Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HoumanMD
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject: Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?

I don't know why this isn't even discussed, which is why I turn to my fellow LG'ers. The two things I recall, is 1) if the ball hits the backboard and then is blocked, it is a goaltend. 2) if hand and ball and glass all touch at the same time (i.e. pin against glass) then this too is a goaltend

So, given the fact that either #1 or #2 occurred (depending on how you look at it), then why was this not a goaltend?

Here is a link to the rule
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

here are pics of the block
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/20/nba-finals-game-7-lebron-james-block-andre-iguodala-highlights-video
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vanexelent
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject:

He pinned it. In slow motion it looks pinned longer than it did in real time, but I think it was a goal tend. But I think it was close enough not to call it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
P.K.
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29641

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:05 pm    Post subject:

it's goaltending if the defender hits the ball AFTER it has come off the backboard.
It's never goaltending if the defender makes contact with the ball (on a banked layup) before it hits the backboard.
Replays clearly show Lebron touching the ball when it was about 2" before it would have touched the backboard.

One of ESPN's shows had a replay of this with an ex-NBA ref looking at it in slo-mo. Clearly, crystal clear, it was not goaltending.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?

HoumanMD wrote:
I don't know why this isn't even discussed, which is why I turn to my fellow LG'ers. The two things I recall, is 1) if the ball hits the backboard and then is blocked, it is a goaltend. 2) if hand and ball and glass all touch at the same time (i.e. pin against glass) then this too is a goaltend

So, given the fact that either #1 or #2 occurred (depending on how you look at it), then why was this not a goaltend?

Here is a link to the rule
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

here are pics of the block
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/20/nba-finals-game-7-lebron-james-block-andre-iguodala-highlights-video


When I saw the first replay while watching the game I wondered if it was a pin. But even looking at it in slow motion frame by frame, I can't make a conclusive call on whether all three are in contact.

I wouldn't make the goaltending call looking at the play in real time. And even after looking at it in slow-motion, I don't think it's conclusive enough to merit a pin call. I file it under: too close to call. But I can certainly see how someone might feel differently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HoumanMD
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?

activeverb wrote:
HoumanMD wrote:
I don't know why this isn't even discussed, which is why I turn to my fellow LG'ers. The two things I recall, is 1) if the ball hits the backboard and then is blocked, it is a goaltend. 2) if hand and ball and glass all touch at the same time (i.e. pin against glass) then this too is a goaltend

So, given the fact that either #1 or #2 occurred (depending on how you look at it), then why was this not a goaltend?

Here is a link to the rule
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

here are pics of the block
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/06/20/nba-finals-game-7-lebron-james-block-andre-iguodala-highlights-video


When I saw the first replay while watching the game I wondered if it was a pin. But even looking at it in slow motion frame by frame, I can't make a conclusive call on whether all three are in contact.

I wouldn't make the goaltending call looking at the play in real time. And even after looking at it in slow-motion, I don't think it's conclusive enough to merit a pin call. I file it under: too close to call. But I can certainly see how someone might feel differently.


thanks, just surprised there aren't any articles on it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
P.K.
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29641

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Goaltending:
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.

e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.

f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
NOTE the use of the word simultaneously.

Rule F was enacted to prevent the case of a "tie" on rule D. ie the ball touches the backboard AND at the exact same instant the defender makes contact with it.

Rule F clause "A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball" is what applies to Lebrons block, since he made contact with the ball before it touched the backboard from Iggy shooting it.

It absolutely does not matter if Lebron temporarily had his hand against the ball against the backboard when he was swatting it as long as he touches the ball before it would have touched the backboard due to the motion from the shot attempt. The pinned ball rule was specifically designed to prevent an argument in case of a "tie"
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
xxsicrokerxx
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 2205

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject:

Seen it on replay. It's a good clean block.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dmitriy2000
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject:

Goaltending 100%. No question about it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vanexelent
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:03 am    Post subject:

He also has his hand on the rim while he's pinning the ball on the glass.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HoumanMD
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:59 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
He also has his hand on the rim while he's pinning the ball on the glass.


it was a great play. I am just surprised. People always mention Jordan pushing Russel for that great shot to win his 6th. But nobody is even mention that this good be a goal tend. Ball was pinned. Hardest call in basketball (along with charge/block). Just surprised.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:04 am    Post subject:

In hindsight Iggy should have reversed to the other side of the rim to protect against Lebron...but perhaps he had no idea Lebron was about to pounce him?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21415

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:38 am    Post subject:

So it IS called a basketball "ring"! Ted Cruz was accurate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeDunk
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject:

not goaltending, was a spectacular block!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeDunk
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject:

oh that whole sequence was Curry's fault... he should have gone in himself since he had view of Lebron coming in from behind Iggy.... pass fake and go in for the layup. I guess Nash hasn't taught him to scan the floor for oncoming defenders yet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
halosage
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 701
Location: Hollywood, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject:

xxsicrokerxx wrote:
Seen it on replay. It's a good clean block.

_________________
"Changes aren't permanent, but change is." - Rush, Tom Sawyer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pio2u
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54519

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:17 am    Post subject:

Pinned the tail on the donkey!!!

AN ALL-TIME GREAT NBA PLAYOFF BLOCK!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeRe-Loaded
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 14944

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:42 pm    Post subject:

LOL ... come on man!

That was a SICK BLOCK!
_________________
#11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sex Symbol
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 21 Jun 2016
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject:

Goaltending and a foul but of course the cavs refs dont call it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pio2u
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54519

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Sex Symbol wrote:
Goaltending and a foul but of course the cavs refs dont call it


SURE



Last edited by pio2u on Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Sex Symbol
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 21 Jun 2016
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject:

He grabbed the net and he also hit iggy in the shoulder, also that block by green when lebron pretended to be hurt was just another flop. So sick of this rigged league!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pio2u
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54519

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject:

Sex Symbol wrote:
He grabbed the net and he also hit iggy in the shoulder, also that block by green when lebron pretended to be hurt was just another flop. So sick of this rigged league!



WNBA is a good alternative.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
moonriver24
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Sex Symbol wrote:
Goaltending and a foul but of course the cavs refs dont call it


SURE


Clean block. From one who is busy with Lebron is greater than kobe jockers.
Question is what if iggy who did the blocking?
_________________
Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Wino
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:14 pm    Post subject:

xxsicrokerxx wrote:
Seen it on replay. It's a good clean block.


It's been shown with better camera angles than your link had, in slow motion. The block was before the ball hit the backboard. There is NO frigging OTHER rule.
_________________
Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CabinCreek44
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 3855

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:53 am    Post subject:

It was a superb display of desire and athleticism by LeBron to get to that ball. While I was watching the game I thought it was a great block and didn't think anything more about it.

But in looking at the replay, LeBron pinned the ball on the glass, which is a goaltend. It doesn't surprise me that the refs didn't call it, not because it was LeBron, but because (a) it was a bang-bang play, and (b) today's NBA referees are absolutely horrible, their incompetence coupled with their arrogance is by far the biggest problem in the game today.

All that said, LeBron was incredible in the last 3 games of the series, and he really took a step up from where he's been previously, in my humble opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BadGuy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3616

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Goaltending:
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.

e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.

f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
NOTE the use of the word simultaneously.

Rule F was enacted to prevent the case of a "tie" on rule D. ie the ball touches the backboard AND at the exact same instant the defender makes contact with it.

Rule F clause "A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball" is what applies to Lebrons block, since he made contact with the ball before it touched the backboard from Iggy shooting it.

It absolutely does not matter if Lebron temporarily had his hand against the ball against the backboard when he was swatting it as long as he touches the ball before it would have touched the backboard due to the motion from the shot attempt. The pinned ball rule was specifically designed to prevent an argument in case of a "tie"


Perfect explanation. As a Lebron hater myself, I had to give him props for this block. Going by the rules you cited above, there is no room for interpretation of the play as a goaltend outside of the realm of fiction.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB