Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:35 am Post subject:
JUST-MING wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I'm sure LeBron would be fine in an era where he could really use his size and strength to his advantage. This is funny.
I'd love to see Lebron's reaction to Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, or Karl Malone getting physical with him. The typical hard fouls or altercations between plays would be 10 game suspensions today...
That was the era of the "enforcer." .
Lebron is bigger and stronger than all of them. He could snap Thompson in half like a twig. He could out physical all of them. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
yeah this is silly. He may flop to get calls but thats just the landscape of today's NBA. But he has plenty of bulk, strength, and toughness to not just hang with players from the 80s physically
as if legal hand checking meant they had ninja-like accuracy? to hand check didn't lead to more pushing and shoving?
does an illegal defense call really outweigh having everyone within contact range at all times?
it's as different as the whole "jump shooters don't get fouled due to SPACE" argument. but that might be the answer for your "number of fouls per game" argument earlier. Elimination of post bigs might affect that.
All I can say is that my memory of the '80s is a lot different from yours. A lot of players (and teams) just didn't play much defense, and the game wasn't particularly physical. This is what made the late '80s Pistons unique at the time.
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:35 pm Post subject:
If you guys have NBA TV and a pair of working eyes I implore you to watch 80s basketball and come back and tell me the game was more physical back then. I'd slap the hell out of you. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
as if legal hand checking meant they had ninja-like accuracy? to hand check didn't lead to more pushing and shoving?
does an illegal defense call really outweigh having everyone within contact range at all times?
it's as different as the whole "jump shooters don't get fouled due to SPACE" argument. but that might be the answer for your "number of fouls per game" argument earlier. Elimination of post bigs might affect that.
All I can say is that my memory of the '80s is a lot different from yours. A lot of players (and teams) just didn't play much defense, and the game wasn't particularly physical. This is what made the late '80s Pistons unique at the time.
The Bad Boys got so much attention because they were so different than everyone else. They were maybe the first team that defended the length of the court rather than backing up and waiting for the opponents. They pressured, and bump, and gave hip checks. But it's not like the whole league played for that, and the Big Boys reign was short, giving way to the Bulls after a few years.
There were some very violent moments in the league in the 70s (Kermit Washington) and some in the 80s, but the overall physicality of the era was overrated. Overall, I'd say the play was actually pretty soft.
I'm sure LeBron would be fine in an era where he could really use his size and strength to his advantage. This is funny.
I'd love to see Lebron's reaction to Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, or Karl Malone getting physical with him. The typical hard fouls or altercations between plays would be 10 game suspensions today...
That was the era of the "enforcer." .
Wasn't there a playoff series several years back where the Wizards were all trying to injure him all series?
If you guys have NBA TV and a pair of working eyes I implore you to watch 80s basketball and come back and tell me the game was more physical back then. I'd slap the hell out of you.
I'm sure there is a less offensive way to phrase it, but your point is valid.
Watch a game.
There is no comparison.
Sorry 80's.
as if legal hand checking meant they had ninja-like accuracy? to hand check didn't lead to more pushing and shoving?
does an illegal defense call really outweigh having everyone within contact range at all times?
it's as different as the whole "jump shooters don't get fouled due to SPACE" argument. but that might be the answer for your "number of fouls per game" argument earlier. Elimination of post bigs might affect that.
All I can say is that my memory of the '80s is a lot different from yours. A lot of players (and teams) just didn't play much defense, and the game wasn't particularly physical. This is what made the late '80s Pistons unique at the time.
The Bad Boys got so much attention because they were so different than everyone else. They were maybe the first team that defended the length of the court rather than backing up and waiting for the opponents. They pressured, and bump, and gave hip checks. But it's not like the whole league played for that, and the Big Boys reign was short, giving way to the Bulls after a few years.
There were some very violent moments in the league in the 70s (Kermit Washington) and some in the 80s, but the overall physicality of the era was overrated. Overall, I'd say the play was actually pretty soft.
I remember the difference with the Bad Boys outside of almost all of them being great and physical defenders with a good system; when they were physical they let you know it was on purpose. No actors. They would let you know nothing was accidental.
