Bulls want a big for duhon
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Sage_10
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject:

Pass.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
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Kwame for Duhon? No way would Chitown take that trade

Really?

Well they need someone at C next to Tyson.

Tyson-Kwame combo could match the Tyson-Curry combo they had last season in terms of size and athleticism.

While Brown brings very little offensively - Skiles is a big defense guy. He would know how to use Kwame's size at C.

And why Kwame looks a lot weaker defensively to us, is that he doesn't have a great shotblocker next to him. If the Lakers actually got smarter on the X's and O's - they would never play Kwame and Cook together. Kwame + Mihm, Kwame + Bynum and even Kwame + Odom is acceptable.

Tyson is a very good shotblocker. I think they would be a hell of a force defensively. Most important - they each bring what the other lacks. Kwame - shotblocking, consistent rebounding, Tyson - Size at C



I'd do the deal in a minute, but I doubt Chitown would take Kwame. Kwame's a capable man defender, but his team defense has been abysmal, I'm not hopeful that Chicago be motivated to take him for the next couple of years. For an expiring contract like Thomas, they'd take him and give you a sweetener. But for Duhon? No... too one-sided.
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RG73
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject:

The Lakers will not trade Kwame for Duhon.

Here's why:

All we'd have left from the Shaq trade then would be Odom and Duhon. And Duhon, as has been pointed out, could have and should have been drafted before Sasha.

It'd be kind of ridiculous to essentially trade Shaq for Odom and to get a back up point guard we could have drafted.

On the court it makes sense--we need anyone with any semblence of defense at the one. Phil's close to writing off Kwame now, and if we have to take Thomas back for 40 games, what's another one-way matador? At least he can score. But politically, if Mitch made that trade, he might as well hand in the resignation papers immediately afterwards and haul ass out of town.
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pawn
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject:

Shaq trade is ancient history - we need to just worry about improving our team. I'd do kwame for Duhon + filler in a heartbeat. Kwame is 8+ million worth of imbecile on this team. Flee scrub, flee.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject:

Kwame for Duhon and a filler...that gives Cookie a starting spot and Bynum/Ronny PT, where do I sign?
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RG73
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject:

pawn wrote:
Shaq trade is ancient history - we need to just worry about improving our team. I'd do kwame for Duhon + filler in a heartbeat. Kwame is 8+ million worth of imbecile on this team. Flee scrub, flee.


It isn't ancient history and politically it would mean Mitch's job. Again, note, he'd have traded Shaq and all he'd have to show for it was Odom, Grant (who we're paying to play for Phoenix), and Duhon (again, who Mitch passed on drafting). Then he traded a fan favorite in Caron, a hardworking kid, for Kwame, a career underachiever, and then moving that underachiever for a guard that he should have drafted over the less than spectacular Sasha.

Of course that move helps us. But I'm explaining why Mitch will never do it. It would make it plain as day what a terrible GM he really is.
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
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Kwame for Duhon? No way would Chitown take that trade

Really?

Well they need someone at C next to Tyson.

Tyson-Kwame combo could match the Tyson-Curry combo they had last season in terms of size and athleticism.

While Brown brings very little offensively - Skiles is a big defense guy. He would know how to use Kwame's size at C.

And why Kwame looks a lot weaker defensively to us, is that he doesn't have a great shotblocker next to him. If the Lakers actually got smarter on the X's and O's - they would never play Kwame and Cook together. Kwame + Mihm, Kwame + Bynum and even Kwame + Odom is acceptable.

Tyson is a very good shotblocker. I think they would be a hell of a force defensively. Most important - they each bring what the other lacks. Kwame - shotblocking, consistent rebounding, Tyson - Size at C


Since WHEN??????


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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject:

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Then he traded a fan favorite in Caron, a hardworking kid, for Kwame, a career underachiever

Funny enough, you were one of the biggest backers of that trade.

You ridiculed me for being against the trade and were completely behind it.

And you call me a hypocrite?

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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject:

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Since WHEN??????

I know you're joking MB but I meant they lack those qualities not that they possess them.

Tyson lacks size to play defense at Center and Kwame lacks shotblocking and consistent rebounding one covets.

But then again, if a low post base is all Chicago wants - they have to look no further than Othella Harrington.
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RG73
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
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Then he traded a fan favorite in Caron, a hardworking kid, for Kwame, a career underachiever

Funny enough, you were one of the biggest backers of that trade.

You ridiculed me for being against the trade and were completely behind it.

And you call me a hypocrite?



Ummm, did you miss my point entirely?

I was for the trade. A lot of people were not. Hence, Caron, was a fan favorite. Whether I was for or against the trade, he is a hardworking kid. Whether I was for or against the trade, Kwame was an underachiever.

So nothing hypocritical here. I'm explaining why Mitch won't make that move based on fan perception. I'm not stating my personal perceptions--I'm stating the reasons why I feel Mitch wouldn't make that move.

Do I need to spell out the implied reasoning of every post for you?
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
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Since WHEN??????

I know you're joking MB but I meant they lack those qualities not that they possess them.

Tyson lacks size to play defense at Center and Kwame lacks shotblocking and consistent rebounding one covets.

But then again, if a low post base is all Chicago wants - they have to look no further than Othella Harrington.


Ahhh I see. It all comes together like a good book.

Ok, I admit it, even I can get confused from time to time. Call the media and inform them.
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C-BUS LAKERFAN
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject:

Cook and George for Duhon, and Pike. Works on the RealGM trade checker.

Cook is a big, but probably not what they are looking for.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
Then he traded a fan favorite in Caron, a hardworking kid, for Kwame, a career underachiever

Funny enough, you were one of the biggest backers of that trade.

You ridiculed me for being against the trade and were completely behind it.

And you call me a hypocrite?



Ummm, did you miss my point entirely?

I was for the trade. A lot of people were not. Hence, Caron, was a fan favorite. Whether I was for or against the trade, he is a hardworking kid. Whether I was for or against the trade, Kwame was an underachiever.

So nothing hypocritical here. I'm explaining why Mitch won't make that move based on fan perception. I'm not stating my personal perceptions--I'm stating the reasons why I feel Mitch wouldn't make that move.

Do I need to spell out the implied reasoning of every post for you?

Good work in defending your post, but I have seen you bash Kwame and the trade a number of times this season.

Just thought I would finally rub it in a bit, considering how much you did when Caron got traded

It's all good RG. Even I'm dissapointed in Kwame. I was very against the trade as you know, but even I thought no man making 8 million dollars and getting this great of an oppurtunity will screw it up twice ....
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RG73
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
RG73 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
Then he traded a fan favorite in Caron, a hardworking kid, for Kwame, a career underachiever

Funny enough, you were one of the biggest backers of that trade.

You ridiculed me for being against the trade and were completely behind it.

And you call me a hypocrite?



Ummm, did you miss my point entirely?

I was for the trade. A lot of people were not. Hence, Caron, was a fan favorite. Whether I was for or against the trade, he is a hardworking kid. Whether I was for or against the trade, Kwame was an underachiever.

So nothing hypocritical here. I'm explaining why Mitch won't make that move based on fan perception. I'm not stating my personal perceptions--I'm stating the reasons why I feel Mitch wouldn't make that move.

Do I need to spell out the implied reasoning of every post for you?

Good work in defending your post, but I have seen you bash Kwame and the trade a number of times this season.

Just thought I would finally rub it in a bit, considering how much you did when Caron got traded

It's all good RG. Even I'm dissapointed in Kwame. I was very against the trade as you know, but even I thought no man making 8 million dollars and getting this great of an oppurtunity will screw it up twice ....


Well fair play is fair play.

But you'll notice my Kwame bashing has been fairly recent. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for about 35 games or so. I actually didn't really turn on him until I found out he wasn't working out with Kareem. That pretty much did it for me. A guy with a history of being an underachiever, who's supposedly trying to turn that image around, who's having an awful time in the post--my hope is that he'd take the opportunity to work with Kareem. Face up player or not, he's 7 ft., a post up game can't hurt. When I found out via that Kareem interview that the kid is basically wallowing in his Washington ways, that's when I lost it. I could stomach the awfulness so long as I thought he was working at it. He's not.

So hey, I admit it, I was wrong. I thought he'd turn it around. And if anyone wants to take him off our hands, I'll be celebrating. The thought of Kwame under Skiles is amsuing. Skiles would kill him. But hey, the Bulls dealt with Curry all these years, so they know a thing or two about underachieving bigs (although Curry can at least catch a ball and make moves). But while I can admit a mistake, I don't think this is a mistake Mitch wants to admit to publically.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject:

^
The KAJ point is spot on, RG. That really, really, really pissed me off. Here we have a HOF who knows how to develop big's and Kwame tells him thanks, but no thanks?

WTF?

He is no Karl Malone. Karl had a great jumper and could get to the basket (drawing fouls) with ease. Those fouls would lead to FT's made as opposed to clank and airballs.

Again, Kwame is a HUGE dissapointment. But I don't hold a mistake like that on you or the Lakers.

Everyone gets suckered by these types of atheletic bigs. The Knicks gave Curry 60 million and their fans think Bynum's better

Eric Dampier has a huge K too.

I just thank god the Lakers only invested 2 years in Kwame. If he keeps this up, he's gone in 2007. Caron would've been gone in 2006. So in the grand scheme of things, we didn't lose much.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject:

don't trade b cook
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject:

My god folks...You act as if this is the first time taking a gamble on a 23yo hasn't worked out. 23 yo by definition are kids in transition. Expecting Kwame to do things like "reach out to KAJ" is hopeful at best, but unrealistic. Especially considering Kwame had no role models to learn from for the MAJORITY of his upbringing. An average kid would possibly do the responsible thing at 23, but good luck finding a kid with a background as damaged as Kwames maturing at a point much earlier than 27 - 29. It's simply not in the cards, and blaming him for that isn't productive, nor fair. I can't reiterate enough....He's 23 without the benefit of a role model at the formative ages of 8-14 to pattern after. His is a pretty predictable and textbook case. It's painful to see the misinformed jump all over this KID.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
My god folks...You act as if this is the first time taking a gamble on a 23yo hasn't worked out. 23 yo by definition are kids in transition. Expecting Kwame to do things like "reach out to KAJ" is hopeful at best, but unrealistic. Especially considering Kwame had no role models to learn from for the MAJORITY of his upbringing. An average kid would possibly do the responsible thing at 23, but good luck finding a kid with a background as damaged as Kwames maturing at a point much earlier than 27 - 29. It's simply not in the cards, and blaming him for that isn't productive, nor fair. I can't reiterate enough....He's 23 without the benefit of a role model at the formative ages of 8-14 to pattern after. His is a pretty predictable and textbook case. It's painful to see the misinformed jump all over this KID.

That "KID" is paid nearly 8 million dollars and (before this season) some 18 million dollars.

He is NOT a KID. He has been paid over 20 million dollars and if he still doesn't care to improve his basketball game - then he is what he is.

A BUST.

I'm sorry AD - but Kwame has noone to blame but himself. Having a rough childhood doesn't mean you steal money in the NBA. He is stealing money from teams with the amount he gets paid and how little he produces. Why? Because he has great size.

Just because you have great size doesn't mean the ball will go in the basket or opposing teams won't penetrate on you.

People were behind his aquisition in the summer. Those same people are now against the trade because of his antics on the court and disregard for getting better.

So it's not like nobody gave him a chance.

Even the Lakers expected 12/8 out of him. His best season in Wash had him average 10/7.
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject:

Steal money? Correct me if I'm wrong but it was the GOAT in Jordan who chose to give a kid straigh out f high school the money. Jordan and a group of business professionals who are supposed to be able to judge talent. After a combination of in excess of 50 years of NBA experience, it was that front office that CHOSE to GIVE Kwame in excess of $20 million with no track record to speak of. Kwame's not stealing. He didn't promise that he was capable of anything. He got a knock on his door and was offered big dollars for his potential. That's what happens when you gamble. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Can't blame Kwame for that. And then an second organzation - the Lakers - chose to do the same thing, with 4 years of a resume that showed EXACTLY what they were purchasing. THEY CHOSE to give Kwame $8mil even with te benefit of a spotty NBA resume. Again, they gambled, and may have lost; but that certainly isn't Kwame stealing....
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject:

actually though when you look at games when he played 30 minutes or more i think not last year but the year before he had something like 12-9 which what i was expecting out of him. i watched him alot in washington somehow he has went backwards instead of forwards in his development. he looks worse not better than he used to be.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:

^

OK, you stand corrected. You are wrong. Our front office, not the Wizard front office, that gave Kwame the $20 million.


Well it's only $16 million for two years. Unless he turns the corner, he won't be getting that third year at $9 million.


Last edited by angrypuppy on Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:

^
By stealing - I mean he is a vet min player getting paid 8 times that. Ofcourse he is not a criminal theif or literally stealing- it was an expression.

Anyway, I don't like to piss and moan on Lakers. I just get angry about the Kwame thing because I saw it coming and was ridiculed by many for saying so.

And like I said - Kwame is on a short contract. That is good news.
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:

vicman wrote:
actually though when you look at games when he played 30 minutes or more i think not last year but the year before he had something like 12-9 which what i was expecting out of him. i watched him alot in washington somehow he has went backwards instead of forwards in his development. he looks worse not better than he used to be.


And if Kwame was playing in a TRADITIONAL system I suspect those are te very same numbers he'd be producing right now. Sorry, but MOST players suffer offensively during their first year in the triangle. Trade Kwame to a traditional system and many here will be lamenting "Why didn't he do that with us...."
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
^

OK, you stand corrected. You are wrong. Our front office, not the Wizard front office, that gave Kwame the $20 million.

Well I meant that he made some 18 million in Washington and then has probably made 4-5 million his guaranteed money this season

The total earnings exceeds 20 million in his career.

It's not his fault for taking that money. I'm not saying that. But Ralph Lawler said it best

Was asked - What's Kwame good at?
RL - Getting paid.

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RG73
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
My god folks...You act as if this is the first time taking a gamble on a 23yo hasn't worked out. 23 yo by definition are kids in transition. Expecting Kwame to do things like "reach out to KAJ" is hopeful at best, but unrealistic. Especially considering Kwame had no role models to learn from for the MAJORITY of his upbringing. An average kid would possibly do the responsible thing at 23, but good luck finding a kid with a background as damaged as Kwames maturing at a point much earlier than 27 - 29. It's simply not in the cards, and blaming him for that isn't productive, nor fair. I can't reiterate enough....He's 23 without the benefit of a role model at the formative ages of 8-14 to pattern after. His is a pretty predictable and textbook case. It's painful to see the misinformed jump all over this KID.


23 year olds are "kids in transition" only in this bizarre world where we infatilize everyone, and people are perpetual children well into their late 20s, early 30s.

I know all about Kwame's past and it was one reason why I argued for giving him the benefit of the doubt in the trade to begin with. He was coaxed, coddled, given coaching, and, oh yeah, btw, here is the greatest center ever who will work with you one-on-one. No pressure, no mandated in his contract. Just, hey, here's a great player who's said great things about you (e.g. he can be a Karl Malone), and he's here to help you. He is apparently responsible enough to show up to practice, to show up to games, and do all that--so he's got some adult traits. How hard is it for him to accept Kareem's help? No, he's insolent about it--I'm a face up player. Please.

The damaged background thing only goes so far. He's now an adult, he's making $8 million a year and playing on the biggest stage in the game. So what, we should continue to pitty him because he was abused as a kid, because MJ was mean to him? That sucks. Many of us had crappy childhoods, had bad things happen in our lives. There's a point at which you can't keep using excuses. This is it for Kwame. The fact is, no one is going to give him until he's 30. He'll be out of the league at 25. Maybe that is for the better.

Bottom line--as a person, I feel for Kwame, he had it rough. As a professional, I think he's awful and turning down Kareem is the last straw. He should be in therapy--that personal stuff, he's got the means to begin to deal with it. But he's a millionaire, he isn't a tragic figure anymore. So it's pretty simple--one hour a day even, work with Kareem. Hook shot, hook shot, hook shot. If his childhood is preventing him from working on his game then I don't want him on the team. But if he can show up to practice, he can stay an hour later and work with Kareem. Explain to me why he can't do that simple act? Something more important to do?
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