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| Does GSW collapse affect your confidence in Luke? |
| Yes |
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10% |
[ 22 ] |
| No |
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86% |
[ 176 ] |
| I knew this was going to happen :/ ... We are cursed |
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2% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 203 |
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DocK36
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001
Posts: 19454
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 Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | | Luke can very well come here and be a disaster. But it will be because of his inexperience, not because of the way he wants the team to play. |
we won 17 games last year, how much more of a disaster can it be?
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | I think it is pretty clear that "small ball" has some flaws which have been exposed by OKC in this series.
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That you guys think OKC is this throwback team from the 90s is amusing beyond belief. I have a secret for you: OKC is playing small ball. |
OKC is winning because they're NOT playing small ball. They are forcing the Warriors to match up to them which is why they are winning handily. |
It's just factually not accurate.
Let's just look at last night. Here was their minutes distribution, from most minutes to least:
Durant - 40:38
Westbrook - 40:30
Roberson - 40:26
Ibaka - 32:46
Waiters - 32:12
Adams - 24:41
Foye - 13:32
Kanter - 8:33
Payne - 1:58
Singler - 1:58
Morrow - 1:23
Mohammad - 1:23
Collison - DNP
Traditional bigs in bold. |
"Traditional", now you're just arguing semantics. The Thunder size is the big reason why they are giving the Warriors problems.
The only guy that's had a significant reduction in minutes is Kanter and that's because he's not as mobile as Adams. Roberson has come up huge with more minutes.
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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IS it possible the knowledge of Luke's departure is hurting the psychology of some of the players on GSW
I think there is potential for that too |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | IS it possible the knowledge of Luke's departure is hurting the psychology of some of the players on GSW
I think there is potential for that too |
Of course that's like #99 on my list of reasons LOL
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point-guard
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 282
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| a little. gsw not making any adjustments ever since their players stopped hitting impossible shots is a little concerning |
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LakerLuke
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm assuming those that voted "yes" didn't want Luke hired in the first place. |
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deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14911
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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With so many young players, I really believe Luke's the coach we need. Some fans continue to think theres a miracle fix to the situation the Lakers have carried over the past seasons; theres not. And this same fans will be bashing Luke when are season turns out to be so-so.
Winning is going to take time, so lets develop a system, a culture, grow our youth and try to enjoy the ride. High expectations on Wins will land folks at odds with Luke...when the more knowledgeable LG'rs say it will take time they aren't talking about 10 games, 50 games or even a season. There are some solid teams in the NBA, Lakers will need to grow, that growth is a process...
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KobeRe-Loaded
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Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | With so many young players, I really believe Luke's the coach we need. Some fans continue to think theres a miracle fix to the situation the Lakers have carried over the past seasons; theres not. And this same fans will be bashing Luke when are season turns out to be so-so.
Winning is going to take time, so lets develop a system, a culture, grow our youth and try to enjoy the ride. High expectations on Wins will land folks at odds with Luke...when the more knowledgeable LG'rs say it will take time they aren't talking about 10 games, 50 games or even a season. There are some solid teams in the NBA, Lakers will need to grow, that growth is a process... |
Exactly, Lakers are coming off of a 17 win season. If Luke's system helps the team improve to 30-40 wins, that's great! Big step in the right direction. I don't expect this team to be contending for a title in the next 2-3 years so whatever is happening to the Warriors in the WCF has little barring on what I think of Luke.
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frijolero01
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 13324
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| DocK36 wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | Luke can very well come here and be a disaster. But it will be because of his inexperience, not because of the way he wants the team to play. |
we won 17 games last year, how much more of a disaster can it be? |
16 games.
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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not at all. it has nothing to do with luke. the lakers have been through what the warriors are going through many times over. been there dun dat.
the warriors believed in their own hype, and their fans went nuts with it. laker fans would be way more critical about most stuff and the team would hear it. remember...we are the most entitled fans int he world. when we were trotting out kobe, pau, odom, bynum, people were hoping to get lebron by trading for ariza or something.
i think the warriors thought they were better than the 72 bulls or something. maybe pippen was right after all.
luke will be fine. who knows...maybe luke covertly sabotaged the warriors. he is a good laker boy. |
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laker4life
Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7320
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DocK36 wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | Luke can very well come here and be a disaster. But it will be because of his inexperience, not because of the way he wants the team to play. |
we won 17 games last year, how much more of a disaster can it be? |
We need more than to have a coach improve over 17 wins.
We expect Luke to help us get to the playoffs on a regular basis.
If we want to play for a championship again in the next 10 years, we need to make the playoff first. |
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LAII
Star Player
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 1934
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | Something I have read all year long about GS was that they were a horrible rebounding team but that they had changed the dynamics of the game by mitigating the need for rebounds.
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Their rebounding is totally exposed here. They're a combined -40 in the rebounding department in the 3 games they lost. Yikes! I don't see how you fix that. |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | 
Even Phil freaking Jackson got swept on playoff series.
GSW losing changes nothing. |
well that was another over-rated coach blessed with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, Pau |
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TDRock
Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49180
Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| bizarre question |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | | bizarre question |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2cMG33mWVY
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53835
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | I think it is pretty clear that "small ball" has some flaws which have been exposed by OKC in this series.
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That you guys think OKC is this throwback team from the 90s is amusing beyond belief. I have a secret for you: OKC is playing small ball. |
OKC is winning because they're NOT playing small ball. They are forcing the Warriors to match up to them which is why they are winning handily. |
It's just factually not accurate.
Let's just look at last night. Here was their minutes distribution, from most minutes to least:
Durant - 40:38
Westbrook - 40:30
Roberson - 40:26
Ibaka - 32:46
Waiters - 32:12
Adams - 24:41
Foye - 13:32
Kanter - 8:33
Payne - 1:58
Singler - 1:58
Morrow - 1:23
Mohammad - 1:23
Collison - DNP
Traditional bigs in bold. |
"Traditional", now you're just arguing semantics. The Thunder size is the big reason why they are giving the Warriors problems.
The only guy that's had a significant reduction in minutes is Kanter and that's because he's not as mobile as Adams. Roberson has come up huge with more minutes. |
It's not a semantical argument. When we talk about "small ball" it's important that we define what we're talking about. Certain people, and I'd include you in this, argue for The One True Post Big™ and advocate more posting up with as many big men as possible. The reason teams have almost universally figured out that it's better to go smaller isn't because having shorter, smaller armed big men is an advantage. It's because it's better to have a more skilled all-around flexible player in those positions than it is to have a plodding big man who wants to post up. Draymond Green isn't an incredible player to have because he's 6'7. It's because he's 6'7 and can generally hold his own against much bigger players, which allows his other skillset (rebounding, perimeter shooting, passing) to shine without losing much (if anything). If Draymond could do Draymond things and be 7ft tall then Golden State would take it. Having a 7 footer who does what Dryamond does isn't common if it exists at all. "Small ball" isn't about height, it's about a style of play that you typically can't play with a bunch of huge guys. OKC is a rare thing because it actually has a 7 footer who can do those things (Durant) and another stretch big with tremendous defensive flexibility and shooting range (Ibaka). OKC is playing what is known as "small ball", they just have incredible athletes who have size and length while being able to still play the kind of perimeter game that teams go small in order to achieve. This is not a condemnation against the style of play Golden State plays. If anything, it's a confirmation of it (not that it needed it because this issue is settled). People who want to return to post-centric offenses (such as yourself) are quick to pounce on this as evidence that GSW has been doing it all wrong. Quite the opposite.
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LAII
Star Player
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 1934
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | If anything, it's a confirmation of it (not that it needed it because this issue is settled). People who want to return to post-centric offenses (such as yourself) are quick to pounce on this as evidence that GSW has been doing it all wrong. Quite the opposite. |
I don't know about returning to a post-centric offense, but OKC's length has badly exposed Golden State's rebounding... Badly.. |
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10scott10
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 7428
Location: Making the games you play
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I still see the Warriors offense generating good shots, guys just aren't hitting shots that they have been for the last 2 seasons. |
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KobeRe-Loaded
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | I think it is pretty clear that "small ball" has some flaws which have been exposed by OKC in this series.
|
That you guys think OKC is this throwback team from the 90s is amusing beyond belief. I have a secret for you: OKC is playing small ball. |
OKC is winning because they're NOT playing small ball. They are forcing the Warriors to match up to them which is why they are winning handily. |
It's just factually not accurate.
Let's just look at last night. Here was their minutes distribution, from most minutes to least:
Durant - 40:38
Westbrook - 40:30
Roberson - 40:26
Ibaka - 32:46
Waiters - 32:12
Adams - 24:41
Foye - 13:32
Kanter - 8:33
Payne - 1:58
Singler - 1:58
Morrow - 1:23
Mohammad - 1:23
Collison - DNP
Traditional bigs in bold. |
"Traditional", now you're just arguing semantics. The Thunder size is the big reason why they are giving the Warriors problems.
The only guy that's had a significant reduction in minutes is Kanter and that's because he's not as mobile as Adams. Roberson has come up huge with more minutes. |
It's not a semantical argument. When we talk about "small ball" it's important that we define what we're talking about. Certain people, and I'd include you in this, argue for The One True Post Big™ and advocate more posting up with as many big men as possible. The reason teams have almost universally figured out that it's better to go smaller isn't because having shorter, smaller armed big men is an advantage. It's because it's better to have a more skilled all-around flexible player in those positions than it is to have a plodding big man who wants to post up. Draymond Green isn't an incredible player to have because he's 6'7. It's because he's 6'7 and can generally hold his own against much bigger players, which allows his other skillset (rebounding, perimeter shooting, passing) to shine without losing much (if anything). If Draymond could do Draymond things and be 7ft tall then Golden State would take it. Having a 7 footer who does what Dryamond does isn't common if it exists at all. "Small ball" isn't about height, it's about a style of play that you typically can't play with a bunch of huge guys. OKC is a rare thing because it actually has a 7 footer who can do those things (Durant) and another stretch big with tremendous defensive flexibility and shooting range (Ibaka). OKC is playing what is known as "small ball", they just have incredible athletes who have size and length while being able to still play the kind of perimeter game that teams go small in order to achieve. This is not a condemnation against the style of play Golden State plays. If anything, it's a confirmation of it (not that it needed it because this issue is settled). People who want to return to post-centric offenses (such as yourself) are quick to pounce on this as evidence that GSW has been doing it all wrong. Quite the opposite. |
Hmmmm.... so if I have a bunch of 6'2" and 6'4" guys blocking shots and rebounding like 7 footers can I call it BIG BALL?
I'm sorry but you are really stretching and spinning your argument. OKC has been playing their style of basketball all series. It's not "SMALL BALL", just because you have 6'10" Durant chucking 3's doesn't mean he's playing "SMALL BALL".
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29337
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've never been a fan of moving GS's style of play to our team. Mostly because we don't have 2 guard shooters on the level of Curry and Klay. And we don't have a stretch 4 on the roster.
But putting that aside, this thread is a little ridiculous.
It's a direct parallel to the argument I heard against pursuing Derozan in FA this offseason.
Teams (GS) and players (DROZ) who dominate in the regular season lose in the playoffs all the time. Just means their talent wasn't good enough in a 7 game series against a specific matchup.
We are a 17 win team.
We aren't good enough to shun successful offensive systems and successful players just cause they fall short in the playoffs.
We have to make the playoffs first before worrying about that stuff. People are worried about step 5 (championship playoff success) when we haven't completed step 1 (getting out of the bottom of the league).
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Last edited by kikanga on Wed May 25, 2016 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53835
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | I think it is pretty clear that "small ball" has some flaws which have been exposed by OKC in this series.
|
That you guys think OKC is this throwback team from the 90s is amusing beyond belief. I have a secret for you: OKC is playing small ball. |
OKC is winning because they're NOT playing small ball. They are forcing the Warriors to match up to them which is why they are winning handily. |
It's just factually not accurate.
Let's just look at last night. Here was their minutes distribution, from most minutes to least:
Durant - 40:38
Westbrook - 40:30
Roberson - 40:26
Ibaka - 32:46
Waiters - 32:12
Adams - 24:41
Foye - 13:32
Kanter - 8:33
Payne - 1:58
Singler - 1:58
Morrow - 1:23
Mohammad - 1:23
Collison - DNP
Traditional bigs in bold. |
"Traditional", now you're just arguing semantics. The Thunder size is the big reason why they are giving the Warriors problems.
The only guy that's had a significant reduction in minutes is Kanter and that's because he's not as mobile as Adams. Roberson has come up huge with more minutes. |
It's not a semantical argument. When we talk about "small ball" it's important that we define what we're talking about. Certain people, and I'd include you in this, argue for The One True Post Big™ and advocate more posting up with as many big men as possible. The reason teams have almost universally figured out that it's better to go smaller isn't because having shorter, smaller armed big men is an advantage. It's because it's better to have a more skilled all-around flexible player in those positions than it is to have a plodding big man who wants to post up. Draymond Green isn't an incredible player to have because he's 6'7. It's because he's 6'7 and can generally hold his own against much bigger players, which allows his other skillset (rebounding, perimeter shooting, passing) to shine without losing much (if anything). If Draymond could do Draymond things and be 7ft tall then Golden State would take it. Having a 7 footer who does what Dryamond does isn't common if it exists at all. "Small ball" isn't about height, it's about a style of play that you typically can't play with a bunch of huge guys. OKC is a rare thing because it actually has a 7 footer who can do those things (Durant) and another stretch big with tremendous defensive flexibility and shooting range (Ibaka). OKC is playing what is known as "small ball", they just have incredible athletes who have size and length while being able to still play the kind of perimeter game that teams go small in order to achieve. This is not a condemnation against the style of play Golden State plays. If anything, it's a confirmation of it (not that it needed it because this issue is settled). People who want to return to post-centric offenses (such as yourself) are quick to pounce on this as evidence that GSW has been doing it all wrong. Quite the opposite. |
Hmmmm.... so if I have a bunch of 6'2" and 6'4" guys blocking shots and rebounding like 7 footers can I call it BIG BALL?
I'm sorry but you are really stretching and spinning your argument. OKC has been playing their style of basketball all series. It's not "SMALL BALL", just because you have 6'10" Durant chucking 3's doesn't mean he's playing "SMALL BALL". |
You can call these things whatever you want. Your post history reveals your philosophy and you've been pretty consistent in wanting post players and traditional big guys. You look at the height of players on OKC and chalk it up to a victory of your ideology. But OKC doing what GSW does with longer players is not a validation of what you typically espouse. Even if you really want it to be. The principles of what is known as "small ball" are entirely on display by OKC.
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KobeRe-Loaded
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: |
I've never been a fan of moving GS's style of play to our team. Mostly because we don't have 2 guard shooters like on the level of Curry and Klay. And we don't have a stretch 4 on the roster.
But putting that aside, this thread is a little ridiculous.
It's a direct parallel to the argument I heard against pursuing Derozan in FA this offseason.
Teams (GS) and players (DROZ) who dominate in the regular season lose in the playoffs all the time. Just means their talent wasn't good enough in a 7 game series against a specific matchup.
We are a 17 win team.
We aren't good enough to shun successful offensive systems and successful players just cause they fall short in the playoffs.
We have to make the playoffs first before worrying about that stuff. People are worried about step 5 (championship playoff success) when we haven't completed step 1 (getting out of the bottom of the league). |
Always on the same page bruh!
3rd post of the thread
| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | How about we just get to the Playoffs?!?!?!  |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29337
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: |
You can call these things whatever you want. Your post history reveals your philosophy and you've been pretty consistent in wanting post players and traditional big guys. You look at the height of players on OKC and chalk it up to a victory of your ideology. But OKC doing what GSW does with longer players is not a validation of what you typically espouse. Even if you really want it to be. The principles of what is known as "small ball" are entirely on display by OKC. |
OKC is not running to the 3pt line for a quick 3 in 7 seconds or less (like GS). They are going straight to the basket.
OKC isn't beating GS because they spread the floor better than GS (see Roberson and Adams).
OKC isn't beating GS because they are sacrificing rim protection for smaller perimeter players playing mobile P&R defense.