Back on point, let's not compare bron just to that list of guys. why? because they were just the pf's. There were REAL C's behind them (but i am being selective on roster years i guess)
Get past oakley or mason and meet ewing..
get past barkely and say hi to hakeem..
get past karl malone and hope mark eaton isn't rotating..
Mahorn/rodman/john salley all night long before you even see laimbeer..
Other teams without mention still had bigs to handle these guys also. Make a list of 6'10 and over guys on MJ's teams. Even shaq developed his hook shot/turnaround for a reason.
2 of the 4 examples aren't even champions. Lebron being an all-star back the day isn't a diss.
But compete with jordan? oh hell no. magic-lite more likely (worse shot/moves/passing). Really depends which team he ended up on. _________________ KOBE!!!
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Los Angeles (Western & Florence)
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:41 am Post subject:
I mean, it's not a fair question. I'm not a big Bron fan, but it's impossible to really say this.
Lebron wouldn't have been drafted straight from HS, given covers on SI in 11th grade back in the 80's. He wouldn't have been crowned "King James" before playing a game, and he woudn't have got a $100 Million Dollar Nike Deal, obviously since MJ just got his first deal back then. All these things are what contributed to Lebron's "softness" and entitlement. He would have grown up not being seen as untouchable, but he would have been a whole lot tougher mentally.
I mean, it's not a fair question. I'm not a big Bron fan, but it's impossible to really say this.
Lebron wouldn't have been drafted straight from HS, given covers on SI in 11th grade back in the 80's. He wouldn't have been crowned "King James" before playing a game, and he woudn't have got a $100 Million Dollar Nike Deal, obviously since MJ just got his first deal back then. All these things are what contributed to Lebron's "softness" and entitlement. He would have grown up not being seen as untouchable, but he would have been a whole lot tougher mentally.
I suppose that players are different in some respects today. I just can't get on board with the idea that Lebron is soft compared with players in the '80s. Is he soft compared to Larry Bird? Mark Aguirre? Dominique Wilkins? Dr. J? Those are some of the top SFs from the '80s. I just don't see it. But this is all subjective, so I'm cool with it if you see it that way.
I mean, it's not a fair question. I'm not a big Bron fan, but it's impossible to really say this.
Lebron wouldn't have been drafted straight from HS, given covers on SI in 11th grade back in the 80's. He wouldn't have been crowned "King James" before playing a game, and he woudn't have got a $100 Million Dollar Nike Deal, obviously since MJ just got his first deal back then. All these things are what contributed to Lebron's "softness" and entitlement. He would have grown up not being seen as untouchable, but he would have been a whole lot tougher mentally.
I suppose that players are different in some respects today. I just can't get on board with the idea that Lebron is soft compared with players in the '80s. Is he soft compared to Larry Bird? Mark Aguirre? Dominique Wilkins? Dr. J? Those are some of the top SFs from the '80s. I just don't see it. But this is all subjective, so I'm cool with it if you see it that way.
The crux of it is that people are mostly talking about mental softness rather than physical softness.
They take his whining to the media and leaving Cleveland to team up with Bosh and Wade as signs he would crumble against the players in the '80s, even though most of them were smaller than him and didn't play all that physical.
Personally, I don't get it. But, as you said, it's all subjective, and lots of people dislike Lebron and will assume his failure in any woulda-coulda-shoulda scenario.
For my part, I think the great players (Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem, and however far down on the list you want to go) would be great in any era, and they are talented and smart enough to easily adjust to the different ways the game was played and refereed in different eras.
I'm sure LeBron would be fine in an era where he could really use his size and strength to his advantage. This is funny.
I'd love to see Lebron's reaction to Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, or Karl Malone getting physical with him. The typical hard fouls or altercations between plays would be 10 game suspensions today...
That was the era of the "enforcer." .
Lebron is bigger and stronger than all of them. He could snap Thompson in half like a twig. He could out physical all of them.
The only thing Lebron would be snapping in that era are his knees. _________________ Music is my medicine
I'm sure LeBron would be fine in an era where he could really use his size and strength to his advantage. This is funny.
I'd love to see Lebron's reaction to Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, or Karl Malone getting physical with him. The typical hard fouls or altercations between plays would be 10 game suspensions today...
That was the era of the "enforcer." .
Lebron is bigger and stronger than all of them. He could snap Thompson in half like a twig. He could out physical all of them.
The only thing Lebron would be snapping in that era are his knees.
eh...lebron doesn't have superhuman strength like shaq or wilt. And he's not mean, nor does he appear like he could hold his own in a fight. If he picked a fight with daddy Thompson in his prime, that would be foolish. Thompson was a big, tough guy from he 80s. And Thompson may not be famous, but he was a top tier player. So all i get from a lot of these comments is that people don't have any idea about thompson, and lebron is some kind of superhero.
when lebron's toughness is criticized like this, it's not about muscles. lebron has good looking muscles. lebron has never been a tough guy in the nba. he's not even mean much, other than constantly shoving people off with his off arm. Like, Derek Fisher is more tough and mean than Lebron.
Thompson was a big, tough guy from he 80s. And Thompson may not be famous, but he was a top tier player. So all i get from a lot of these comments is that people don't have any idea about thompson, and lebron is some kind of superhero..
Mychal was a solid NBA player, but it would be a stretch to call him top tier, he wasn't that big, and he acted anything but tough
He was a #1 overall pick who really didn't pan out as expected -- he never made a single all-star game and averaged 14/7 for his career. I know that "top tier" is a vague term but it would be more accurate to call him a solid journeyman.
He was 6'10", 218 pounds. His game was based on athleticism rather than being a bruiser. Portland traded him for journeyman center Steve Johnson because they wanted someone bigger in the middle.
Thompson actually had a reputation of being very laid back and his coach Jack Ramsey thought he wasn't intense enough or serious enough on the court. Guard Otis Birdsong summed it up by saying: "Mychal is an exceptionally nice guy. Maybe too nice." (If you care you can read all this in the book Showtime).
I like Thompson but found it odd he criticized Lebron's toughness, considering no one really considered Thompson tough in his day.
Thompson was a big, tough guy from he 80s. And Thompson may not be famous, but he was a top tier player. So all i get from a lot of these comments is that people don't have any idea about thompson, and lebron is some kind of superhero..
Mychal was a solid NBA player, but it would be a stretch to call him top tier, he wasn't that big, and he acted anything but tough
He was a #1 overall pick who really didn't pan out as expected -- he never made a single all-star game and averaged 14/7 for his career. I know that "top tier" is a vague term but it would be more accurate to call him a solid journeyman.
He was 6'10", 218 pounds. His game was based on athleticism rather than being a bruiser. Portland traded him for journeyman center Steve Johnson because they wanted someone bigger in the middle.
Thompson actually had a reputation of being very laid back and his coach Jack Ramsey thought he wasn't intense enough or serious enough on the court. Guard Otis Birdsong summed it up by saying: "Mychal is an exceptionally nice guy. Maybe too nice." (If you care you can read all this in the book Showtime).
I like Thompson but found it odd he criticized Lebron's toughness, considering no one really considered Thompson tough in his day.
I think that you may not remember how pissed the league was that the lakers got Thompson. and you are also confusing "nice" as a person with nice as a basketball player on the court. and what i mean is a tough minded player, the kind of thing thompson is talking about in his criticism in the article.
Thompson was a big, tough guy from he 80s. And Thompson may not be famous, but he was a top tier player. So all i get from a lot of these comments is that people don't have any idea about thompson, and lebron is some kind of superhero..
Mychal was a solid NBA player, but it would be a stretch to call him top tier, he wasn't that big, and he acted anything but tough
He was a #1 overall pick who really didn't pan out as expected -- he never made a single all-star game and averaged 14/7 for his career. I know that "top tier" is a vague term but it would be more accurate to call him a solid journeyman.
He was 6'10", 218 pounds. His game was based on athleticism rather than being a bruiser. Portland traded him for journeyman center Steve Johnson because they wanted someone bigger in the middle.
Thompson actually had a reputation of being very laid back and his coach Jack Ramsey thought he wasn't intense enough or serious enough on the court. Guard Otis Birdsong summed it up by saying: "Mychal is an exceptionally nice guy. Maybe too nice." (If you care you can read all this in the book Showtime).
I like Thompson but found it odd he criticized Lebron's toughness, considering no one really considered Thompson tough in his day.
