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| If you are guaranteed to win only the next two championships over the span of the next 10 years, would you mortgage away the future and trade away 3 out of 4 of DLo, Randle, JC, #2 Pick? |
| Yes |
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60% |
[ 56 ] |
| No |
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39% |
[ 37 ] |
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| Total Votes : 93 |
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Darth Los Angeles
Star Player
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 2181
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 Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers just finished a twenty year run that was rooted in great drafting by Jerry West. Clarkson and Randle are similar to Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. Just placeholders. We won't win titles with them. Trading them for the right piece will be the key to our next Championship.
I don't mind trading Randle or Clarkson because they aren't generation transcending talents. If it's Randle and Clarkson for a young super star like Paul George or Demarcus Cousins, I do that no problem.
You don't trade Russell or Simmons/Ingram. These guys will be superstars.
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
It's like if I started a thread that said "Byron Scott vs Luke Walton" but then in the post say ok, pretend Byron leads you to 5 championships with the same team vs Luke leading you 17 wins for those same 5 seasons. Who would you rather have? People are obviously going to choose Byron but not because they want Byron.
Same thing here. The thread title says rebuild slow vs mortgage future but what people are asked to pick is 2 titles or zero? Makes no sense. |
Excellent analogy. This is exactly how the OP question comes across to me. |
Why does it make no sense? Yes, it's not realistic, as there are no guarantees...but the basic premise is this:
2 guaranteed chips followed by a decade or so of guaranteed no chips
vs.
a decade or so of continuing on our current path with a CHANCE to win chips, but no guarantee of the 2 chips
i think that's what i was trying to ask, simply put |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| jjangx27 wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
It's like if I started a thread that said "Byron Scott vs Luke Walton" but then in the post say ok, pretend Byron leads you to 5 championships with the same team vs Luke leading you 17 wins for those same 5 seasons. Who would you rather have? People are obviously going to choose Byron but not because they want Byron.
Same thing here. The thread title says rebuild slow vs mortgage future but what people are asked to pick is 2 titles or zero? Makes no sense. |
Excellent analogy. This is exactly how the OP question comes across to me. |
Why does it make no sense? Yes, it's not realistic, as there are no guarantees...but the basic premise is this:
2 guaranteed chips followed by a decade or so of guaranteed no chips
vs.
a decade or so of continuing on our current path with a CHANCE to win chips, but no guarantee of the 2 chips
i think that's what i was trying to ask, simply put |
WHAT? You sir, are all over the place.
First page, 5th post down, this is what you said.
| jjangx27 wrote: | | i was just wondering if people would take 2 chips and trade it for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery. |
How many people do you honestly think would take 2 chips and TRADE THEM AWAY for 10 years of futility and misery? |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | . I'd rather have someone on the team to root for that was home grown, it makes you appreciate them more. |
I've never felt this way. I didn't root less for Kareem, Shaq and Gasol when they were here because they played on other teams first. I don't care if talent comes through drafting, trades or free agency. |
Fair enough. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Ask yourself the following: Who do you appreciate MORE between the following pairings a)Kareem and Magic and b)Shaq and Kobe? (Don't give a cop out answer like "I appreciate both equally" because that defeats the purpose of this exercise.) |
what's the difference between the two?
in each pairing, 1 was drafted by the team, the other was brought in via free agency/trade |
Exactly. Which one pulls at your heartstrings more?
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Fabric of United - Our Belief |
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
It's like if I started a thread that said "Byron Scott vs Luke Walton" but then in the post say ok, pretend Byron leads you to 5 championships with the same team vs Luke leading you 17 wins for those same 5 seasons. Who would you rather have? People are obviously going to choose Byron but not because they want Byron.
Same thing here. The thread title says rebuild slow vs mortgage future but what people are asked to pick is 2 titles or zero? Makes no sense. |
Excellent analogy. This is exactly how the OP question comes across to me. |
Why does it make no sense? Yes, it's not realistic, as there are no guarantees...but the basic premise is this:
2 guaranteed chips followed by a decade or so of guaranteed no chips
vs.
a decade or so of continuing on our current path with a CHANCE to win chips, but no guarantee of the 2 chips
i think that's what i was trying to ask, simply put |
WHAT? You sir, are all over the place.
First page, 5th post down, this is what you said.
| jjangx27 wrote: | | i was just wondering if people would take 2 chips and trade it for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery. |
How many people do you honestly think would take 2 chips and TRADE THEM AWAY for 10 years of futility and misery? |
wait, i don't think i'm quite following you...aren't the two things i stated the same thing? the part you quoted is the first option i stated in bold, no? |
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | . I'd rather have someone on the team to root for that was home grown, it makes you appreciate them more. |
I've never felt this way. I didn't root less for Kareem, Shaq and Gasol when they were here because they played on other teams first. I don't care if talent comes through drafting, trades or free agency. |
Fair enough. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Ask yourself the following: Who do you appreciate MORE between the following pairings a)Kareem and Magic and b)Shaq and Kobe? (Don't give a cop out answer like "I appreciate both equally" because that defeats the purpose of this exercise.) |
what's the difference between the two?
in each pairing, 1 was drafted by the team, the other was brought in via free agency/trade |
Exactly. Which one pulls at your heartstrings more? |
Not a fair question for me, since I was a bit too young to fully enjoy Showtime |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | . I'd rather have someone on the team to root for that was home grown, it makes you appreciate them more. |
I've never felt this way. I didn't root less for Kareem, Shaq and Gasol when they were here because they played on other teams first. I don't care if talent comes through drafting, trades or free agency. |
Fair enough. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Ask yourself the following: Who do you appreciate MORE between the following pairings a)Kareem and Magic and b)Shaq and Kobe? (Don't give a cop out answer like "I appreciate both equally" because that defeats the purpose of this exercise.) |
what's the difference between the two?
in each pairing, 1 was drafted by the team, the other was brought in via free agency/trade |
Exactly. Which one pulls at your heartstrings more? |
Not a fair question for me, since I was a bit too young to fully enjoy Showtime |
Well is it, "Kareem's Showtime Lakers" or "Magic's Showtime Lakers"?
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Fabric of United - Our Belief |
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Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | . I'd rather have someone on the team to root for that was home grown, it makes you appreciate them more. |
I've never felt this way. I didn't root less for Kareem, Shaq and Gasol when they were here because they played on other teams first. I don't care if talent comes through drafting, trades or free agency. |
Fair enough. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Ask yourself the following: Who do you appreciate MORE between the following pairings a)Kareem and Magic and b)Shaq and Kobe? (Don't give a cop out answer like "I appreciate both equally" because that defeats the purpose of this exercise.) |
what's the difference between the two?
in each pairing, 1 was drafted by the team, the other was brought in via free agency/trade |
Exactly. Which one pulls at your heartstrings more? |
Not a fair question for me, since I was a bit too young to fully enjoy Showtime |
Well is it, "Kareem's Showtime Lakers" or "Magic's Showtime Lakers"? |
Magic's.
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| jjangx27 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
It's like if I started a thread that said "Byron Scott vs Luke Walton" but then in the post say ok, pretend Byron leads you to 5 championships with the same team vs Luke leading you 17 wins for those same 5 seasons. Who would you rather have? People are obviously going to choose Byron but not because they want Byron.
Same thing here. The thread title says rebuild slow vs mortgage future but what people are asked to pick is 2 titles or zero? Makes no sense. |
Excellent analogy. This is exactly how the OP question comes across to me. |
Why does it make no sense? Yes, it's not realistic, as there are no guarantees...but the basic premise is this:
2 guaranteed chips followed by a decade or so of guaranteed no chips
vs.
a decade or so of continuing on our current path with a CHANCE to win chips, but no guarantee of the 2 chips
i think that's what i was trying to ask, simply put |
WHAT? You sir, are all over the place.
First page, 5th post down, this is what you said.
| jjangx27 wrote: | | i was just wondering if people would take 2 chips and trade it for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery. |
How many people do you honestly think would take 2 chips and TRADE THEM AWAY for 10 years of futility and misery? |
wait, i don't think i'm quite following you...aren't the two things i stated the same thing? the part you quoted is the first option i stated in bold, no? |
Do you not understand the meaning of the word "guarantee"?
You said "10 years of guaranteed futility and misery" and then in the bolded, you said a CHANCE to win chips.
WHICH IS IT? |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | . I'd rather have someone on the team to root for that was home grown, it makes you appreciate them more. |
I've never felt this way. I didn't root less for Kareem, Shaq and Gasol when they were here because they played on other teams first. I don't care if talent comes through drafting, trades or free agency. |
Fair enough. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Ask yourself the following: Who do you appreciate MORE between the following pairings a)Kareem and Magic and b)Shaq and Kobe? (Don't give a cop out answer like "I appreciate both equally" because that defeats the purpose of this exercise.) |
what's the difference between the two?
in each pairing, 1 was drafted by the team, the other was brought in via free agency/trade |
Exactly. Which one pulls at your heartstrings more? |
Not a fair question for me, since I was a bit too young to fully enjoy Showtime |
Well is it, "Kareem's Showtime Lakers" or "Magic's Showtime Lakers"? |
Magic's. |
Bingo.
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Manchester United | Greatest European Moments
Fabric of United - Our Belief |
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
It's like if I started a thread that said "Byron Scott vs Luke Walton" but then in the post say ok, pretend Byron leads you to 5 championships with the same team vs Luke leading you 17 wins for those same 5 seasons. Who would you rather have? People are obviously going to choose Byron but not because they want Byron.
Same thing here. The thread title says rebuild slow vs mortgage future but what people are asked to pick is 2 titles or zero? Makes no sense. |
Excellent analogy. This is exactly how the OP question comes across to me. |
Why does it make no sense? Yes, it's not realistic, as there are no guarantees...but the basic premise is this:
2 guaranteed chips followed by a decade or so of guaranteed no chips
vs.
a decade or so of continuing on our current path with a CHANCE to win chips, but no guarantee of the 2 chips
i think that's what i was trying to ask, simply put |
WHAT? You sir, are all over the place.
First page, 5th post down, this is what you said.
| jjangx27 wrote: | | i was just wondering if people would take 2 chips and trade it for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery. |
How many people do you honestly think would take 2 chips and TRADE THEM AWAY for 10 years of futility and misery? |
wait, i don't think i'm quite following you...aren't the two things i stated the same thing? the part you quoted is the first option i stated in bold, no? |
Do you not understand the meaning of the word "guarantee"?
You said "10 years of guaranteed futility and misery" and then in the bolded, you said a CHANCE to win chips.
WHICH IS IT? |
Like i stated, the first option would be winning two chips and then guaranteed no chips for the rest of the decade...the second option is not trading away the youth, continuing the rebuild, with no guarantee of chips but a chance at them...
Those are the two options...Am i not making sense? Not being rude or confrontational, just wondering if I'm not making sense and can state it better |
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | . I'd rather have someone on the team to root for that was home grown, it makes you appreciate them more. |
I've never felt this way. I didn't root less for Kareem, Shaq and Gasol when they were here because they played on other teams first. I don't care if talent comes through drafting, trades or free agency. |
Fair enough. However, let me play devil's advocate here. Ask yourself the following: Who do you appreciate MORE between the following pairings a)Kareem and Magic and b)Shaq and Kobe? (Don't give a cop out answer like "I appreciate both equally" because that defeats the purpose of this exercise.) |
what's the difference between the two?
in each pairing, 1 was drafted by the team, the other was brought in via free agency/trade |
Exactly. Which one pulls at your heartstrings more? |
Not a fair question for me, since I was a bit too young to fully enjoy Showtime |
Well is it, "Kareem's Showtime Lakers" or "Magic's Showtime Lakers"? |
Magic's. |
Bingo. |
hmmm...but some may disagree?
with Kobe and Shaq, people would probably say Kobe, with the way Shaq ended his Laker tenure and all....but with Kareem and Magic, to the best of my knowledge, there wasn't any overly malicious sentiment when Kareem's time ended |
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Gatekeeper
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 5103
Location: Southland Native
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| jjangx27 wrote: |
hmmm...but some may disagree?
with Kobe and Shaq, people would probably say Kobe, with the way Shaq ended his Laker tenure and all....but with Kareem and Magic, to the best of my knowledge, there wasn't any overly malicious sentiment when Kareem's time ended |
It's not about bad feelings, they're both respected players in the pantheon of Laker greats. I asked you a rhetorical question, if you can't answer it then I'm sorry I can't help you.
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: |
hmmm...but some may disagree?
with Kobe and Shaq, people would probably say Kobe, with the way Shaq ended his Laker tenure and all....but with Kareem and Magic, to the best of my knowledge, there wasn't any overly malicious sentiment when Kareem's time ended |
It's not about bad feelings, they're both respected players in the pantheon of Laker greats. I asked you a rhetorical question, if you can't answer it then I'm sorry I can't help you. |
originally, i had misunderstood your question...i thought you meant which pairing people appreciated more between kareem/magic vs. shaq/kobe...
but understanding now what you were asking...is it really a rhetorical question? why should it be magic's showtime lakers? true it may be "magic's" for many, but maybe that had more to do with magic's personality vs. kareem's instead of being homegrown vs. not? |
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ElginBaylor
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 10775
Location: Hoosier Nation
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:15 am Post subject: |
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First, this is a silly poll. Second, the idea of guaranteeing years with no hope of winning a chip in return for 2 chips is even sillier. Who here doesn't entertain the idea of building another Lakers dynasty with at least another three-peat to add to the franchise's legacy? Right now we have a good young core and a promising new coach. That's a solid foundation to build on. It would be stupid to throw that away with some sort of deal with the devil.
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jjangx27
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | First, this is a silly poll. Second, the idea of guaranteeing years with no hope of winning a chip in return for 2 chips is even sillier. Who here doesn't entertain the idea of building another Lakers dynasty with at least another three-peat to add to the franchise's legacy? Right now we have a good young core and a promising new coach. That's a solid foundation to build on. It would be stupid to throw that away with some sort of deal with the devil. |
yes, it's a silly poll. but you wouldn't take the 2 championships and run if given the chance? |
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jjangx27 wrote: | Like i stated, the first option would be winning two chips and then guaranteed no chips for the rest of the decade...the second option is not trading away the youth, continuing the rebuild, with no guarantee of chips but a chance at them...
Those are the two options...Am i not making sense? Not being rude or confrontational, just wondering if I'm not making sense and can state it better |
YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE.
Above you said "no guarantee of chips but a chance at them"
On the first page, you said "i was just wondering if people would take 2 chips and trade it for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery."
So which is it?
Bahhhh, who cares, this poll sucks! |
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venturalakersfan
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Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | There's no guarantee we would win here if we had KD and Horford. I would rather we remain patient and stay with the rebuild. |
Where it would be guaranteed we would not win
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jjangx27
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jjangx27 wrote: | Like i stated, the first option would be winning two chips and then guaranteed no chips for the rest of the decade...the second option is not trading away the youth, continuing the rebuild, with no guarantee of chips but a chance at them...
Those are the two options...Am i not making sense? Not being rude or confrontational, just wondering if I'm not making sense and can state it better |
YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE.
Above you said "no guarantee of chips but a chance at them"
On the first page, you said "i was just wondering if people would take 2 chips and trade it for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery."
So which is it?
Bahhhh, who cares, this poll sucks! |
yea...I'm asking which one you'd prefer....?
"no guarantee of chips but a chance you may win some" or "guaranteed 2 chips in exchange for 10 years of guaranteed futility and misery."
am i really not making sense to everyone else too? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | There's no guarantee we would win here if we had KD and Horford. I would rather we remain patient and stay with the rebuild. |
Where it would be guaranteed we would not win |
I think Dave20 is talking about reality, in which there are never guarantees. |
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petergr
Star Player
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Posts: 1525
Location: kiki
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Wrong question. When we don't have a solid core, trading away the future does not guarantee 2 championships. It will only guarantee Brooklyn Nets future. |
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jjangx27
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 2456
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| petergr wrote: | | Wrong question. When we don't have a solid core, trading away the future does not guarantee 2 championships. It will only guarantee Brooklyn Nets future. |
Not necessarily...the main reason Brooklyn us in the mess they're in right now is that they traded all their picks along with their young players |
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1hu2ren3dui4
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Well I t's likely that these players aren't even part of the next title team anyway. |
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waterman40
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Posts: 6287
Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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It's a flawed argument - you are only mortgaging the future, if you get some win now players like a Lebron, Durant, think players in top 1-3 "teams" as announced after the regular season. Like you were Leonard from San Antonio for Clarkson and Randle, or getting Cousins for the same basic deal.
We are building slowly for the future and HOPING to get a max. player to sign here, which is something we haven't been able to do the past few years, like Alridge or when Howard left for less money.
I think the Luke plan is to, yeah take a stab at Durant, etc., but make a play for Horford or Whietside, or Ezell, draft Ingram and continue the rebuild, but with Luke's offense, not Byron Scott. I think the young players will play better and harder for Luke. |
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PurpleAndGOAT
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1351
Location: City of Angels
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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2 rings in 10 years is a success. Considering that's around what you would hope the young core accomplishes anyway.
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