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LakerFan4L
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 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: It's time to let reality set in.. and for us to stop lying to each other and ourselves. |
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Phil, as great a coach as he is, is not a good enough coach to make this team into a winner. That's saying ALOT, because I also believe he is the best coach to ever ride the pine.
Koeb Bryant is in the same boat Michael Jordan was in when Jordan first came into the league. Great player, average team. No matter how well Kobe plays, there is a still a greater chance of us losing than there is us winning. We are so reliant on Kobe that if he doesnt have a good game, were pretty much guranteed to lose.
Lamar Odom is underrated. I'm on him at times, we all are. He is a tad bit turnover prone, but how many guys in this league consistently get 10 rebounds and 6 assists a game? 14 points is fine for a #3 option.. problem is, he has to be the #2 option.
Chris Mihm, when not in foul trouble, is a top 10 center in this league. He has a great touch around the basket, can hit the mid-range jumper, is a solid post defender, and is a good shot blocker from the weak-side. The only reason he is inconsistent is because of that foul-trouble he finds himself in at times because he does get overaggressive. He's our 3rd best player, and 2nd best player on some nights. Valuable player.
Kwame Brown is one thing; a good post defender. THATS IT. For someone with his athletic ability.. his skill.. his talent.. HE SHOULD BE SO MUCH MORE. He is a BUST. You dont pay "good post defenders" 8 million a year. It's time to realize that he is a bust. Some players never change.. Kwame is one of them. The ball he is always bobbling around in his hands has a higher game IQ than he does. Enough with that bum. He will never amount to anything in this league, and as soon as we can get rid of him, he will be a journeyman big playing for half of the MLE or LLE for a different team every year. BUST.
That's all I'm gonna say for now.
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lakersfan4life69
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Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| if chris mihm is a top 10 center, lamar odom is underrated, kobe bryant is like michael jordan, and phil jackson is the best coach ever, then why are we .500? that team you described sounds like a title contender. |
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Vlade
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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If salary is a rough indication of how teams rate their players, Lamar Odom is anything but underrated.
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VonWafer&KobeBryantFa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Odom isn't underrated he is overrated. Mihm is a top 15 C in the league out of foul trouble and Kobe has a horrible team not a average team. |
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LakerFan4L
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan4life69 wrote: | | if chris mihm is a top 10 center, lamar odom is underrated, kobe bryant is like michael jordan, and phil jackson is the best coach ever, then why are we .500? that team you described sounds like a title contender. |
Why you say?
Sasha Vujacic is vastly underdeveloped. He is all hustle at this point. He shouldnt be getting 20 MPG, but since we have no other options, he has to. He is still very raw.
Thin up front. Outside of Mihm, we got nothing. Kwame is terrible. Cook can space the floor on offense for Kobe/LO, but is a liability on defense. Turiaf is still a question mark, we have no idea what is there. Bynum has flashes, but he is not someone to depend on. We are very, very thin up front.
We dont have a consistent 2nd scorer. Kobe is the constant, but he needs someone to take the double off him. Lamar is not that type of player. Lamar is best when he creates his own shot, not when someone else sets him up. Smush is the same way.
We have a great player, two very good players, and then is just goes south from there. The reason we are a .500 team is because the talent around those 3 just isnt good enough.
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LakerFan4L
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Vlade wrote: | | If salary is a rough indication of how teams rate their players, Lamar Odom is anything but underrated. |
I think Lamar is worth what he makes. If we had another player he could get the ball to, he would be all the better. He is a triple-double threat on any given night.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so.
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LakerFan4L
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists.
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TACH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
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40ptmachine
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: It's time to let reality set in.. and for us to stop lying to each other and ourselves. |
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| LakerFan4L wrote: |
Lamar Odom is underrated. |
 
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RG73
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
He had Caron, Wade, EJ, Alston...didn't average 10 assists, had maybe 1 triple double.
He had Brand, Miller, Q, Maggette, Ely, Pike, Jaric...didn't even average 4 assists that season (2002-3).
He's had the talent, he is in no danger of being the next Fat Lever, Jason Kidd, Magic, or Oscar Roberston. |
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
They won't listen to that man... I've been pointing that out cosntantly. They don't understand the mechanics. Lo can find people. Even tonight if Bryant moves without the ball he gets rid of the double and triple teams. Odom finds him when he is open. Meantime since Cook was hot. Odom sets him up and, suddenly we are running an offense. Odom will get rebounds nobody need be concerned with that. double figures in these two catergories alone are a breeze for this guy as long as the system is running efficiently. Why anybody would see anything else is beyond me...
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K8KillerInstinct
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
Exactly why LeBron gets triple double cuz his teamates make shots from his passes. Imagine LeBron, Kidd being in Kobe's shoes, would they avg triple doubles? NEVER
Lamar is OK to Solid, we would have lost by 20 or more if Lamar wasn't here today. Remember we lost to Bobcats, Hornets w/o Lamar.
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
He had Caron, Wade, EJ, Alston...didn't average 10 assists, had maybe 1 triple double.
He had Brand, Miller, Q, Maggette, Ely, Pike, Jaric...didn't even average 4 assists that season (2002-3).
He's had the talent, he is in no danger of being the next Fat Lever, Jason Kidd, Magic, or Oscar Roberston. |
He wasn't initiating in Miami so, why would he? Odom was at the 4 so why would he be expected to lead in assist? Wade was doing just fine... You wonder why you're the classic hater? Don't... It would kill you to give LO props in this game knowing that he was injured wouldn't it?
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."
Last edited by THE_SHOES on Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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K8KillerInstinct
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, Lamar is good but he just doesnt fit with the Lakers. We need to trade him for a real PG like Chris Paul ( I wish 
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
I guess any excuse can work.
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| K8KillerInstinct wrote: | | Yeah, Lamar is good but he just doesnt fit with the Lakers. We need to trade him for a real PG like Chris Paul ( I wish |
You think that this current squad will suddenly start lighting up the shots with the sudden arrival of Paul?
The logic on that is comical...
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Lying to each other and ourselves? Um, no. If you thought this was a great team prior to now, you were lying to yourself. Most of us knew that this team was at best a marginal playoff team.
I'm sick of Odom threads, so I'll just skip your comment about him being "underrated." I've expressed my opinion about Odom in many other threads.
As for Mihm, the truth is that he is arguably a top 10 center even with his foul troubles. That isn't because he is anything special, but rather because the center position is at a low ebb around the league right now. It would be hard to name 10 centers who are clearly better than Mihm. Once you get past the obvious names (B. Wallace, Shaq, Stoudemire, Camby, Miller, Ilgauskas, and maybe a couple more who aren't jumping to mind), you hit a layer of centers who just aren't that distinguishable from each other. I'd take Mihm over most of them.
This is why Bynum is such a big deal. He doesn't have to blossom into the next Shaq to become one of the top centers in the league.
This is a team with one bona fide star, two quality players with limitations on their games, and a whole bunch of projects -- Kwame, Smush, Sasha, Bynum, Turiaf, Wafer. The remaining players are just bench fodder -- George, Cook, Walton, McKie, Green.
Sure, some of you were optimistic about how this team would work out. Some of you thought we'd be really good. I'm sure you're depressed right now.
Most of us had lower expectations. If you'd told me on November 1 that we would be at .500 and the #8 seed for the playoffs a couple weeks before the all-star game, I'd have grinned ear to ear. This is not the future of the Lakers. This is a transitional team. Most of these guys will be long gone when the next great team emerges.
So you think we should stop kidding ourselves about this team? Well, duh. Most of us never kidded ourselves at all. |
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K8KillerInstinct
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | K8KillerInstinct wrote: | | Yeah, Lamar is good but he just doesnt fit with the Lakers. We need to trade him for a real PG like Chris Paul ( I wish |
You think that this current squad will suddenly start lighting up the shots with the sudden arrival of Paul?
The logic on that is comical... |
No I am not saying that, but dont you think we would be BETTER than now if we had a real PG (someone who can create shots, make shots, obviously pass).
I agree Lamar is great, but he doesn't fit our current needs. He will NEVER BE the Pippen, phil talked about.
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
I guess any excuse can work. |
I'm trying to understand how that is an excuse Ventura. I just don't get it... You got one guy underneath with the potential to score. You got Kobe with the ball 60% of the time. The rest of the team may have one guy hitting if the team is lucky and you see that reasoning as an excuse? Please explain...
How about this? Put Lamar in the low post and allow him to find people from there. Brian at the high post and Kobe on the wing, with Smush cutting? You guys just hate Odom on what you see in the role he is trying to play now. You pay no attention to his skillset level and that is ashame...
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K8KillerInstinct
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I just have to say it. THE_SHOES  Lamar very much.
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tw-lakbfan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Big props to Odom for playing hurt. A hurt Odom is better than a healthy Kwame.
Can we get rid of Kwame, Walton already? Kwame, Walton, Parker are actually regressed over the past couple of weeks.
Last edited by tw-lakbfan on Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| K8KillerInstinct wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | K8KillerInstinct wrote: | | Yeah, Lamar is good but he just doesnt fit with the Lakers. We need to trade him for a real PG like Chris Paul ( I wish |
You think that this current squad will suddenly start lighting up the shots with the sudden arrival of Paul?
The logic on that is comical... |
No I am not saying that, but dont you think we would be BETTER than now if we had a real PG (someone who can create shots, make shots, obviously pass).
I agree Lamar is great, but he doesn't fit our current needs. He will NEVER BE the Pippen, phil talked about. |
With Chris Paul, and I'm guessing that would mean no Smush coming off the bench, then I'd guess this team would be about two, maybe three games better than thy are right now, all other things being exactly the same. So really, just the same mediorcre team. Hate to break it to ya, but .500 is phenomenal for a team in rebuilding mode with the least amount of overall talent in the league. Phenomenal....
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Drifts
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakerFan4L wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Once and for all, stop referring to Odom as a "triple double threat on any given night". The guy doesn't do triple doubles, he is no threat to do so. |
To have a triple-double, you need teammates to pass to. He consistent gets double figure points and rebounds, but when you got one guy to pass to consistently, its hard to get those assists. |
I guess any excuse can work. |
I'm trying to understand how that is an excuse Ventura. I just don't get it... You got one guy underneath with the potential to score. You got Kobe with the ball 60% of the time. The rest of the team may have one guy hitting if the team is lucky and you see that reasoning as an excuse? Please explain...
How about this? Put Lamar in the low post and allow him to find people from there. Brian at the high post and Kobe on the wing, with Smush cutting? You guys just hate Odom on what you see in the role he is trying to play now. You pay no attention to his skillset level and that is ashame... |
the Lakers did put Lamar in the post...we actually got something out of it. Which reinforces my argument that Lamar is no point. Put him in the post.
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K8KillerInstinct
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | K8KillerInstinct wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | K8KillerInstinct wrote: | | Yeah, Lamar is good but he just doesnt fit with the Lakers. We need to trade him for a real PG like Chris Paul ( I wish |
You think that this current squad will suddenly start lighting up the shots with the sudden arrival of Paul?
The logic on that is comical... |
No I am not saying that, but dont you think we would be BETTER than now if we had a real PG (someone who can create shots, make shots, obviously pass).
I agree Lamar is great, but he doesn't fit our current needs. He will NEVER BE the Pippen, phil talked about. |
With Chris Paul, and I'm guessing that would mean no Smush coming off the bench, then I'd guess this team would be about two, maybe three games better than thy are right now, all other things being exactly the same. So really, just the same mediorcre team. Hate to break it to ya, but .500 is phenomenal for a team in rebuilding mode with the least amount of overall talent in the league. Phenomenal.... |
Yeah I guess we lakers fan should get use to this .500 or below trend. But its just so hard because of the sudden downfall. From the FINALS --> Lottery 
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