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shnxx
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Omar Little
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 Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Thought provoking stuff.
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Troublesome626
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: |
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man the thread title lol
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shnxx
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Troublesome626 wrote: | | man the thread title lol |
LOL. It's shocking isn't it? But I merely copied and pasted the original article's title except the phrase "mission impossible." |
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methdxman
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: |
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This is a class issue not a race issue. I'm sure Jason Williams (White Chocolate) also didn't (bleep) with analytics.
Most black NBA players likely grew up in lower class homes (i have no source for this, but probably a good deal did) where their parents really didn't put much emphasis on sound decision making based on careful risk analysis, etc. People are just trying to make ends meet and do their best to raise their kids. Lower class people also tend to make poorer choices overall in life, especially when it comes to things like money (numbers) and others. Again, not ALL lower class people make bad decisions, but it is a trend.
Now a guy like Kobe who had the benefit growing up in a wealthy household, amongst affluent neighbors, etc. is probably a guy who in this day and age would get down with analytics due to his relatively privileged upbringing and being genreally surrounded by people who have the luxury of being able to carefully make decisions while weighing risks.
How does this relate to analytics? It's all about shaping your behavior through facts and interpretation of the best data you have in hand. This "faith" in analytics only can really exist for people who have first-hand experience in being able to be patient and ponder things carefully. Poorer people have never had this luxury. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Wilbon is trying to act like numbers are African American kryptonite. |
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shnxx
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: | This is a class issue not a race issue. I'm sure Jason Williams (White Chocolate) also didn't (bleep) with analytics.
Most black NBA players likely grew up in lower class homes (i have no source for this, but probably a good deal did) where their parents really didn't put much emphasis on sound decision making based on careful risk analysis, etc. People are just trying to make ends meet and do their best to raise their kids. Lower class people also tend to make poorer choices overall in life, especially when it comes to things like money (numbers) and others. Again, not ALL lower class people make bad decisions, but it is a trend.
Now a guy like Kobe who had the benefit growing up in a wealthy household, amongst affluent neighbors, etc. is probably a guy who in this day and age would get down with analytics due to his relatively privileged upbringing and being genreally surrounded by people who have the luxury of being able to carefully make decisions while weighing risks.
How does this relate to analytics? It's all about shaping your behavior through facts and interpretation of the best data you have in hand. This "faith" in analytics only can really exist for people who have first-hand experience in being able to be patient and ponder things carefully. Poorer people have never had this luxury. |
There is probably a cultural clash in the NBA right now between the data analytics folks and the traditionalists.
Analytics people come from STEM backgrounds and are probably nerds.
These people are probably beginning to get more and more prominence within the NBA organizational hierarchy, which must be unsettling to traditionalists such as Michael Wilbon or Byron Scott.
Unfortunately for Byron Scotts of the world, the NBA is big business and data analytics will continue to play a vital role in the NBA, so the best coaches, GM's and to some extent, players will be the ones who may not be data analysts themselves but at least are able to implement them.
What is amazing is that these aren't exactly fancy statistics to begin with.
We simply have more data than we previously did and due to the increased data, we can segment things like field goals into different groups for analysis, but in the end, they're still very simple stats that a high school student should be able to understand. |
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defense
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Think what he meant was dumb athletes |
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, FG pct, etc are analytics.
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Gatekeeper
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shnxx
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: |
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"Analytics are just stats."
That is correct. Chuck is always somewhat insightful. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| guess different people have different standard of what terms/labels are deemed acceptable. This came up yesterday when Omar called steven adams dirty white player. it bothered me like this bothers me but my standard is not everybody's and I'm no expert in race relation. So if majority think it's acceptable then maybe they are |
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shnxx
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | guess different people have different standard of what terms/labels are deemed acceptable. This came up yesterday when Omar called steven adams dirty white player. it bothered me like this bothers me but my standard is not everybody's and I'm no expert in race relation. So if majority think it's acceptable then maybe they are |
To me, that's a racist statement, as is this Wilbon's statement about black people and stats.
If you judge primarily based on race rather than merits that tends toward racism, although it may not be negative (e.g. saying black people are good at basketball is a race-based statement but a positive one). |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Shane Battier and Kobe Bryant come to mind. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Great article. I agree with Wilbon.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Why would players talk about analytics? Seriously. That is like asking why lumberjacks don't talk about their companies' production stats. Players talk about how to do their jobs on the ground (or more specifically, on the court). Analytics enters the fray in the context of player selection, drafting, coaching, and the like. Some players (Shane Battier, for instance) are going to connect directly with the statistical information. Others aren't. However, even the ones who do not directly connect with the statistical information are going to be influenced by it. It just gets filtered through the front office and the coaching staff.
