John Ireland sugggests the Lakers trade the #2 pick for an All-Star. Says Ingram reminds him of Tayshaun Prince.
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AllorNothing
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:30 am    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Snipes wrote:
I think Mitch wants Okafor and is willing to trade the #2 for it. Doubt Philly bites.

Okafor
Randle
Barnes or Batum
Clarkson
Dlo



We know that Mitch didn't want Okafor, no matter what you dream up.



Mitch "didn't want Okafor" is not true. He did not want Okafor for the #2 pick AHEAD of Dlo. He's taking Okafor if he has the #3 pick. And the #3 pick in last years draft is far ahead of the #2 pick in this year's draft. If Okafor's stock hadn't fall so hard this year due to all his issues, this trade would get laughed at. So you assuming Mitch didn't want Okafor is as dream up as my scenario of us trying to get Jahlil.

I thought Porzingis would have been Mitch's 3rd choice.
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:47 am    Post subject:

AllorNothing wrote:
Snipes wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Snipes wrote:
I think Mitch wants Okafor and is willing to trade the #2 for it. Doubt Philly bites.

Okafor
Randle
Barnes or Batum
Clarkson
Dlo



We know that Mitch didn't want Okafor, no matter what you dream up.



Mitch "didn't want Okafor" is not true. He did not want Okafor for the #2 pick AHEAD of Dlo. He's taking Okafor if he has the #3 pick. And the #3 pick in last years draft is far ahead of the #2 pick in this year's draft. If Okafor's stock hadn't fall so hard this year due to all his issues, this trade would get laughed at. So you assuming Mitch didn't want Okafor is as dream up as my scenario of us trying to get Jahlil.

I thought Porzingis would have been Mitch's 3rd choice.


Yeah. Case closed.
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ainsley
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:43 pm    Post subject:

WHATSHISFACE wrote:
ainsley wrote:
If 18 year old Kobe was entering this year's draft what roleplayer would Ireland compare him to?


This right here is my whole point of posting. Your statement reeks of misunderstanding the whole premise or Ireland's argument. Ireland never compared Ingram to Prince. But because the misleading thread title everyone has gone to rabid frothing of the mouth and refusal to understand what he actually was saying.

He was simply using Prince as the mathematical mean when it came to #2 draft picks in the last decade. He was literally saying Prince was an average NBA player. Not Ingram. He never compared Prince and Ingram. Or Prince and Simmons.

I am not arguing about whether or not we should trade the pick. I am not saying Ingram or Simmons won't become a superstar.

I am simply stating that this whole thread is built on a false and ridiculous interpretation of a radio segment and you're all being idiots for trashing Ireland for something he didn't say.


What is the point of looking at the average star power players selected #2 over a decade if it's a different GM selecting every time? It literally tells you nothing. If Jerry West were given 10 #2 picks in a row I'm sure his star power mean would be much high than if Joe Dumars were picking
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject:

WHATSHISFACE wrote:
ainsley wrote:
If 18 year old Kobe was entering this year's draft what roleplayer would Ireland compare him to?


This right here is my whole point of posting. Your statement reeks of misunderstanding the whole premise or Ireland's argument. Ireland never compared Ingram to Prince. But because the misleading thread title everyone has gone to rabid frothing of the mouth and refusal to understand what he actually was saying.

He was simply using Prince as the mathematical mean when it came to #2 draft picks in the last decade. He was literally saying Prince was an average NBA player. Not Ingram. He never compared Prince and Ingram. Or Prince and Simmons.

I am not arguing about whether or not we should trade the pick. I am not saying Ingram or Simmons won't become a superstar.

I am simply stating that this whole thread is built on a false and ridiculous interpretation of a radio segment and you're all being idiots for trashing Ireland for something he didn't say.


