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Lakers_2000
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Yes we should pass French-style gun control so we can be like them and never suffer Islamic terrorism. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | CNN says the shooter might be an Afghani . . . watch the GOP and Trump go into full hate mode. My fear is that Trump's hate speech is going to incite reprisals against muslim communities. |
Being a Muslim or a middle eastern should merit no hate in this. The real problem is guns and the availability of guns and the type of guns that are available to the public. As long as guns remain legal in the us. Expect these kinds of mass killings every year or so |
How does his religion not become a factor though? His own father said he got angry after seeing two men kiss. He was on the FBI radar in the past because he may have exhibited indications of Islamic extremism which has significantly less tolerance for homosexual behavior than Christianity does.
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he gets no blame and the religion gets all, but I find it a little disturbing we're so willing to call out Christianity when someone doesn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding, but when someone with reported Islamic extremist religious beliefs (a religion that in its extreme form condones violence against gays) then kills 50 in a gay nightclub, we are so quick to pull out the "not the religion guys" "not the religion" "let's not blame the religion" card.
There is a problem with this religion (and others too), in terms of its lack of acceptance of others' lifestyles. It doesn't make you racist to admit that. It just makes you a realist. |
The right will blame radical Islamic terrorism
The left will blame lack of gun control
And they both be right! |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I knew our hit and run troll would show up. He must have been champing at the bit for the next shooting to come along so he could come back here and play his silly games.
DON"T FEED THE TROLL!
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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32
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | An AR-15 rifle was recovered from the Orlando shooter. The NRA says it’s useful for hunting and home defense. |
https://twitter.com/JamilSmith/status/742030638514118656
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | CNN says the shooter might be an Afghani . . . watch the GOP and Trump go into full hate mode. My fear is that Trump's hate speech is going to incite reprisals against muslim communities. |
Being a Muslim or a middle eastern should merit no hate in this. The real problem is guns and the availability of guns and the type of guns that are available to the public. As long as guns remain legal in the us. Expect these kinds of mass killings every year or so |
How does his religion not become a factor though? His own father said he got angry after seeing two men kiss. He was on the FBI radar in the past because he may have exhibited indications of Islamic extremism which has significantly less tolerance for homosexual behavior than Christianity does.
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he gets no blame and the religion gets all, but I find it a little disturbing we're so willing to call out Christianity when someone doesn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding, but when someone with reported Islamic extremist religious beliefs (a religion that in its extreme form condones violence against gays) then kills 50 in a gay nightclub, we are so quick to pull out the "not the religion guys" "not the religion" "let's not blame the religion" card.
There is a problem with this religion (and others too), in terms of its lack of acceptance of others' lifestyles. It doesn't make you racist to admit that. It just makes you a realist. |
The right will blame radical Islamic terrorism
The left will blame lack of gun control
And they both be right! |
Actually, every person on the left that I know and discuss such issues with acknowledges BOTH the factors of radicalized islamic terrorism AND the reasonable approach to gun control |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers_2000 wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Guns are bad. I wish Obama really had come for all the guns. I don't care if people think they need to hunt for sport, it's not worth it for this kind of carnage. It will never happen, but I wish all guns were completely illegal. |
I agree. |
Of course. A gay-hating Muslim terrorist just kills 50 gay people in a Gun Free Zone, so naturally let's call for more gun control on law-abiding citizens. |
 If guns were illegal and inaccessible for all Americans. He just would've stabbed and killed 50 people...right?!
Everybody in the club would've stood in a single file line. Maybe standing in pairs, back to back so the assailant could stab two people at a time using both hands. A quick 15-20 minutes later, and bam you got the same result.
Obviously guns are the bigger issue in this incident.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | CNN says the shooter might be an Afghani . . . watch the GOP and Trump go into full hate mode. My fear is that Trump's hate speech is going to incite reprisals against muslim communities. |
My dad fears this he even called me to warn me about this(which is how I found out about this go figure) however I never really have been mistaken for a Muslim. My dad though can easily be mistaken for an Arab (which I think where he was coming from)
This is rather sad but have to say not surprising that there are extremists in the Islam community that feel this way about gay people for all the Anti-Christian sentiment out there about treatment of the gay community. Muslims are far worse in comparison. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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From what I caught on TV, he had some weapons training previously because he was in security.
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32
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: |
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The President is scheduled to speak at 10:30am PT.
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Lakers_2000
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Guns are bad. I wish Obama really had come for all the guns. I don't care if people think they need to hunt for sport, it's not worth it for this kind of carnage. It will never happen, but I wish all guns were completely illegal. |
I agree. |
Of course. A gay-hating Muslim terrorist just kills 50 gay people in a Gun Free Zone, so naturally let's call for more gun control on law-abiding citizens. |
If guns were illegal and inaccessible for all Americans. He just would've stabbed and killed 50 people...right?!
Everybody in the club would've stood in a single file line. Maybe standing in pairs, back to back so the assailant could stab two people at a time using both hands. A quick 15-20 minutes later, and bam you got the same result.
Obviously guns are the bigger issue in this incident. |
Guns were not permitted in this establishment. Law-abiding citizens followed the law, the terrorist did not. I suppose we can pass French gun control and then we wouldn't have any Islamic terrorism. |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Guns are bad. I wish Obama really had come for all the guns. I don't care if people think they need to hunt for sport, it's not worth it for this kind of carnage. It will never happen, but I wish all guns were completely illegal. |
I agree. |
Of course. A gay-hating Muslim terrorist just kills 50 gay people in a Gun Free Zone, so naturally let's call for more gun control on law-abiding citizens. |
If guns were illegal and inaccessible for all Americans. He just would've stabbed and killed 50 people...right?!
Everybody in the club would've stood in a single file line. Maybe standing in pairs, back to back so the assailant could stab two people at a time using both hands. A quick 15-20 minutes later, and bam you got the same result.
Obviously guns are the bigger issue in this incident. |
The problem is that people keep identifying guns as the issue. Guns are simply a tool. Guns themselves are not inherently evil. If we expect to see any meaningful change in the proliferation of guns in society, we need to make it clear that the focus is on the EASE OF ACCESS to weapons and to seek reasonable restrictions on how they are distributed. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:07 am Post subject: |
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NBC news is reporting that, just before the shooting, the shooter called 911 and swore his allegiance to Al Baghdadi, the head of ISIS. Which doesn't mean that he has an actual connection to ISIS, he might be just their fan.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | NBC news is reporting that, just before the shooting, the shooter called 911 and swore his allegiance to Al Baghdadi, the head of ISIS. Which doesn't mean that he has an actual connection to ISIS, he might be just their fan. |
I suspect this is no different than the San Berdoo shooters - a guy who identified with ISIS, but has no actual meaningful ties to the group. Not that ultimately that makes any real difference in the result. |
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dvdrdiscs
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Guns are bad. I wish Obama really had come for all the guns. I don't care if people think they need to hunt for sport, it's not worth it for this kind of carnage. It will never happen, but I wish all guns were completely illegal. |
If a bunch of children dying didn't change our country's stance on gun, nothing will. I stopped clicking on links to mass shooting. It no longer shocks me or piques my curiosity. I think I'm desensitized. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | NBC news is reporting that, just before the shooting, the shooter called 911 and swore his allegiance to Al Baghdadi, the head of ISIS. Which doesn't mean that he has an actual connection to ISIS, he might be just their fan. |
Considering these guys spread their ideology over the internet one doesn't actually need to be in physical contact with them. Unfortunately, this won't be the first or last ISIS inspired attack. |
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dvdrdiscs
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:17 am Post subject: |
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To be fair, the NRA is correct. They said it's good for hunting, which doesn't necessarily mean just wildlife. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: |
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At least we can rest assured our country's foreign policy wins the hearts and minds of the people
Should a citizen in a country we destroyed with bombs and hate follow the puppet government we install.. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | CNN says the shooter might be an Afghani . . . watch the GOP and Trump go into full hate mode. My fear is that Trump's hate speech is going to incite reprisals against muslim communities. |
Being a Muslim or a middle eastern should merit no hate in this. The real problem is guns and the availability of guns and the type of guns that are available to the public. As long as guns remain legal in the us. Expect these kinds of mass killings every year or so |
How does his religion not become a factor though? His own father said he got angry after seeing two men kiss. He was on the FBI radar in the past because he may have exhibited indications of Islamic extremism which has significantly less tolerance for homosexual behavior than Christianity does.
I wouldn't go so far as to suggest he gets no blame and the religion gets all, but I find it a little disturbing we're so willing to call out Christianity when someone doesn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding, but when someone with reported Islamic extremist religious beliefs (a religion that in its extreme form condones violence against gays) then kills 50 in a gay nightclub, we are so quick to pull out the "not the religion guys" "not the religion" "let's not blame the religion" card.
There is a problem with this religion (and others too), in terms of its lack of acceptance of others' lifestyles. It doesn't make you racist to admit that. It just makes you a realist. |
The right will blame radical Islamic terrorism
The left will blame lack of gun control
And they both be right! |
Very much agree. And the right is going to avoid the issue of gun control, while the left will try to avoid talking about religion.
There are multiple factors at at play here. Culture is another. Cultural assimilation is a double edged sword that is so often discussed in my family because I'm mixed (asian/hispanic). But I think it plays a huge factor in terms of us/them ideologies. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: |
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The most recent HBO Real Sports episode has a segment on the AR-15 and its billing by the NRA and gun nuts as a "modern sporting rifle". They pretend it isn't a machine gun simply because it's one round per trigger pull, thus not a military weapon. However, it can be modified into a fully automatic machine gun with a certain kind of butt attachment that can replace the stock butt. Not that it matters, however. Semi-automatic doesn't stop it from doing its job, i.e. killing a whole lotta people. It's a deadly weapon billed now as a sporting rifle. Rifles used to be rifles not so long ago.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | The most recent HBO Real Sports episode has a segment on the AR-15 and its billing by the NRA and gun nuts as a "modern sporting rifle". They pretend it isn't a machine gun simply because it's one round per trigger pull, thus not a military weapon. However, it can be modified into a fully automatic machine gun with a certain kind of butt attachment that can replace the stock butt. Not that it matters, however. Semi-automatic doesn't stop it from doing its job, i.e. killing a whole lotta people. It's a deadly weapon billed now as a sporting rifle. Rifles used to be rifles not so long ago. |
While I definitely think gun control is an issue worth discussing, it's symptomatic and not the driving force. Where there's a will, there's a way and it's the will that's the problem IMO. After all, bombs are illegal, and aren't available at your local Big 5, but people make and use them all the time too. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | The most recent HBO Real Sports episode has a segment on the AR-15 and its billing by the NRA and gun nuts as a "modern sporting rifle". They pretend it isn't a machine gun simply because it's one round per trigger pull, thus not a military weapon. However, it can be modified into a fully automatic machine gun with a certain kind of butt attachment that can replace the stock butt. Not that it matters, however. Semi-automatic doesn't stop it from doing its job, i.e. killing a whole lotta people. It's a deadly weapon billed now as a sporting rifle. Rifles used to be rifles not so long ago. |
Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people with semi-automatic pistols that looked nothing like an AR-15. In fact they look like a handgun any police officer carry on patrol. The problem is assessing a weapon's capability on the "look" rather than what its capable of. |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | non-player zealot wrote: | | The most recent HBO Real Sports episode has a segment on the AR-15 and its billing by the NRA and gun nuts as a "modern sporting rifle". They pretend it isn't a machine gun simply because it's one round per trigger pull, thus not a military weapon. However, it can be modified into a fully automatic machine gun with a certain kind of butt attachment that can replace the stock butt. Not that it matters, however. Semi-automatic doesn't stop it from doing its job, i.e. killing a whole lotta people. It's a deadly weapon billed now as a sporting rifle. Rifles used to be rifles not so long ago. |
While I definitely think gun control is an issue worth discussing, it's symptomatic and not the driving force. Where there's a will, there's a way and it's the will that's the problem IMO. After all, bombs are illegal, and aren't available at your local Big 5, but people make and use them all the time too. |
This is just sad and you nailed the whole reason why I don't think gun control does anything to deter this violence. People with an intention for violence will find a way regardless.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| The ex-wife said he was angry, unstable and used to beat her. The father said he was anti-gay. He said he was Isis-inspired. He was a security guard with easy access to guns. Unfortunately, I think this was toxic-nexus where all played a part. |
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marga86
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Guns are bad. I wish Obama really had come for all the guns. I don't care if people think they need to hunt for sport, it's not worth it for this kind of carnage. It will never happen, but I wish all guns were completely illegal. |
I agree. |
Of course. A gay-hating Muslim terrorist just kills 50 gay people in a Gun Free Zone, so naturally let's call for more gun control on law-abiding citizens. |
If guns were illegal and inaccessible for all Americans. He just would've stabbed and killed 50 people...right?!
Everybody in the club would've stood in a single file line. Maybe standing in pairs, back to back so the assailant could stab two people at a time using both hands. A quick 15-20 minutes later, and bam you got the same result.
Obviously guns are the bigger issue in this incident. |
or he could of just bombed the place.
Why are people always so unreasonable with these types of things? I think it's pretty logical to think that if someone really wants to inflict harm, no law will stop him.
Drugs are illegal, and people still get their hands on em.. you think there isnt a black market for guns?
The issue is bigger than gun control in my opinion, but those that are for more gun control seem to act almost condescending towards those that dont feel the same way. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: |
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It's the "semi-automatic" nature of these weapons (whether pistol or rifle) that lets what would be an already awful case of murder turn into wiping out 50 people in minutes. Why can't we agree that without access to semi-automatic, he would not have been able to kill 50 people that quickly? Can't lawful gun owners still hunt and defend themselves with "regular" weapons?
Anyway, I know nothing will change. |
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