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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13704
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Kyrie Irving - How Will He Be Remembered |
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Kyrie Irving avg 20/3/5/1 on 45% and 32% in the regular season, 25/3/5/2 on 48% and 44% in the playoffs (1 less PPG than LeBron) and 27/4/4 on 47% and 41% in the Finals (2 less PPG than LeBron, while making the series winning shot).
How will he be remembered for this season and playoff run? |
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KobeDunk Retired Number
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 26849
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: |
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he was the key, Lebron was the MVP but Kyrie was simply spectacular. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13704
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I mean, if the likes of Dumars and Reggie Miller are in the HOF then Kyrie only needs around 5 more years of play at the level he's been playing at to make it in? |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what you mean. He was a key component of a championship team. He had some big games and made some big plays. How this fits into the narrative of his career will depend on the rest of his career, obviously. If you mean how he fits into the narrative of this particular season, that narrative is dominated by Lebron and Cleveland. No one has forgotten Irving, but he's not the story. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Oh, you mean will the halo effect of this title affect his HoF chances? Sure. As to whether he will end up in the HoF, its way to early to say. As you say, players at his level have made it. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: |
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I doubt his health will allow him to play enough games. |
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the association Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015 Posts: 1982
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:36 am Post subject: |
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I think it's far too early to settle on Kyrie's legacy (although I'm assuming the OP's point was probably more of a "How will he be remembered when reflecting back on the 2016 NBA Finals?"), but unmentioned upstream is the fact that he essentially outplayed the reigning unanimous R/S MVP on the biggest stage. And there's mention of his work on the offensive side of the court, but none of the defensive side. Of course, the defensive game plans directed at Steph involved much more than simply having Kyrie defend him on an island throughout the series, but it's difficult for casual observers (who outnumber avid fans by a great margin) to conclude anything but this: Kyrie Irving outplayed Steph Curry in the NBA Finals, he defended him successfully to the point that Steph was visibly rattled on the court over and over again, and now Steph has consecutive appearances on the biggest stage where he hasn't been among the top two performers on the court.
As for Kyrie, it's really nice to see him overcome the knee injury last season. He's not just proving to be a better #1 pick at the point guard position than Jay Williams ever was (and possibly Derrick Rose, too), but he's also far brighter and far easier to like. I didn't think he was in the Top 5 point guards in basketball this year, but the 2016 playoffs have me reconsidering ... he brought it this year, and culminating the season with a ring may be the great springboard he's always needed. We'll have to wait-and-see ...
Edit: Jay Williams was #2 overall in the meager 2002 draft (not #1) ...
Last edited by the association on Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13704
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Oh, you mean will the halo effect of this title affect his HoF chances? Sure. As to whether he will end up in the HoF, its way to early to say. As you say, players at his level have made it. |
Yes. Sometimes winning a title or stepping up huge in a playoff series can elevate you. |
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richsmith Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 1177
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I really think the last five games of the Finals were his collective coming-out moment. His confidence is going to be through the roof next season, he seems to have quickly learned how to play smarter, and as LeBron gets a little older and grateful to share the burden, they have the potential to become a 1A/1B combo like Shaq and Kobe turned into. IF -- and it's a huge if -- he can stay healthy, the sky is the limit for him. |
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OX1947 Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2001 Posts: 14951 Location: Winchester, CA.
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Basketball Hall of Fame is the easiest Hall of Fame to get into. So, yes. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Oh, you mean will the halo effect of this title affect his HoF chances? Sure. As to whether he will end up in the HoF, its way to early to say. As you say, players at his level have made it. |
Yes. Sometimes winning a title or stepping up huge in a playoff series can elevate you. |
Absolutely. Of course, that's not the only factor. Otherwise, Cedric Maxwell would be in the Hall. But yeah, it's a great item on Irving's resume. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13704
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Oh, you mean will the halo effect of this title affect his HoF chances? Sure. As to whether he will end up in the HoF, its way to early to say. As you say, players at his level have made it. |
Yes. Sometimes winning a title or stepping up huge in a playoff series can elevate you. |
Absolutely. Of course, that's not the only factor. Otherwise, Cedric Maxwell would be in the Hall. But yeah, it's a great item on Irving's resume. |
Well, Maxwell wasn't a 20/3/6 player, 3-time all star, ROY and All-NBA selection 5 years into his career. So if he just keeps doing exactly what he's been doing so far for another 5 years or so, I think he's in there.
I guess the question is does one ring get you in if you have the type of numbers he's had (for a longer period of time obviously). |
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Dladi Vidac Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 4330 Location: Meeting the man who met Andy Griffith.
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Did he die?
_________________ "The best there is. The best there was. The best there ever will be.", said Bret Hart regarding the Los Angeles Lakers. |
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frijolero01 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 13324
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Dagger, game 7, on the road. _________________ Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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mirak Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5238
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Dladi Vidac wrote: | Did he die?
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TheGOATWears#24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 2634 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: |
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he will be remembered as Uncle Drew. _________________ "Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22228 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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If not for Kyrie, LeBron wouldn't won this title. He was instrumental. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Kyrie Irving - How Will He Be Remembered |
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Dreamshake wrote: | Kyrie Irving avg 20/3/5/1 on 45% and 32% in the regular season, 25/3/5/2 on 48% and 44% in the playoffs (1 less PPG than LeBron) and 27/4/4 on 47% and 41% in the Finals (2 less PPG than LeBron, while making the series winning shot).
How will he be remembered for this season and playoff run? |
Irving has played 5 years, averaged 20.8 ppg, made three all-star teams, and an all-NBA team. He's on a solid Hall of Fame track and the ring only helps.
People might remember moments from the playoff -- his big 3-point shot in game 70, his and Lebron's 40-40 game. But I'm not sold that his overall performance will stick in people's collective memories. Plenty of second bananas have had great finals that fade from memory.
If his future career expands on this series, the tapestry might be remembered. If it doesn't, it might be forgotten. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Absolutely. Of course, that's not the only factor. Otherwise, Cedric Maxwell would be in the Hall. But yeah, it's a great item on Irving's resume. |
Well, Maxwell wasn't a 20/3/6 player, 3-time all star, ROY and All-NBA selection 5 years into his career. So if he just keeps doing exactly what he's been doing so far for another 5 years or so, I think he's in there.
I guess the question is does one ring get you in if you have the type of numbers he's had (for a longer period of time obviously). |
That was my point about Maxwell.
Anyway, I don't disagree with you, but assuming a five year continuation is risky. Penny Hardaway was much better in his first five years. He was first team all-NBA and third in the MVP voting. We know how that turned out.
Derrick Rose is going to be the interesting case. No MVP has ever failed to make the Hall of Fame. Will Rose be the first? |
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Luke Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2003 Posts: 5004 Location: Deep Europe
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Since they are all busy hyping James, Irving will be a forgotten man soon.
He really was the guy who made the difference, instead, when the pivotal games were on the line.
Game 5 and game 7, he scored the most important points of the series.
Also, if you discount points scored in garbage time, he is probably the best scorer of the Finals... |
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Plaza234 Star Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2014 Posts: 1626
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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He's the DWade sidekick now for Lebron. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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He was great, but I think he'll have the same legacy as Pippen. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Luke wrote: |
Game 5 and game 7, he scored the most important points of the series.
Also, if you discount points scored in garbage time, he is probably the best scorer of the Finals... |
I'd have to see the actual numbers before I bought that. Irving had the big three pointer, but Lebron scored 12 of the Cavs 18 points in the 4th quarter of game 7.
My gut is from a scoring standpoint, Irving and Lebron were pretty equal, but Lebron played a bigger role in terms of rebounding, passing and defense. He pretty much dominated on both sides of the court, but Irving played great.
Considering that none of the Warriors stood out individually, I was wondering if Lebron would get MVP even if GS won the series. |
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ExPatLkrFan Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 3981 Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Like Jamaal Wilkes in the Lakers 76ers series. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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This post is about 7-9 years too early. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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