| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Steve007
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13221
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: Jerry West: Negativity surrounding Lebron James 'is so unjust and so unfair' |
|
|
It's interesting to hear what West thinks because he was 1-8 in the Finals. And I didn't know that West even thought about quitting. I don't remember Miami being an underdog against Dallas so I think he is clearly wrong about Lebron always being an underdog in the Finals (that's just one series though, I think Miami was at least a slight favorite in one of the series against the Spurs but I'm not as sure about that). I can think of 4 series when the Lebron team was an underdog: 2007 against the Spurs, 2012 against OKC, last year and this year against GS.
| Quote: | | “With him, the negativity that surrounds him, honestly, to me, I think is so unjust and so unfair. Take him off of the team and see how these teams do. That’s all you have to do. Take him off. And it frustrates the heck out of me when I see some of these players who play this game at an enormously high level get criticized because their teams quote, ‘Can’t win the big one.’ The damn guy gets his teams there every year. He wins. For people to criticize him, I think that’s why he really resonates.” |
| Quote: | | And I said: ‘Jesus Christ, you think you’re frustrated? How would you like to get there eight times and not win?’ I told him, ‘I wanted to quit.’ In the height of my career, I wanted to quit. I was so angry, so frustrated.” |
| Quote: | | They’ve been in the Finals six straight times. How many times have they been the favorite? None. Zero, OK? Grossly unfair to him.” |
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/06/lebron-james-jerry-west-unjust-unfair-criticism-warriors-cavaliers
| Quote: | | James is trying to avoid becoming the fourth player in Finals history to lose five series. No one lost more than West, whose 1-8 Finals record with the Los Angeles Lakers dogs him to this day. |
| Quote: | | "I don't want to sound like Donald Trump, but it's hard for me to believe someone doesn't recognize his greatness. This guy does everything, and he's competitive as hell. Frankly, I wish people would leave him alone." |
| Quote: | | West compared getting to the Finals and not winning to being a child walking by the window of a candy store, seeing the candy and not being able to have any. He said that three times after Finals defeats he wanted to quit the game. |
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2016/story/_/id/15956952/jerry-west-defends-nba-finals-record-lebron-james |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
KobeFace
Sixth Man
Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 65
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jerry West...Why are you talking about Lebron James when you should be talking about what Brandon Ingram had for dinner  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25076
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
when you treated your hometown, the city of Cleveland with 'the decision'...
promised not 1, not 2...
then goes 2 out of 6 with your own hand picked super teams...
that's not negativity, that's a fair assessment |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Love Jerry. And I know the competitor in him understands what the frustration of being right there, but not accomplishing the only goal is like.
But I completely disagree with him on this one. LeBron set himself up for the negativity by coming in the league with the self proclaimed King and Chosen One designations. He bounced from Cleveland in rude and self aggrandizing fashion in order to make a super-team so he could get help from other players to actually win a title. Of course there is going to be negative reaction to that.
And there is no doubt that LeBron has not, despite all his talent and drive, really demonstrated a true killer, clutch instinct along the lines of a JW or a Kobe.
Le Bron has hand picked his help for many years now. He can't claim his King status while playing the whole, "I have no help" BS.
I'm kind of disappointed that the Logo is ignoring that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20266
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I guess if lebron was a humble person or even an arrogant person with a will to win and drive to win like Kobe than he would be more respected. Sorry logo I disagree with you. However lebron is still a great basketball player. Future HOF for sure |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roger O. Thornhill
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 12414
Location: Deep Space 9
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lebron's gotten a free pass from the media for his entire career up until this postseason, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for his underachieving ass?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lebron wasn't favored in any of the Finals? Come on now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KBtheGOAT
Sixth Man
Joined: 09 Jun 2016
Posts: 35
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No one is questioning how great of a basketball player Lebron is..It's the way he perceives himself. The self proclaimed "chosen one" and "king james" rubs ppl the wrong way.
Not only that, he acts as if tho every call made in the game should go his way. He doesn't work for calls like MJ and Kobe did, he doesn't dominate the way they did, and he doesn't have that killer instinct that they possessed. This is all backed up by the fact that he had to team up with 2 top 10-15 players at the time to win chips. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CabinCreek44
Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 3855
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think Jerry was speaking out of emotion, it's obviously a sensitive topic for him, and understandably so.
However, the glaring counterpoint to me in Jerry's blast to the media is that there is a huge difference between his performances in the Finals vs. LeBron's. Too many times in the Finals and other playoff series, LeBron had that deer in the headlights look. That never happened to Jerry. Yes, he was 1-8 in the Finals, but most of those losses came to a guy named Bill Russell (11 titles in 13 years).
Jerry's teams lost many times in the Finals, but Jerry was a monster in most of those series. Unlike LeBron, West didn't leave any bullets left in the gun. He was one of the most intense competitors the game has ever seen, and even his tormentors the Celtics commented after the 1969 Finals (when West was the MVP even though the Lakers lost) that they really wanted to see Jerry win a championship one day. The greatest winners in the history of the sport respected him, they knew how great he was, they experienced what a competitor he was.
Again, I understand Jerry defending LeBron. But imo there's absolutely no comparison between their performances in the Finals. LeBron doesn't burn for the game the same way guys like Russell, West, Jordan and Kobe did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Huey Lewis & The News
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 5234
Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | the negativity that surrounds him, honestly, to me, I think is so unjust and so unfair. |
When the Heat won he got all the credit. When his teams lose he's not supposed to shoulder the blame? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | the negativity that surrounds him, honestly, to me, I think is so unjust and so unfair. |
When the Heat won he got all the credit. When his teams lose he's not supposed to shoulder the blame? |
Exactly. He CHOSE to leave Miami and join this team. He handpicked nearly everyone on that team, as de facto GM.
He needs to own it ALL.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | Love Jerry. And I know the competitor in him understands what the frustration of being right there, but not accomplishing the only goal is like.
But I completely disagree with him on this one. LeBron set himself up for the negativity by coming in the league with the self proclaimed King and Chosen One designations. He bounced from Cleveland in rude and self aggrandizing fashion in order to make a super-team so he could get help from other players to actually win a title. Of course there is going to be negative reaction to that.
And there is no doubt that LeBron has not, despite all his talent and drive, really demonstrated a true killer, clutch instinct along the lines of a JW or a Kobe.
Le Bron has hand picked his help for many years now. He can't claim his King status while playing the whole, "I have no help" BS.
I'm kind of disappointed that the Logo is ignoring that. |
Agree.
_________________
Music is my medicine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | | the negativity that surrounds him, honestly, to me, I think is so unjust and so unfair. |
When the Heat won he got all the credit. When his teams lose he's not supposed to shoulder the blame? |
Exactly. He CHOSE to leave Miami and join this team. He handpicked nearly everyone on that team, as de facto GM.
He needs to own it ALL. |
Also agree.
_________________
Music is my medicine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rwongega
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 20510
Location: UCLA -> NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CabinCreek44 wrote: | | Jerry's teams lost many times in the Finals, but Jerry was a monster in most of those series. |
Funny -- Jerry is the only player who won a Finals MVP for a losing team -- and he admits that he played terribly in the one finals he did win and that Wilt and his teammates carried him through his bad play to a ring. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rwongega wrote: | | The Decision, King James even before he entered the NBA, LeBroning, crab dribble. Greg Oden's twin brought it upon himself. |
Yeah, I forgot about all the dancing Lebron on the Cavs used to do back in 08'-09'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KBtheGOAT wrote: | | No one is questioning how great of a basketball player Lebron is..It's the way he perceives himself. The self proclaimed "chosen one" and "king james" rubs ppl the wrong way. |
Lebron is a divisive player -- he's one of those guys who comes out high on polls of most loved athletes and high on polls of most hated athletes.
He's in an odd group with Kobe, Tiger Woods, and Tom Brady -- people respond to them very strongly, pro and con.
I find Lebron a really odd mix. He seems at the same time really ambitious, arrogant, but also friendly and down to earth in a way. He's a great athlete who has come up huge in big moments but also had some disasterous moments on the big stage.
So he provides plenty of material for both the people who love him and the people who hate him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | Love Jerry. And I know the competitor in him understands what the frustration of being right there, but not accomplishing the only goal is like.
But I completely disagree with him on this one. LeBron set himself up for the negativity by coming in the league with the self proclaimed King and Chosen One designations. He bounced from Cleveland in rude and self aggrandizing fashion in order to make a super-team so he could get help from other players to actually win a title. Of course there is going to be negative reaction to that.
And there is no doubt that LeBron has not, despite all his talent and drive, really demonstrated a true killer, clutch instinct along the lines of a JW or a Kobe.
Le Bron has hand picked his help for many years now. He can't claim his King status while playing the whole, "I have no help" BS.
I'm kind of disappointed that the Logo is ignoring that. |
I have mixed feelings. Not really sure how much it was Lebron that called himself the king or the media. I'm guessing some of each. The media have overplayed Lebrons PR.
As far as needing help to win a title, that is an old subject that is kind of silly. Every single great player that won a ring, ONLY got it after they got the help they needed. West got Goodrich back and Wilt. Russell had Cousy, Jones, Ramsy, Heinsohn, etc, Jabbar had Magic, Worthy, Wilkes, Scott, etc., Jordan had Pippen, Grant and Cartwright, Kobe had Shaq, Pau, Fox, Horry, etc.
Point it, no different than James having Wade and Bosch or Love and Irving.
I think Lebron wanted to go home and win one for his hometown. He did the best he could to pick a winning team to play with him. I don't see that as selfish or a problem. Shows how hard it is to actually win in this league.
That all being said, I think he blew it with his douche bag exit from Cleveland first time around, but that is not really my concern, I'm not a Cavalier or Lebron fanboy, if Cleveland fans can live with it, so be it.
I also think that Lebron has shown more instinct to put the game away than he did earlier in his career, but I can still see some reason to downgrade that part of his game when assessing his overall success. He has not been as clutch as Jordan, West, Magic, Jabbar or Kobe. But who has?
_________________
Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Roger O. Thornhill wrote: | | Lebron's gotten a free pass from the media for his entire career up until this postseason, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for his underachieving ass? |
I just get tired of the media defining players. Kobe was totally screwed by the media who never gave him much of a chance or much respect during his playing career.
It cracks me up because all those BS A-holes who ripped him his whole career, acted like they always knew he was the greatest on his retirement. They can all lick my sweaty balls!!
And so, I have some sympathy for Lebron, who does NOT control these media hacks anymore than Kobe did.
_________________
Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jerry has humility and humbleness. Prefers to stay out of the spotlight. minimal arrogance, if any. Genuine nice guy. Ultra competitive. Losses truly gutted him. Other than losing lots of finals, there aren't many similarities between Jerry and Lebron.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe, just maybe, despite all of Lebron's great stats, that he just isn't a winner. Maybe he's just a little better than Wilkens or T-Mac or AI. Maybe his style of play just doesn't translate into 5+ rings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakeshowtacular
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 703
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wino wrote: | | Roger O. Thornhill wrote: | | Lebron's gotten a free pass from the media for his entire career up until this postseason, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for his underachieving ass? |
I just get tired of the media defining players. Kobe was totally screwed by the media who never gave him much of a chance or much respect during his playing career.
It cracks me up because all those BS A-holes who ripped him his whole career, acted like they always knew he was the greatest on his retirement. They can all lick my sweaty balls!!
And so, I have some sympathy for Lebron, who does NOT control these media hacks anymore than Kobe did. |
I never thought I'd say this about the self-proclaimed "King" coming out of high school. Maybe it's because he came in during Kobes peak, and stole a little thunder. Kobe did the same to Jordan (a shade after MJ's peak) and people had a hard time embracing him. I have never seen anyone get destroyed in the media like KBB, but the hot and cold for LeBron is something I have never seen either. Look at 2 of Steph's last 3 games...if Kobe or LeBron play like that in the finals, they are selfish individual players, who can't co-exist with other top flight talent...when Steph or MJ play bad it's an injury or illness. I am not an eL-BJ fan, but I think in this case, the media is far harsher on him than they have been in the past. Deserved or not?!
_________________
Magic*Kobe*LBJ*AD*Cap |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakeshowtacular wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | Roger O. Thornhill wrote: | | Lebron's gotten a free pass from the media for his entire career up until this postseason, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for his underachieving ass? |
I just get tired of the media defining players. Kobe was totally screwed by the media who never gave him much of a chance or much respect during his playing career.
It cracks me up because all those BS A-holes who ripped him his whole career, acted like they always knew he was the greatest on his retirement. They can all lick my sweaty balls!!
And so, I have some sympathy for Lebron, who does NOT control these media hacks anymore than Kobe did. |
I never thought I'd say this about the self-proclaimed "King" coming out of high school. Maybe it's because he came in during Kobes peak, and stole a little thunder. Kobe did the same to Jordan (a shade after MJ's peak) and people had a hard time embracing him. I have never seen anyone get destroyed in the media like KBB, but the hot and cold for LeBron is something I have never seen either. Look at 2 of Steph's last 3 games...if Kobe or LeBron play like that in the finals, they are selfish individual players, who can't co-exist with other top flight talent...when Steph or MJ play bad it's an injury or illness. I am not an eL-BJ fan, but I think in this case, the media is far harsher on him than they have been in the past. Deserved or not?! |
I just think the media whores enjoy the fact that they can be the ones who help to define others careers. Or at least try. There is little doubt in my mind, that all the bad PR that Kobe got from the media influenced many to hate him for the wrong reasons.
I hated Bird because he was really good and always a threat, McHale even more, but I respected their skills and actually think Larry is a pretty solid dude. McHale is a bit of a douche but that is just because he is. I pretty much have learned to hate everyone from Boston but I respect them. The media seemed to just love hating Kobe and seeing how far their influence could extend. I think the NBA had the same agenda with Stern at the helm. It is a joke that Kobe only got 1 MVP and Curry already has 2, even Nash got 2. Neither of them are/were half the player Kobe was.
_________________
Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | Maybe, just maybe, despite all of Lebron's great stats, that he just isn't a winner. Maybe he's just a little better than Wilkens or T-Mac or AI. Maybe his style of play just doesn't translate into 5+ rings. |
Having Jordan instead on these Cavs teams wouldn't translate into many rings, either.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
