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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | Yeah forget KD. Let's start with "Tayshaun Prince with ballhandling". I thought that was his floor coming into the league. Now I'd be happy to see him reach that level within his rookie contract.
I always thought his peak would look something like Iguodala's. An 18/5/5 type player on offense and 1st team all-defense. I just don't know if he'll develop into a good enough athlete to reach that level.
He'll never be KD, and there's no shame in that. I feel like people aren't yet ready to admit that KD is an all-time great player (not on this forum, just in general) |
The "Next KD" stuff was just ludicrous from the get-go. I was hoping BI could become a Paul George level All-Star. However, with our FO and coaching staff's dumbass way of handling his "development", I don't know if he can achieve that goal HERE. Imagine if our FO had a young Kawhi. Would he ever have become an All-NBA talent?
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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LakersNewEra
Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 1526
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| He refuses to play to his strengths. Dirk is the player he should emulate. His bread and butter should be quick simple shots that he can always get off due to his length. Even if he doesnt make them, its fine. He is young, its a work in progress. But he should not be driving to the basket and penatrate. It is not his game, he doesnt have the speed for it. He is a slow footed player. It is what it is. But he is a very long player. He can get his shots off easily no matter who is guarding him. I definitely see him as a very good player down the line but hes gotta play to his strengths. |
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Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| WVLAKERFAN1 wrote: | | Its amazing how fast lakers fans have went from Ingram is untouchable, to now he wont be in the league in 2 years. I don't go to other teams sights so maybe its just fans in general but i swear lakers fans are addicted to hyperbole and have zero patience. |
Magic was the one who made the kid "untouchable," not the fans. |
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2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10811
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | | He refuses to play to his strengths. Dirk is the player he should emulate. His bread and butter should be quick simple shots that he can always get off due to his length. Even if he doesnt make them, its fine. He is young, its a work in progress. But he should not be driving to the basket and penatrate. It is not his game, he doesnt have the speed for it. He is a slow footed player. It is what it is. But he is a very long player. He can get his shots off easily no matter who is guarding him. I definitely see him as a very good player down the line but hes gotta play to his strengths. |
the besting shooting PF ever is who he should emulate? A top 10 scorer of all time?
the little girl cannot even score. she's scared. |
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Joe Pesci
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI had a 6'10 wingspan instead of a monstrous 7'3 wingspan...what would his draft stock have been?
I think he has some interesting tools, but the skills (like shooting, footwork, etc.) need a LOT of work. |
Very, very true. He reminds me of Derrick McKey.
At this point, there's nothing wrong with giving him a structured 20-25 minutes a game off the bench. No shame. |
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GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | He refuses to play to his strengths. Dirk is the player he should emulate. His bread and butter should be quick simple shots that he can always get off due to his length. Even if he doesnt make them, its fine. He is young, its a work in progress. But he should not be driving to the basket and penatrate. It is not his game, he doesnt have the speed for it. He is a slow footed player. It is what it is. But he is a very long player. He can get his shots off easily no matter who is guarding him. I definitely see him as a very good player down the line but hes gotta play to his strengths. |
the besting shooting PF ever is who he should emulate? A top 10 scorer of all time?
the little girl cannot even score. she's scared. |
Nah, man. Take a couple of days off. |
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI had a 6'10 wingspan instead of a monstrous 7'3 wingspan...what would his draft stock have been?
I think he has some interesting tools, but the skills (like shooting, footwork, etc.) need a LOT of work. |
But that's literally like saying " if X player was 4 inches shorter... would he be good" , it's literally as important of a tool |
Right, that's my point. If he had "average" measureables, would his on-court talent/skill be enough to justify a #2 pick?
I think we can mold him into a really useful player. But I don't see him with enough actual talent/skill right now to be an impactful scorer, something that Magic (maybe Luke) have pegged him to be. I think it hurts his development. I thought he could in due time be a really nice Batum/AK47 type hybrid (I know, AK47's defense was insane). |
Last year, many of us soon realised this kid is not going to be a scorer like the next KD and envision him to become a player like Kawhi or Batum. Clearly Magic doesn't feel the same and just proves it again that he has problems with talent evaluation. |
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GonzagaAlum
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 3021
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | He refuses to play to his strengths. Dirk is the player he should emulate. His bread and butter should be quick simple shots that he can always get off due to his length. Even if he doesnt make them, its fine. He is young, its a work in progress. But he should not be driving to the basket and penatrate. It is not his game, he doesnt have the speed for it. He is a slow footed player. It is what it is. But he is a very long player. He can get his shots off easily no matter who is guarding him. I definitely see him as a very good player down the line but hes gotta play to his strengths. |
the besting shooting PF ever is who he should emulate? A top 10 scorer of all time?
the little girl cannot even score. she's scared. |
The shots he takes, yes. He doesn’t need to develop a dribble drive to be great. He needs to be a good catch and shoot guy.
