And now, with LeBron, I think he still is.
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