Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:10 am Post subject:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
TheGOATWears#24 wrote:
Kobe in his prime was definitely a lockdown defender, and as another posted mentioned, he lived off his reputation and gambled defensively in his latter years. Then again, who else do you know who is the #1 offensive option on their team who can drop 30ppg on any given night AND completely shut down the #1 player on the opposing team?
Kobe, MJ, Lebron, TD, Hakeem even KG at some point.
Lebron?? Sorry but i have never seen Lebron play good man defense, let alone lock anybody up. He is great at passing lanes and chase down blocks. His man defense is subpar to say the least.
This thread should serve as an example of why you don't want to spend one second of your day on this board debating with Lebron's fans. _________________ “There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee
Kobe in his prime was definitely a lockdown defender, and as another posted mentioned, he lived off his reputation and gambled defensively in his latter years. Then again, who else do you know who is the #1 offensive option on their team who can drop 30ppg on any given night AND completely shut down the #1 player on the opposing team?
Kobe, MJ, Lebron, TD, Hakeem even KG at some point.
Lebron?? Sorry but i have never seen Lebron play good man defense, let alone lock anybody up. He is great at passing lanes and chase down blocks. His man defense is subpar to say the least.
How many of LeBron's games have you watched over the last 13 seasons?
LeBron's success in man defense situations over the years vs. Derrick Rose, by way of one high-profile example, is understood by even the most casual viewers. Destroying - yes, destroying - the reigning MVP in the playoffs while "giving up" five inches and 50 pounds isn't considered to be "subpar" man defense by most observers. Specifically, I believe Rose was 1/15 with three TOs and one assist when guarded by LeBron in the pivotal games of the 2011 playoffs.
And of course, LeBron's head-to-head success vs. anyone else who might have challenged him as the NBA (and world's) best player over the past 7 - 8 years also provides at least some insight into his overall defensive abilities. Regardless, the synergy sports data points in the link below appear to undermine your view in this matter anyway.
I always thought Phil preferred that Kobe rest on that side so he wouldn't be worn out on offense. Typically, Kobe had no respect for the opposing team SG and played off of him.
Certain matchups intrigued him and Phil usually let him have those but overall, he wasn't relied on to do much on that side of the court. Managing his workload is what helped him play 20 seasons.
You been watching way too much 2014-2016 Kobe. The only players Kobe didn't "respect" we're the ones that couldn't shoot - and guess what, that strategy almost worked every time. Kobe is probably a top 3 defender at the SG position ever. Hands down. No other comment needs to be said about that.
I agree certain matchups intrigued him, which is what made Kobe the perfect blend of entertainer and substance player. He made a statement when he really wanted to.
No, I leave 2014-2016 out of any discussion about his performance or ability. Phil critiqued his defense several times over the years. When he was focused, there was no questioning his ability on that side of the floor. He would get up for the big games and the big players but he took a bunch of games off. No one blamed him for it. The voters and media never held it against him.
While Phil allowed him to coast and keep the mileage down, Mike Brown and Mike D'Antoni wanted more from him. D'Antoni had that stretch where he assigned him to the other team's point guard to get him to engage and Kobe excelled but he was too old to be going all out on both ends like it was 2001 again. If Kobe was able to focus on 3 and D like the other great defenders, he would have been a great defender by every statistical measure.
We already saw this at the Olympics. His defense, especially during his first Olympics, blew everyone away.
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Kobe Wasn't A Good Defender - According to a Lebron Fan
pmacla wrote:
Gatekeeper wrote:
I'm chatting on another board and there's this idiot who thinks Kobe wasn't a great defender compared with the likes of Lebron, Paul, Bowen, Kidd, Allen or Artest. I thought he was just joking or trolling at worst but he seems to insist that to be the case. My argument: 9 time All-Defensive 1st Team plus the best perimeter defender since MJ. Help me help this poor soul see the light...
He was a better defender than MJ, Kobe guarded the top wing on opposing teams and took them out the game, MJ had Scottie to do that for him, and LeBron is more of a Free Saftey on defense
I didn't study film enough comparing MJ and Kobe defending. But Steve Kerr mentioned at some point that they had to change plays or out of bounds plays because of MJs strong defense.
if i need someone shut down or contained for an entire game, give me kobe
if i need someone to block a critical layup in transition, give me lebron
i might still take kobe on the latter. lebron is good at the chase down help block, which of course, is the easier kind of block than other kinds. kobe was a much better overall blocker than lebron. kobe's blocked a lot of great players in impressive fashion, including lebron, and not just with chase down blocks.
that's the one i always remember.
i forgot the year, but there was a stretch in the pre-pau days where kobe was just blocking all the centers all over the place. yao multiple times, duncan, etc.
I always thought Phil preferred that Kobe rest on that side so he wouldn't be worn out on offense. Typically, Kobe had no respect for the opposing team SG and played off of him.
Certain matchups intrigued him and Phil usually let him have those but overall, he wasn't relied on to do much on that side of the court. Managing his workload is what helped him play 20 seasons.
You been watching way too much 2014-2016 Kobe. The only players Kobe didn't "respect" we're the ones that couldn't shoot - and guess what, that strategy almost worked every time. Kobe is probably a top 3 defender at the SG position ever. Hands down. No other comment needs to be said about that.
I agree certain matchups intrigued him, which is what made Kobe the perfect blend of entertainer and substance player. He made a statement when he really wanted to.
No, I leave 2014-2016 out of any discussion about his performance or ability. Phil critiqued his defense several times over the years. When he was focused, there was no questioning his ability on that side of the floor. He would get up for the big games and the big players but he took a bunch of games off. No one blamed him for it. The voters and media never held it against him.
While Phil allowed him to coast and keep the mileage down, Mike Brown and Mike D'Antoni wanted more from him. D'Antoni had that stretch where he assigned him to the other team's point guard to get him to engage and Kobe excelled but he was too old to be going all out on both ends like it was 2001 again. If Kobe was able to focus on 3 and D like the other great defenders, he would have been a great defender by every statistical measure.
We already saw this at the Olympics. His defense, especially during his first Olympics, blew everyone away.
Thats what I was getting at. I've seen the debates about Kobe's defense and its always a discussion of his peaks on one side, guarding Iverson and McGrady, the olympics, and the early years with Shaq. On the other side it's his defensive stats that were only good very early in his career, his taking plays off, and having someone like Artest to guard the other teams best player.
His DPOY votes and first team selections show that people preferred to judge him on his ability. His defensive stats were below average for much of his career but that is only because of the way he was used.
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Kobe Wasn't A Good Defender - According to a Lebron Fan
Boldarblood wrote:
most of the lebron fans are to young to remember Kobes greatness .
Speak for yourself my brother... I know some old idiots...
Lebron has without a doubt the most ignorant fanbase of any player in sports history.
Think about it... He's calls them witnesses... They call him king. It's a freaking cult man. I am dead serious. I live in Ohio and I have to deal with this crap all the time. _________________ “There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
if i need someone shut down or contained for an entire game, give me kobe
if i need someone to block a critical layup in transition, give me lebron
i might still take kobe on the latter. lebron is good at the chase down help block, which of course, is the easier kind of block than other kinds. kobe was a much better overall blocker than lebron. kobe's blocked a lot of great players in impressive fashion, including lebron, and not just with chase down blocks.
that's the one i always remember.
i forgot the year, but there was a stretch in the pre-pau days where kobe was just blocking all the centers all over the place. yao multiple times, duncan, etc.
Kobe never came close to blocking 2.5 per game in the playoffs. Kobe was the better defender in his prime, but no where close to Lebron's blocking ability. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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