Do white fans talk about analytics? Okay, there are a few of us who like to talk about analytics and have done so over the years. Maybe most of us are white. I don't know. I only know the race of a few posters on this board. However, my sense is that at least 90% of the posters on the board could give a flip about analytics (beyond the generic angst that we might be falling behind on analytics as an organization because we didn't go to the MIT thingee, yada yada yada). When I talk to other white fans in real life, we don't sip our tea, listen to country music, and talk about VORP during a break in the NASCAR action. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I don't think most players have a quant background; hell, many players whose backgrounds spring to mind didn't even graduate college, let alone have a quant-oriented major prior to leaving (let alone graduating) school. They don't need to be quants, they need to work on individual elements of their games. Their knowledge needs to be tactical, rather than strategic.
The Sloan Conference targets front office personnel and coaches, as they thirst for any edge. That's a different audience, and regardless of educational background, they (unlike players) are in a need-to-know position due to their reliance on the strategic elements of team composition, offensive/defensive roles and orientation and ultimately salaries. |
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TDRock
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: |
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When I saw the thread title I was like yeah OK my dad and two of my brothers are all mathematicians/engineers so LOL on that.
But I don't know if people are reacting to the article or to the thread title because the article is actually more nuanced and more interesting than that. That's not saying that Blacks cannot understand analytics or their socioeconomic background or education or anything like that, it's saying that for various reasons Black folks aren't tending to utilize and discuss analytics, and what are the larger ramifications of that.
Interesting article, thanks for posting. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Wilbon needs to supply me with some actual, non-anecdotal data on the problem 
...instead of a couple of interviews with players and a fellow journalist.
This quote probably should be pointed out:
| Quote: | | “So many front offices are staffed by guys like me, who didn’t play the game, who didn’t come in through the coaching ranks … Don’t tell me that there are no black people who are good at math. There are black people who expert at qualitative analysis,” Elhassan said. “I worry that it becomes a way to exclude. Don’t tell me there aren’t any black people on Wall Street who are passionate about basketball. These people exist. Wall Streeters, people with qualitative analysis backgrounds. I know them. I went to school with them. I just don’t believe that one ethnicity is more predisposed to this than another. You realize, of course, that this is the new gateway into the game … into sports?” |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | Wilbon needs to supply me with some actual, non-anecdotal data on the problem
...instead of a couple of interviews with players and a fellow journalist.
This quote probably should be pointed out:
| Quote: | | “So many front offices are staffed by guys like me, who didn’t play the game, who didn’t come in through the coaching ranks … Don’t tell me that there are no black people who are good at math. There are black people who expert at qualitative analysis,” Elhassan said. “I worry that it becomes a way to exclude. Don’t tell me there aren’t any black people on Wall Street who are passionate about basketball. These people exist. Wall Streeters, people with qualitative analysis backgrounds. I know them. I went to school with them. I just don’t believe that one ethnicity is more predisposed to this than another. You realize, of course, that this is the new gateway into the game … into sports?” |
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Yep. It gives nerds who were never able to get a seat at the "kewl" kids table a way to finally take a seat at the kewl kids table.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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LakerLuke
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Phil is anti-analytics. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Do people of other skin color talk about analytics a lot in normal sports conversations? I identify as "white" and when talking about last nights game +/- or true shooting % almost never come up. People don't watch sports so they can hope their favorite teams fulfill some statistical category, other than a W. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | When I saw the thread title I was like yeah OK my dad and two of my brothers are all mathematicians/engineers so LOL on that.
But I don't know if people are reacting to the article or to the thread title because the article is actually more nuanced and more interesting than that. That's not saying that Blacks cannot understand analytics or their socioeconomic background or education or anything like that, it's saying that for various reasons Black folks aren't tending to utilize and discuss analytics, and what are the larger ramifications of that.
Interesting article, thanks for posting. |
Your relatives are the exception not the rule. There aren't a lot of minorities in the STEM which is why there are outreach programs to get more of them involved. I think a lot of it has to do with culture. Being a nerd wasn't cool only until recently, when it turned out they became billionaires and are becoming the people who are changing direction of our future. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Do people of other skin color talk about analytics a lot in normal sports conversations? I identify as "white" and when talking about last nights game +/- or true shooting % almost never come up. People don't watch sports so they can hope their favorite teams fulfill some statistical category, other than a W. |
not so much along races but among my friends who play fantasy bball vs the ones who don't, they know stats very well |
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LakerDynasty6.0
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: |
"Analytics are just stats."
That is correct. Chuck is always somewhat insightful. |
 Man that Chuck-ster! He's a riot!
An aside, This is the best use that I've seen of always and somewhat right adjacent to one another!
Chuck is always somewhat funny
Chuck is always somewhat crazy
Chuck is always somewhat clueless
Chuck is always somewhat opinionated
......
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