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: |
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It's getting hot in hurr.
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Music is my medicine |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Let's not do what was done to DLO on Ingram.
I really like the kid and he seems like a gym rat and hard worker. It's not his fault that the FO heaped too many expectations on him so soon.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:13 am Post subject: |
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dont worry guys Lebron and PG13 our lining up to join us next year!
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(bleep) Kawhi |
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lonzobryant
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 594
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Something is off about Ingram but I can't tell what it is. I used to think he'd be KD lite but now I'm skeptical that he can even get to Otto Porter levels. I'd rather see him flow with the offense instead of trying to take over the game as he think he's our best player. I know us fans have put that pressure on him but I just don't think that's who he is. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| RichD wrote: | | Would Brooklyn take Ingram and Deng? Might be good for both parties to start over. Brooklyn has a better coach than we do so Ingram would probably do great. And we could go all in on our 2 max stars plan. New coach next year plus 2 max might work |
Probably for Mozgov
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | Something is off about Ingram but I can't tell what it is. I used to think he'd be KD lite but now I'm skeptical that he can even get to Otto Porter levels. I'd rather see him flow with the offense instead of trying to take over the game as he think he's our best player. I know us fans have put that pressure on him but I just don't think that's who he is. |
Otto is playing within his role and got rewarded handsomely for it. HE was also a former #3 pick.
There's an insane agenda from our FO that you have to be a "leader" or a "20 ppg" scorer to justify your place as a high draft pick. Why not let them play within their roles? Ingram could be a great player within his role.
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lonzobryant
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Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 594
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | Something is off about Ingram but I can't tell what it is. I used to think he'd be KD lite but now I'm skeptical that he can even get to Otto Porter levels. I'd rather see him flow with the offense instead of trying to take over the game as he think he's our best player. I know us fans have put that pressure on him but I just don't think that's who he is. |
Otto is playing within his role and got rewarded handsomely for it. HE was also a former #3 pick.
There's an insane agenda from our FO that you have to be a "leader" or a "20 ppg" scorer to justify your place as a high draft pick. Why not let them play within their roles? Ingram could be a great player within his role. |
Agree 100% |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| RichD wrote: | | Ingram is 3 to 5 years away. Can we wait that long. I don't think we can or will. |
Then we will be a failure
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I'm OK with BI struggling because he's a young player who still has some work to do in terms of his skills and his body. What I don't like is the tone-deafness he has been exhibiting with regards to his scoring aspirations. It's one thing to miss shots when you're getting good lucks, but it's another thing altogether to force up shots the way BI has consistently done since adopting an alpha scorer mentality.
He had a nice final preseason game, but I cringed when I heard that he didn't think that scoring 20 ppg was too much to expect from him because it isn't difficult to score 5 points per quarter. Newsflash BI - it is too much to ask from you when your jumper is still a work in progress (including the footwork necessary to remain balanced when shooting) and your supposed bread-and-butter (taking it to the basket) yields disastrous results.
BI can be a very effective player for us if he just allows the game to come to him. However, he and the coaching staff need to recognize that he simply isn't ready to create offense for himself on a consistent basis. Getting back tone-deafness, he mentioned last night after the game that he would take the same shots again if given the opportunity. I don't like the stubbornness I'm seeing and hearing from him. |
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ocho
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Posts: 53835
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What I don't like is the tone-deafness he has been exhibiting with regards to his scoring aspirations. |
It's almost as if an entire organization and fanbase has filled his head with notions that he's something he's not.
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | | He refuses to play to his strengths. Dirk is the player he should emulate. His bread and butter should be quick simple shots that he can always get off due to his length. Even if he doesnt make them, its fine. He is young, its a work in progress. But he should not be driving to the basket and penatrate. It is not his game, he doesnt have the speed for it. He is a slow footed player. It is what it is. But he is a very long player. He can get his shots off easily no matter who is guarding him. I definitely see him as a very good player down the line but hes gotta play to his strengths. |
Pretty much spot on.