OKC is beating GS because they are bigger and longer and using that advantage defensively and on the boards.
They are out rebounding GS on both sides of the ball, scoring more 2nd chance points, and scoring more effectively in the paint than their opponent.
Not characteristics normally chalked up to small ball.
GS is failing because they can only play elite 1 way. With a 6'7'' Center. OKC is the better team because they can be elite playing multiple ways. They didn't beat the best defensive team in the league last round (SAS) by going small.
OKC doesn't believe in small ball or bust like GS. GS is flawed the same way teams are flawed who can only play elite going big (MEM).
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KobeRe-Loaded
Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | I think it is pretty clear that "small ball" has some flaws which have been exposed by OKC in this series.
|
That you guys think OKC is this throwback team from the 90s is amusing beyond belief. I have a secret for you: OKC is playing small ball. |
OKC is winning because they're NOT playing small ball. They are forcing the Warriors to match up to them which is why they are winning handily. |
It's just factually not accurate.
Let's just look at last night. Here was their minutes distribution, from most minutes to least:
Durant - 40:38
Westbrook - 40:30
Roberson - 40:26
Ibaka - 32:46
Waiters - 32:12
Adams - 24:41
Foye - 13:32
Kanter - 8:33
Payne - 1:58
Singler - 1:58
Morrow - 1:23
Mohammad - 1:23
Collison - DNP
Traditional bigs in bold. |
"Traditional", now you're just arguing semantics. The Thunder size is the big reason why they are giving the Warriors problems.
The only guy that's had a significant reduction in minutes is Kanter and that's because he's not as mobile as Adams. Roberson has come up huge with more minutes. |
It's not a semantical argument. When we talk about "small ball" it's important that we define what we're talking about. Certain people, and I'd include you in this, argue for The One True Post Big™ and advocate more posting up with as many big men as possible. The reason teams have almost universally figured out that it's better to go smaller isn't because having shorter, smaller armed big men is an advantage. It's because it's better to have a more skilled all-around flexible player in those positions than it is to have a plodding big man who wants to post up. Draymond Green isn't an incredible player to have because he's 6'7. It's because he's 6'7 and can generally hold his own against much bigger players, which allows his other skillset (rebounding, perimeter shooting, passing) to shine without losing much (if anything). If Draymond could do Draymond things and be 7ft tall then Golden State would take it. Having a 7 footer who does what Dryamond does isn't common if it exists at all. "Small ball" isn't about height, it's about a style of play that you typically can't play with a bunch of huge guys. OKC is a rare thing because it actually has a 7 footer who can do those things (Durant) and another stretch big with tremendous defensive flexibility and shooting range (Ibaka). OKC is playing what is known as "small ball", they just have incredible athletes who have size and length while being able to still play the kind of perimeter game that teams go small in order to achieve. This is not a condemnation against the style of play Golden State plays. If anything, it's a confirmation of it (not that it needed it because this issue is settled). People who want to return to post-centric offenses (such as yourself) are quick to pounce on this as evidence that GSW has been doing it all wrong. Quite the opposite. |
Hmmmm.... so if I have a bunch of 6'2" and 6'4" guys blocking shots and rebounding like 7 footers can I call it BIG BALL?
I'm sorry but you are really stretching and spinning your argument. OKC has been playing their style of basketball all series. It's not "SMALL BALL", just because you have 6'10" Durant chucking 3's doesn't mean he's playing "SMALL BALL". |
You can call these things whatever you want. Your post history reveals your philosophy and you've been pretty consistent in wanting post players and traditional big guys. You look at the height of players on OKC and chalk it up to a victory of your ideology. But OKC doing what GSW does with longer players is not a validation of what you typically espouse. Even if you really want it to be. The principles of what is known as "small ball" are entirely on display by OKC. |
My post history? Jeez Louise
Sorry I want the Lakers to have a Center.... I know Roy Hibbert is a lovely player but ya know.
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67708
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Golden State's not done yet but the OKC attack has cemented my position that basketball is still a big mans game.
The inability to handle a player the caliber of Steve Adams lends to the game still being that of a big man.
Stephen Curry's and Klay Thompson's are few and very far between.
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