I think that you may not remember how pissed the league was that the lakers got Thompson. and you are also confusing "nice" as a person with nice as a basketball player on the court. and what i mean is a tough minded player, the kind of thing thompson is talking about in his criticism in the article.
Nah, Mychal wasn't anymore "tough minded" than your average NBA player. But he was a solid player, and a good backup on a couple of our ring teams. Personally, I think his comments are nothing more than (1) a typical old guy who thinks it was tougher/better in his day and (2) a dad standing up for his kid.
Last edited by activeverb on Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
I'm sure LeBron would be fine in an era where he could really use his size and strength to his advantage. This is funny.
I'd love to see Lebron's reaction to Maurice Lucas, Rick Mahorn, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, or Karl Malone getting physical with him. The typical hard fouls or altercations between plays would be 10 game suspensions today...
That was the era of the "enforcer." .
Lebron is bigger and stronger than all of them. He could snap Thompson in half like a twig. He could out physical all of them.
He's a beast. He's as revolutionary at his position as Shaq was at his. He would destroy in any era.
Lebron is bigger and stronger than all of them. He could snap Thompson in half like a twig. He could out physical all of them.
Myc pumped iron at Gold's. He would probably show up to Temecula.
nice clip. lol! he would show up to temecula fo sho!! lebron would possibly show up....but he would first send someone to scope the place out, then place some hidden snipers around, then make sure he outnumbers thompson 10-1...then he MAY show up, but would most likely send kyrie.
Lebron is bigger and stronger than all of them. He could snap Thompson in half like a twig. He could out physical all of them.
Myc pumped iron at Gold's. He would probably show up to Temecula.
nice clip. lol! he would show up to temecula fo sho!! lebron would possibly show up....but he would first send someone to scope the place out, then place some hidden snipers around, then make sure he outnumbers thompson 10-1...then he MAY show up, but would most likely send kyrie.
The clip was unintentionally funny in the context of this discussion.
It opens with a player driving into the lane untouched for an easy layup -- pretty much the opposite of the notion that the 80s was tough and physical.
Then we see Mychal in a tank top -- he's muscular compared to the average person, but he's not particularly built from an NBA standpoint. He's no Karl Malone or Lebron.
Then we see him working out, using pretty modest amounts of weights. I routinely see guys who aren't in notable shape at LA Fitness lifting more than Mychal was in this video.
And then he's doing the kind of bragging (I'm going to become the prime minister of the Bahamas) that people complain about with Lebron.
If Lebron was doing the same things that Mychal was in this video, Superboy would be tearing him a new one.
Last edited by activeverb on Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 1235 Location: Los Angeles (Western & Florence)
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
R-Tistic wrote:
I mean, it's not a fair question. I'm not a big Bron fan, but it's impossible to really say this.
Lebron wouldn't have been drafted straight from HS, given covers on SI in 11th grade back in the 80's. He wouldn't have been crowned "King James" before playing a game, and he woudn't have got a $100 Million Dollar Nike Deal, obviously since MJ just got his first deal back then. All these things are what contributed to Lebron's "softness" and entitlement. He would have grown up not being seen as untouchable, but he would have been a whole lot tougher mentally.
I suppose that players are different in some respects today. I just can't get on board with the idea that Lebron is soft compared with players in the '80s. Is he soft compared to Larry Bird? Mark Aguirre? Dominique Wilkins? Dr. J? Those are some of the top SFs from the '80s. I just don't see it. But this is all subjective, so I'm cool with it if you see it that way.
I put "softness" in quotes, mainly because it's referring to the mental side of things. Of coures, physically, he's nowhere near soft to me. But what people say is that he acts spoiled, entitled, and whiny, regardless of how powerful he is on the court.
I put "softness" in quotes, mainly because it's referring to the mental side of things. Of coures, physically, he's nowhere near soft to me. But what people say is that he acts spoiled, entitled, and whiny, regardless of how powerful he is on the court.
Fair enough. However, I'm not sure that you couldn't say the same thing about virtually every star player in the modern game. For that matter, I'm not sure that you wouldn't say the same thing about the stars from the '80s if the media had covered the game in the same way that it covers the game today.
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Did he really say that? Stay classy, Mr. Thompson.