You would think if you're going to take the trouble to come back, you'd maybe change up the style a little.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 am    Post subject:

WHATSHISFACE = JOHN IRELAND
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:16 am    Post subject:

WHATSHISFACE wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
You take the risk with the potential. This roster should grow together. Ireland did compare him to Prince and Mason argued back that Ingram was going to be much better than Tashauyn. If there was a star UNDER 25 for that pick? Yes, OVER 25? No thanks!


Ireland did not compare Ingram to Prince. That's just what your are misunderstanding. He is comparing previous #2 picks of the last decade to Prince because Prince is an average NBA player. Some of those picks were worse compared to Prince. Some were better. Some were about the same. Some were too early to tell. He was simply using that whole comparison as an example that just because you have a #2 pick doesn't mean you are guaranteed a star.

Let me be clear. In no way did Ireland compare Ingram to Prince. Ireland uses Prince as an NBA average player to compare previous #2 picks and where they landed on the landscape of talent distribution.

If you want this thread to be about not trading the #2 pick, that's fine. But you're misconstruing and subverting Ireland's whole point and everyone has taken up the crusade and it's all laughably ridiculous.


Ease up John. You basically said you would deal the pick because the probability is that #2 picks usually turn up as Hasheem Thabeet. It's up for discussion. Don't get all riled up because I didn't analyze my listening skills misconstruing your lame opinion of dealing the pick at all costs to avoid drafting the next Thabeet. LMAO
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 5:55 am    Post subject:

LakerEric wrote:
Ease up John. You basically said you would deal the pick because the probability is that #2 picks usually turn up as Hasheem Thabeet. It's up for discussion. Don't get all riled up because I didn't analyze my listening skills misconstruing your lame opinion of dealing the pick at all costs to avoid drafting the next Thabeet. LMAO


Yep, and I already pointed out that there were elite players in just about every draft from the 2 to 5 spot. That assuming that whoever was chosen at 2 would be the same exact choice had the Lakers been the ones scouting that slot is silly. Ireland's theory only makes sense if there aren't any elite players in the draft after the top spot and we know that's never the case. Falling in line with the "consensus" pick at number 2 is what bad teams do to stay bad. Sometimes it turns out, sometimes they continue being bad. Rely on your own scouting, especially if you have good scouts rather than who "everyone" seems to think should be drafted.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject:

I'm going to be honest here and go out on a limb, but I truly think the Lakers also would love to get that pick back from last year and trade for Okafor as well.
As much as I would love to have Simmons, I truly be he and Randle are redundant. If we could somehow trade away Randle and bring in Simmons, I'm ok, but in theory the are replications of each other. Okafor would definitely be the Center of the future and maybe Luke might have to bring back the triangle or some type of hybrid.
Okafor is worth the Pic and could have easily gone 1-2 last year, but teams made what they felt was the best decision. He's a true low post player which is very rare in today's NBA.
I'd take Okafor and that's it, if we were to trade the pic. I would only do it, if Philly can get another team involved or we get something else out of it either for now or the future.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject:

LakerEric wrote:
Don't get all riled up because I didn't analyze my listening skills misconstruing your lame opinion of dealing the pick at all costs to avoid drafting the next Thabeet.


This is an ass backwards way of saying what...that i can't comprehend how you interpreted Ireland wrong? I can, because it was a very long explanation and Mason interrupted multiple times and made it confusing. Ireland wasn't even saying he didn't want the pick. He's just saying that we have to balance the potential of a pick being a superstar, average player, or bust against that of a current bona fide star. If someone were to offer Cousins for the #2 and Randle, you have to at least consider it.

Also, I don't really give a (bleep) about who you think I am. What bothers me is people trashing someone because YOU got your panties in a twist over a comparison that never happened.

