Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?
I don't know why this isn't even discussed, which is why I turn to my fellow LG'ers. The two things I recall, is 1) if the ball hits the backboard and then is blocked, it is a goaltend. 2) if hand and ball and glass all touch at the same time (i.e. pin against glass) then this too is a goaltend
So, given the fact that either #1 or #2 occurred (depending on how you look at it), then why was this not a goaltend?
He pinned it. In slow motion it looks pinned longer than it did in real time, but I think it was a goal tend. But I think it was close enough not to call it.
it's goaltending if the defender hits the ball AFTER it has come off the backboard.
It's never goaltending if the defender makes contact with the ball (on a banked layup) before it hits the backboard.
Replays clearly show Lebron touching the ball when it was about 2" before it would have touched the backboard.
One of ESPN's shows had a replay of this with an ex-NBA ref looking at it in slo-mo. Clearly, crystal clear, it was not goaltending. _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?
HoumanMD wrote:
I don't know why this isn't even discussed, which is why I turn to my fellow LG'ers. The two things I recall, is 1) if the ball hits the backboard and then is blocked, it is a goaltend. 2) if hand and ball and glass all touch at the same time (i.e. pin against glass) then this too is a goaltend
So, given the fact that either #1 or #2 occurred (depending on how you look at it), then why was this not a goaltend?
When I saw the first replay while watching the game I wondered if it was a pin. But even looking at it in slow motion frame by frame, I can't make a conclusive call on whether all three are in contact.
I wouldn't make the goaltending call looking at the play in real time. And even after looking at it in slow-motion, I don't think it's conclusive enough to merit a pin call. I file it under: too close to call. But I can certainly see how someone might feel differently.
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Lebron Block on Iggi... goaltending?
activeverb wrote:
HoumanMD wrote:
I don't know why this isn't even discussed, which is why I turn to my fellow LG'ers. The two things I recall, is 1) if the ball hits the backboard and then is blocked, it is a goaltend. 2) if hand and ball and glass all touch at the same time (i.e. pin against glass) then this too is a goaltend
So, given the fact that either #1 or #2 occurred (depending on how you look at it), then why was this not a goaltend?
When I saw the first replay while watching the game I wondered if it was a pin. But even looking at it in slow motion frame by frame, I can't make a conclusive call on whether all three are in contact.
I wouldn't make the goaltending call looking at the play in real time. And even after looking at it in slow-motion, I don't think it's conclusive enough to merit a pin call. I file it under: too close to call. But I can certainly see how someone might feel differently.
thanks, just surprised there aren't any articles on it
Goaltending:
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
NOTE the use of the word simultaneously.
Rule F was enacted to prevent the case of a "tie" on rule D. ie the ball touches the backboard AND at the exact same instant the defender makes contact with it.
Rule F clause "A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball" is what applies to Lebrons block, since he made contact with the ball before it touched the backboard from Iggy shooting it.
It absolutely does not matter if Lebron temporarily had his hand against the ball against the backboard when he was swatting it as long as he touches the ball before it would have touched the backboard due to the motion from the shot attempt. The pinned ball rule was specifically designed to prevent an argument in case of a "tie" _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
He also has his hand on the rim while he's pinning the ball on the glass.
it was a great play. I am just surprised. People always mention Jordan pushing Russel for that great shot to win his 6th. But nobody is even mention that this good be a goal tend. Ball was pinned. Hardest call in basketball (along with charge/block). Just surprised.
In hindsight Iggy should have reversed to the other side of the rim to protect against Lebron...but perhaps he had no idea Lebron was about to pounce him? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
oh that whole sequence was Curry's fault... he should have gone in himself since he had view of Lebron coming in from behind Iggy.... pass fake and go in for the layup. I guess Nash hasn't taught him to scan the floor for oncoming defenders yet
He grabbed the net and he also hit iggy in the shoulder, also that block by green when lebron pretended to be hurt was just another flop. So sick of this rigged league!
He grabbed the net and he also hit iggy in the shoulder, also that block by green when lebron pretended to be hurt was just another flop. So sick of this rigged league!
Goaltending and a foul but of course the cavs refs dont call it
SURE
Clean block. From one who is busy with Lebron is greater than kobe jockers.
Question is what if iggy who did the blocking? _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:14 pm Post subject:
xxsicrokerxx wrote:
Seen it on replay. It's a good clean block.
It's been shown with better camera angles than your link had, in slow motion. The block was before the ball hit the backboard. There is NO frigging OTHER rule. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
It was a superb display of desire and athleticism by LeBron to get to that ball. While I was watching the game I thought it was a great block and didn't think anything more about it.
But in looking at the replay, LeBron pinned the ball on the glass, which is a goaltend. It doesn't surprise me that the refs didn't call it, not because it was LeBron, but because (a) it was a bang-bang play, and (b) today's NBA referees are absolutely horrible, their incompetence coupled with their arrogance is by far the biggest problem in the game today.
All that said, LeBron was incredible in the last 3 games of the series, and he really took a step up from where he's been previously, in my humble opinion.
Goaltending:
d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.
e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.
f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)
NOTE the use of the word simultaneously.
Rule F was enacted to prevent the case of a "tie" on rule D. ie the ball touches the backboard AND at the exact same instant the defender makes contact with it.
Rule F clause "A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball" is what applies to Lebrons block, since he made contact with the ball before it touched the backboard from Iggy shooting it.
It absolutely does not matter if Lebron temporarily had his hand against the ball against the backboard when he was swatting it as long as he touches the ball before it would have touched the backboard due to the motion from the shot attempt. The pinned ball rule was specifically designed to prevent an argument in case of a "tie"
Perfect explanation. As a Lebron hater myself, I had to give him props for this block. Going by the rules you cited above, there is no room for interpretation of the play as a goaltend outside of the realm of fiction.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum