What is crazy is that Ingram is either the same age or younger than many of the top 10 picks in this year's draft!
Main reason I was never concerned about his struggles.
By the way I'm still not expecting great numbers for next season, but by the mid of season 3 I believe he is going to start to show the world what Tiny Dog was a thing of the past and that Sleepy Mamba is coming
There is a dormant Sith Lord inside Brandon Ingram, I'm confident he is going to unleash it in time.
Last edited by nash on Wed May 24, 2017 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
The stats provided were for DLO/Jules/JC/Nance in their 1st years...when they also didn't go through the NBA schedules either.
I just think Ingram needs to retool the mechanics on his shot. No reason he should be such a poor FT shooter. Perhaps the 41% from 3 at Duke may have misled us into believing he was a knockdown 3 point shooter.
But Ingram and Zubac had a insane number of workouts through the season. Number 1 and 2 on the board.
The stats provided were for DLO/Jules/JC/Nance in their 1st years...when they also didn't go through the NBA schedules either.
I just think Ingram needs to retool the mechanics on his shot. No reason he should be such a poor FT shooter. Perhaps the 41% from 3 at Duke may have misled us into believing he was a knockdown 3 point shooter.
But Ingram and Zubac had a insane number of workouts through the season. Number 1 and 2 on the board.
And Randle, Clarkson, Russell, and Nance had Mr. Conditioning as their head coach when they were rookies... what's your point?
The stats provided were for DLO/Jules/JC/Nance in their 1st years...when they also didn't go through the NBA schedules either.
I just think Ingram needs to retool the mechanics on his shot. No reason he should be such a poor FT shooter. Perhaps the 41% from 3 at Duke may have misled us into believing he was a knockdown 3 point shooter.
But Ingram and Zubac had a insane number of workouts through the season. Number 1 and 2 on the board.
And Randle, Clarkson, Russell, and Nance had Mr. Conditioning as their head coach when they were rookies... what's your point?
It's weird the kind of excuses people are making.
Don't you think it is as weird to tell it was a result of a bad coaching staff?
Nobody really knows the reason, but I'm looking for a more plausible explanation. Blockbuster killed them in pre season, Dlo shooting was MIA early in the season and got better right after the all star break. Fresh legs? Who knows?
The stats provided were for DLO/Jules/JC/Nance in their 1st years...when they also didn't go through the NBA schedules either.
I just think Ingram needs to retool the mechanics on his shot. No reason he should be such a poor FT shooter. Perhaps the 41% from 3 at Duke may have misled us into believing he was a knockdown 3 point shooter.
But Ingram and Zubac had a insane number of workouts through the season. Number 1 and 2 on the board.
And Randle, Clarkson, Russell, and Nance had Mr. Conditioning as their head coach when they were rookies... what's your point?
It's weird the kind of excuses people are making.
Don't you think it is as weird to tell it was a result of a bad coaching staff?
Nobody really knows the reason, but I'm looking for a more plausible explanation. Blockbuster killed them in pre season, Dlo shooting was MIA early in the season and got better right after the all star break. Fresh legs? Who knows?
Did I say it was the result of bad coaching staff? I said it makes me question if I should trust them to make Ingram into a good shooter. That doesn't mean they'll make him worse either. I'm not saying I know the answer for why they dipped, but there's hardly any evidence to support fatigue.
In his new Laker Nation interview he mentioned how his length impacted his shot.
With long arms - if you extend your followthrough outward, there's more arm to contest than a shorter armed player. But, if you extend upward, you can be more incontestable
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted? _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:42 pm Post subject:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed? _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:54 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
Yeah, it's too early to say until his body develops. His lankiness will be an asset much more than a liability over time.
DX had projected him as having a good ceiling as a defender, but they had also nailed down his weaknesses at that end (outside of strength) pre-draft:
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed?
I would say he wasn't as engaged or active as we hoped for. But that's not uncommon for a 19year old rookie, especially on a last place team... That's the tangible on-court downfall of being so bad/tanking
His athleticism is very weird, but certainly just needs to be improved.
It's like - naturally, he has heavy feet , and minimal pop in his hips. That makes for Bambi legs. It really takes effort or a full head of steam, for him to be quick/fast. He was a whole beat late chasing over screens, and he's not that airheaded, he was just slow. Takes a lot of effort for him to get his body moving quick right now. Also ties to how he couldn't really pop off of one leg early in the year, it took a lot of effort to do that. I think he gained strength through the season, and so it took less and less effort ---- that's how you get rid of Bambi legs
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed?
I would say he wasn't as engaged or active as we hoped for. But that's not uncommon for a 19year old rookie, especially on a last place team... That's the tangible on-court downfall of being so bad/tanking
His athleticism is very weird, but certainly just needs to be improved.
It's like - naturally, he has heavy feet , and minimal pop in his hips. That makes for Bambi legs. It really takes effort or a full head of steam, for him to be quick/fast. He was a whole beat late chasing over screens, and he's not that airheaded, he was just slow. Takes a lot of effort for him to get his body moving quick right now. Also ties to how he couldn't really pop off of one leg early in the year, it took a lot of effort to do that. I think he gained strength through the season, and so it took less and less effort ---- that's how you get rid of Bambi legs
Funny cause he looked pretty quick to me, nor did he have trouble getting around defenders.
With all the posters he put guys on I'm curious as to what weird athleticism means.
I suppose all of this is subjective.. which is why I wouldn't put anything into anyones projection, good or bad. They're fun to do though. =)
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed?
I would say he wasn't as engaged or active as we hoped for. But that's not uncommon for a 19year old rookie, especially on a last place team... That's the tangible on-court downfall of being so bad/tanking
His athleticism is very weird, but certainly just needs to be improved.
It's like - naturally, he has heavy feet , and minimal pop in his hips. That makes for Bambi legs. It really takes effort or a full head of steam, for him to be quick/fast. He was a whole beat late chasing over screens, and he's not that airheaded, he was just slow. Takes a lot of effort for him to get his body moving quick right now. Also ties to how he couldn't really pop off of one leg early in the year, it took a lot of effort to do that. I think he gained strength through the season, and so it took less and less effort ---- that's how you get rid of Bambi legs
Funny cause he looked pretty quick to me, nor did he have trouble getting around defenders.
With all the posters he put guys on I'm curious as to what weird athleticism means.
I suppose all of this is subjective.. which is why I wouldn't put anything into anyones projection, good or bad. They're fun to do though. =)
Well that's why I said that it improved throughout the year, especially his leaping ability.
Look at the lack of burst on this crossover, you can see the explosion deficiency in his hips. Imagine the effort it takes to be quick, when you have that lack of burst in your hips
He's naturally slow right now. It's why Jonathan Issac has even been marketed as more fluid and athletic in tight spaces - and then KD is on a different level.
Ingram had good flashes of explosion, but naturally, just traversing the court without full exertion , this dude is slow - and it showed on defense, glaringly
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed?
I would say he wasn't as engaged or active as we hoped for. But that's not uncommon for a 19year old rookie, especially on a last place team... That's the tangible on-court downfall of being so bad/tanking
His athleticism is very weird, but certainly just needs to be improved.
It's like - naturally, he has heavy feet , and minimal pop in his hips. That makes for Bambi legs. It really takes effort or a full head of steam, for him to be quick/fast. He was a whole beat late chasing over screens, and he's not that airheaded, he was just slow. Takes a lot of effort for him to get his body moving quick right now. Also ties to how he couldn't really pop off of one leg early in the year, it took a lot of effort to do that. I think he gained strength through the season, and so it took less and less effort ---- that's how you get rid of Bambi legs
Funny cause he looked pretty quick to me, nor did he have trouble getting around defenders.
With all the posters he put guys on I'm curious as to what weird athleticism means.
I suppose all of this is subjective.. which is why I wouldn't put anything into anyones projection, good or bad. They're fun to do though. =)
Well that's why I said that it improved throughout the year, especially his leaping ability.
Look at the lack of burst on this crossover, you can see the explosion deficiency in his hips. Imagine the effort it takes to be quick, when you have that lack of burst in your hips
He's naturally slow right now. It's why Jonathan Issac has even been marketed as more fluid and athletic in tight spaces - and then KD is on a different level.
Ingram had good flashes of explosion, but naturally, just traversing the court without full exertion , this dude is slow - and it showed on defense, glaringly
Not sure why that's relevant at this point since he's faster and more athletic now than he was at the beginning of the season. "Slow as hell" just isn't something I would characterize him as. But you're entitled to believe that. =)
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed?
I would say he wasn't as engaged or active as we hoped for. But that's not uncommon for a 19year old rookie, especially on a last place team... That's the tangible on-court downfall of being so bad/tanking
His athleticism is very weird, but certainly just needs to be improved.
It's like - naturally, he has heavy feet , and minimal pop in his hips. That makes for Bambi legs. It really takes effort or a full head of steam, for him to be quick/fast. He was a whole beat late chasing over screens, and he's not that airheaded, he was just slow. Takes a lot of effort for him to get his body moving quick right now. Also ties to how he couldn't really pop off of one leg early in the year, it took a lot of effort to do that. I think he gained strength through the season, and so it took less and less effort ---- that's how you get rid of Bambi legs
Funny cause he looked pretty quick to me, nor did he have trouble getting around defenders.
With all the posters he put guys on I'm curious as to what weird athleticism means.
I suppose all of this is subjective.. which is why I wouldn't put anything into anyones projection, good or bad. They're fun to do though. =)
Well that's why I said that it improved throughout the year, especially his leaping ability.
Look at the lack of burst on this crossover, you can see the explosion deficiency in his hips. Imagine the effort it takes to be quick, when you have that lack of burst in your hips
He's naturally slow right now. It's why Jonathan Issac has even been marketed as more fluid and athletic in tight spaces - and then KD is on a different level.
Ingram had good flashes of explosion, but naturally, just traversing the court without full exertion , this dude is slow - and it showed on defense, glaringly
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:31 pm Post subject:
VicXLakers wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Can someone who knows more than I do break down how Ingram was on defense this year, and if it was what we wanted to see? I know young guys are usually bad defenders, that's fine. His defensive numbers compare similarly to Jaylen Brown, looks like maybe Brown was better, but does Ingram still project to be a good defender? Was he what we wanted?
I don't think anyone can project what he will be defensively, time will tell us.
Shouldn't we be able to, though? Surely there's some takeaways from his rookie season. Many projected him to be a good defender as a college prospect, why can't we do the same now? That was another selling point on him, defense.
Because of his Bambi legs. He was slow as hell on defense, specifically when chasing over screens.
He's physically underdeveloped in a couple of ways, and until that improves - he's not going to be a good defender, finisher, quick on his dribble moves. We gotta wait til this kid hits 21y.o. at least
That's fair. Was he engaged, active? Hit me earlier this evening that I don't think I paid attention to him much on that end. It was more him just being physically overwhelmed?
I would say he wasn't as engaged or active as we hoped for. But that's not uncommon for a 19year old rookie, especially on a last place team... That's the tangible on-court downfall of being so bad/tanking
His athleticism is very weird, but certainly just needs to be improved.
It's like - naturally, he has heavy feet , and minimal pop in his hips. That makes for Bambi legs. It really takes effort or a full head of steam, for him to be quick/fast. He was a whole beat late chasing over screens, and he's not that airheaded, he was just slow. Takes a lot of effort for him to get his body moving quick right now. Also ties to how he couldn't really pop off of one leg early in the year, it took a lot of effort to do that. I think he gained strength through the season, and so it took less and less effort ---- that's how you get rid of Bambi legs
Funny cause he looked pretty quick to me, nor did he have trouble getting around defenders.
With all the posters he put guys on I'm curious as to what weird athleticism means.
I suppose all of this is subjective.. which is why I wouldn't put anything into anyones projection, good or bad. They're fun to do though. =)
Well that's why I said that it improved throughout the year, especially his leaping ability.
Look at the lack of burst on this crossover, you can see the explosion deficiency in his hips. Imagine the effort it takes to be quick, when you have that lack of burst in your hips
He's naturally slow right now. It's why Jonathan Issac has even been marketed as more fluid and athletic in tight spaces - and then KD is on a different level.
Ingram had good flashes of explosion, but naturally, just traversing the court without full exertion , this dude is slow - and it showed on defense, glaringly
That's what I was thinking.. wanted to remain cordial though =)
That play was mid February
I'm high on Ingram, I just saw that it was obvious that his athleticism/bambi legs hindered him -- that play above is how he changed directions on defense chasing around players off-ball. very slow.
I think this athletic deficiency is correctable, from the studies I've seen - strength will fix it. It's really not surprising that he has this deficiency, because he's so weak - especially in the hips apparently.
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