FanOfFour wrote:
Yep, and I already pointed out that there were elite players in just about every draft from the 2 to 5 spot. That assuming that whoever was chosen at 2 would be the same exact choice had the Lakers been the ones scouting that slot is silly. Ireland's theory only makes sense if there aren't any elite players in the draft after the top spot and we know that's never the case. Falling in line with the "consensus" pick at number 2 is what bad teams do to stay bad. Sometimes it turns out, sometimes they continue being bad. Rely on your own scouting, especially if you have good scouts rather than who "everyone" seems to think should be drafted.



Yes, you pointed out, then I responded, then you ignored and reiterated you pointed out. Even assuming the Lakers have the best scouts in the league, one can never be sure how a pick will turn out. There is no guarantee.[b] It's not about scouting. It's about how they develop.

Once again, it's not about the pick or who we pick. Ireland's whole point was centered around potential vs. realized potential.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Snipes wrote:
I think Mitch wants Okafor and is willing to trade the #2 for it. Doubt Philly bites.

Okafor
Randle
Barnes or Batum
Clarkson
Dlo



We know that Mitch didn't want Okafor, no matter what you dream up.



Mitch "didn't want Okafor" is not true. He did not want Okafor for the #2 pick AHEAD of Dlo. He's taking Okafor if he has the #3 pick. And the #3 pick in last years draft is far ahead of the #2 pick in this year's draft. If Okafor's stock hadn't fall so hard this year due to all his issues, this trade would get laughed at. So you assuming Mitch didn't want Okafor is as dream up as my scenario of us trying to get Jahlil.


No, the order was Towns, DLO and Porzingis. Maybe Okafor then, maybe not. But it was reported that Porzingis was ranked ahead of Okafor.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:58 am    Post subject:

LakerEric wrote:
WHATSHISFACE wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
You take the risk with the potential. This roster should grow together. Ireland did compare him to Prince and Mason argued back that Ingram was going to be much better than Tashauyn. If there was a star UNDER 25 for that pick? Yes, OVER 25? No thanks!


Ireland did not compare Ingram to Prince. That's just what your are misunderstanding. He is comparing previous #2 picks of the last decade to Prince because Prince is an average NBA player. Some of those picks were worse compared to Prince. Some were better. Some were about the same. Some were too early to tell. He was simply using that whole comparison as an example that just because you have a #2 pick doesn't mean you are guaranteed a star.

Let me be clear. In no way did Ireland compare Ingram to Prince. Ireland uses Prince as an NBA average player to compare previous #2 picks and where they landed on the landscape of talent distribution.

If you want this thread to be about not trading the #2 pick, that's fine. But you're misconstruing and subverting Ireland's whole point and everyone has taken up the crusade and it's all laughably ridiculous.


Ease up John. You basically said you would deal the pick because the probability is that #2 picks usually turn up as Hasheem Thabeet. It's up for discussion. Don't get all riled up because I didn't analyze my listening skills misconstruing your lame opinion of dealing the pick at all costs to avoid drafting the next Thabeet. LMAO


That was not what was said. Not even close.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:


You would think if you're going to take the trouble to come back, you'd maybe change up the style a little.


Not sure I understand?
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:03 pm    Post subject:

Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:32 am    Post subject:

LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.



So if Ingram goes first and we draft Simmons and the Bucs call and propose:

KMiddleton
JHenson

for

BSimmons
ABrown

what exactly you do then?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:33 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.



So if Ingram goes first and we draft Simmons and the Bucs call and propose:

KMiddleton
JHenson

for

BSimmons
ABrown

what exactly you do then?


We hang up the phone.

Only one that gets the conversation started is Giannis.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:56 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Snipes wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Snipes wrote:
I think Mitch wants Okafor and is willing to trade the #2 for it. Doubt Philly bites.

Okafor
Randle
Barnes or Batum
Clarkson
Dlo



We know that Mitch didn't want Okafor, no matter what you dream up.



Mitch "didn't want Okafor" is not true. He did not want Okafor for the #2 pick AHEAD of Dlo. He's taking Okafor if he has the #3 pick. And the #3 pick in last years draft is far ahead of the #2 pick in this year's draft. If Okafor's stock hadn't fall so hard this year due to all his issues, this trade would get laughed at. So you assuming Mitch didn't want Okafor is as dream up as my scenario of us trying to get Jahlil.


No, the order was Towns, DLO and Porzingis. Maybe Okafor then, maybe not. But it was reported that Porzingis was ranked ahead of Okafor.


If someone is your 4th choice it doesn't means you don't like him, you just like other guys better and after a year it can change. I find it strange, you call someone the 5th best rookie of a class and some guys call it hate. It's not hate you just think there are better options at this moments and a top 5 rookie is far from a bust.

Look at Turner, if you re-draft today it's possible he is going early, the same with Jokic.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:57 am    Post subject:

LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.


This
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject:

John Ireland will be in for a pretty rude awakening when the season starts.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerican wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.



So if Ingram goes first and we draft Simmons and the Bucs call and propose:

KMiddleton
JHenson

for

BSimmons
ABrown

what exactly you do then?


We hang up the phone.

Only one that gets the conversation started is Giannis.


And if Mitch does that, then is a very lousy GM. See, all is about absolute value vs. relative value. For you, the Greek Freak is without doubt the best buck player that can play SF, all this based in the eye test; without checking first and then realizing that although how amazing he plays, what awful is his 3pt shooting is (16% & 25% in his last 2 full seasons). Then, you have in contrast, a career 40% 3 pt shooter in Middleton who BTW, shoot only 31% in his 1st year limited action with Detroit before being dealt to the Bucks along side to BKight for BJennings. This being very similar to ABrown with us last year, hence I include ABrown in the trade.

He will say, I will call you later and consult with his new coach and although, they wil eventually pass on the trade, they will do their homework.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:16 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerican wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.



So if Ingram goes first and we draft Simmons and the Bucs call and propose:

KMiddleton
JHenson

for

BSimmons
ABrown

what exactly you do then?


We hang up the phone.

Only one that gets the conversation started is Giannis.


And if Mitch does that, then is a very lousy GM. See, all is about absolute value vs. relative value. For you, the Greek Freak is without doubt the best buck player that can play SF, all this based in the eye test; without checking first and then realizing that although how amazing he plays, what awful is his 3pt shooting is (16% & 25% in his last 2 full seasons). Then, you have in contrast, a career 40% 3 pt shooter in Middleton who BTW, shoot only 31% in his 1st year limited action with Detroit before being dealt to the Bucks along side to BKight for BJennings. This being very similar to ABrown with us last year, hence I include ABrown in the trade.

He will say, I will call you later and consult with his new coach and although, they wil eventually pass on the trade, they will do their homework.


I like Middleton but he's not worth a 2nd pick.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:51 pm    Post subject:

evetssteve10 wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
Oliver Reed wrote:
Why is Mike Dunleavy Jr. name keep being brought up when talking about Ingram? If Ingram turned into MDJ the Lakers would be destroyed. That horror is something that can not happen. So, stop talking about it.

Ingram needs to be our Durant. Russell will be our Harden with better vision. That is a pretty damn good draft in back to back drafts.

Lakers surround those guys with excellent vets at key positions and the Lakers have a shot at creating some serious noise the next few years.


I question Russell having better vision than Harden. Harden just averaged 7.5 assists as a two guard to go along with 29 points.


I believe Russell will be a 10 assist PG if the right coaching is there to make it happen for him.

I include decision making into vision equation and imo harden fails there where dlo is elite


Russell made poor decision after poor decision this year along with terrible pass after terrible pass. He isn't in the same breath as Harden in any aspect of the game of basketball at this point of his career, Harden just averaged 29 and 7.5 assists.


You just compared the stats of a 19 year old rookie who barely played before all star to someone who plays 38 mins a game and has been playing for several years


What do you expect to happen when someone tries to compare that twenty year old rookie to a mvp candidate. Saying Russell has better vision than Harden is just laughable at this point, especially when even Huertas seemed to be able to find easy shots for teammates better than Russell.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerican wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.



So if Ingram goes first and we draft Simmons and the Bucs call and propose:

KMiddleton
JHenson

for

BSimmons
ABrown

what exactly you do then?


We hang up the phone.

Only one that gets the conversation started is Giannis.


And if Mitch does that, then is a very lousy GM. See, all is about absolute value vs. relative value. For you, the Greek Freak is without doubt the best buck player that can play SF, all this based in the eye test; without checking first and then realizing that although how amazing he plays, what awful is his 3pt shooting is (16% & 25% in his last 2 full seasons). Then, you have in contrast, a career 40% 3 pt shooter in Middleton who BTW, shoot only 31% in his 1st year limited action with Detroit before being dealt to the Bucks along side to BKight for BJennings. This being very similar to ABrown with us last year, hence I include ABrown in the trade.

He will say, I will call you later and consult with his new coach and although, they wil eventually pass on the trade, they will do their homework.
No one is trading you the number two pick for Middleton and Henson , heck, no one in their right mind will give you a top5 pick for that package.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm    Post subject:

LakerEric wrote:
WHATSHISFACE = JOHN IRELAND
Imho, Manlisten = Ireland. He's often missing in action but his screen name (what does he do at work?), verbiage, and arguments are an exact match.

Also, Reflexx= Ramona Shelburne. After I had already recognized Ireland from a previouis thread, he showed up again in an Ireland is an idiot thread (when Ramona was still working at 710) along with a very wordy, double negative talking guy (forgot the screename) who acted like he was smarter than everyone this side of the equator, and I suspected he was Kellerman. Together they defended Ireland like a mother bear. He regularly argued on the air against the wisdom of tanking, mocking and demeaning the value of the draft pick that turned into Julius Randle.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject:

No offense to Ireland and Billy Mac, I love Billy Mac, he is a nice guy who has been around a long time, since the Prime Ticket days. As a matter of fact, I think Billy Mac would bring me back to watching that Borefest on TWCSN if he were to be the lead anchor there. With that, Lakers need to bring back Spero Dedes and do a simulcast with Stu and Mychael Thompson.

I know Spero wants to do the NFL but you gotta make it work. That guy is perfect for LA and did a great job when he was here.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerican wrote:
LakerEric wrote:
Don't trade the pick unless you get a 25 and under star. Not going to happen IMHO. Draft Ingram and life is terrific! I'm not going to argue with VLF and John Ireland on how his interpretation was misheard or whatever. I heard it the way I heard it. That's all that matters and how all of you heard it...hey...more power to you and I'm not here to tell you "how" to interpret something. Micro-analyze everyone as much as you damn well want.


DRAFT INGRAM OR SIMMONS IF HE FALLS.



So if Ingram goes first and we draft Simmons and the Bucs call and propose:

KMiddleton
JHenson

for

BSimmons
ABrown

what exactly you do then?


We hang up the phone.

Only one that gets the conversation started is Giannis.


And if Mitch does that, then is a very lousy GM. See, all is about absolute value vs. relative value. For you, the Greek Freak is without doubt the best buck player that can play SF, all this based in the eye test; without checking first and then realizing that although how amazing he plays, what awful is his 3pt shooting is (16% & 25% in his last 2 full seasons). Then, you have in contrast, a career 40% 3 pt shooter in Middleton who BTW, shoot only 31% in his 1st year limited action with Detroit before being dealt to the Bucks along side to BKight for BJennings. This being very similar to ABrown with us last year, hence I include ABrown in the trade.

He will say, I will call you later and consult with his new coach and although, they wil eventually pass on the trade, they will do their homework.


Come on man, nobody is trading the #2 pick for role players. Seriously, just because Middleton is a better 3pt shooter you'd ask for him over Giannis?
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