For Ingram to be great, he needs to follow the path of those that aren't the most athletic, the quickest, but have a clear advantage based off something very unique. We are talking Dirk, Curry, Reggie.
In his case, its his length as a perimeter player. He jumper should be almost impossible to contest. He needs to hone his perimeter skills as a jump shooter before even thinking about driving into the lane. If he can knock down shots from anywhere on the court and only drives when he has wide open lanes, he becomes a star. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | What I don't like is the tone-deafness he has been exhibiting with regards to his scoring aspirations. |
It's almost as if an entire organization and fanbase has filled his head with notions that he's something he's not. |
If things don't change, this will be followed by:
-Watch him fail miserably at being something he's not
-Kill his confidence
-Trade him for much less than you could have gotten for him last year
-Watch him start to become the player he was actually meant to be somewhere else.
That'll be fun. |
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textbook
Star Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2015
Posts: 2181
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | He refuses to play to his strengths. Dirk is the player he should emulate. His bread and butter should be quick simple shots that he can always get off due to his length. Even if he doesnt make them, its fine. He is young, its a work in progress. But he should not be driving to the basket and penatrate. It is not his game, he doesnt have the speed for it. He is a slow footed player. It is what it is. But he is a very long player. He can get his shots off easily no matter who is guarding him. I definitely see him as a very good player down the line but hes gotta play to his strengths. |
Pretty much spot on.
For Ingram to be great, he needs to follow the path of those that aren't the most athletic, the quickest, but have a clear advantage based off something very unique. We are talking Dirk, Curry, Reggie.
In his case, its his length as a perimeter player. He jumper should be almost impossible to contest. He needs to hone his perimeter skills as a jump shooter before even thinking about driving into the lane. If he can knock down shots from anywhere on the court and only drives when he has wide open lanes, he becomes a star. |
I disagree. The reason his season turned around last year was because he started driving to the basket and getting easy lay-ups/dunks. That gave him the confidence he needed. Now, he's just relying on the same too much. He's got the length and an ok first step to get to the rim. He just needs to pick his spots. His biggest issue is confidence. He's sounding confident after the games about his shots, but you can tell from his body language that hes not. He needs some face time with Tony Robbins. But remember he's so tall and long that his shots are not really contested. He can get an open look virtually anytime ala Durant. He just needs to not give a feck and play smarter. |
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Wildchild027
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Posts: 3846
Location: A-T-L-A-N-T-A
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | What I don't like is the tone-deafness he has been exhibiting with regards to his scoring aspirations. |
It's almost as if an entire organization and fanbase has filled his head with notions that he's something he's not. |
If things don't change, this will be followed by:
-Watch him fail miserably at being something he's not
-Kill his confidence
-Trade him for much less than you could have gotten for him last year
-Watch him start to become the player he was actually meant to be somewhere else.
That'll be fun. |
Ingram, to me, is why I hate poster who say, you don't trade the #2 pick to get a superstar player. It was clear to anyone with eyes that Russell was more suited to break out. One guy was just better at basketball than the other.
If we were planning on going after two max players, while not keep the guy that the most productive player, that was also still on a rookie deal? I am not given up on Ingram yet, but his development has been really lacking. |
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123Cancun
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Joined: 20 Jun 2016
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Seems like he regressed from last year. I remember think he looked good last year (at least in the beginning of the season) because he didn't try to do too much, made the right play, and usually made more positive contributions than negative - he usually seemed to help the team.
This year he's forcing things way too much already. He's not a scorer at this point and shouldn't try to be one, at least until he gets some confidence and his outside shot starts falling. His outside shot looks terrible, he's slow when he drives, and if he does get past the first man he lacks the strength to finish through contact.
He needs to take a step back and let the game come to him, make smart decisions, play unselfishly, and let Lonzo get him some good looks and take those shots when they are available. Stop worrying about trying to force your way to 20 points via low percentage iso ball. |
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Practice
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | After the game, Ingram made it clear that the shots he took were exactly the ones he practices. He plans to take the same ones again tonight |
https://twitter.com/shahanla/status/921428878995759105
So expect a lot more midrange shots over bigs tonight. He also only shot one three last night on a related note. |
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Username
Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 4718
Location: Out There
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| That's exactly what I want to hear, to be honest. The last thing I want is the guy losing his confidence and being afraid to shoot. |
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