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SocalDevin
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 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Breen wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | Ingram has a good mid range game. His 3pt shot is questionable but his mid range game is good. He should really utilize it more often. |
I keep reading this. Does he actually? BI is shooting 21.9% from 3-10 ft and 26.1% from 10-16 ft on the season |
Well he clearly did.. refer to his shot percentage from mid range last year, he was in elite company. His shot mechanics were reworked to shoot with more efficiency from 3. Which accounts for his struggles shooting from mid range this year.
I thought it would be apparent to everyone.. Including those who keep harping on his shooting that he would struggle initially getting acclimated to the changes to his shot. Just seems like common sense to me. Like why wouldn't he struggle?
We may not see him shooting the way he was accustomed to shooting until the tail end of the season, or perhaps the next one. I remember mentioning this during the off season. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Mike Breen wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | Ingram has a good mid range game. His 3pt shot is questionable but his mid range game is good. He should really utilize it more often. |
I keep reading this. Does he actually? BI is shooting 21.9% from 3-10 ft and 26.1% from 10-16 ft on the season |
Well he clearly did.. refer to his shot percentage from mid range last year, he was in elite company. His shot mechanics were reworked to shoot with more efficiency from 3. Which accounts for his struggles shooting from mid range this year.
I thought it would be apparent to everyone.. Including those who keep harping on his shooting that he would struggle initially getting acclimated to the changes to his shot. Just seems like common sense to me. Like why wouldn't he struggle?
We may not see him shooting the way he was accustomed to shooting until the tail end of the season, or perhaps the next one. I remember mentioning this during the off season. |
What do you refer to as mid range? He didn't hit even forty percent from any zone beyond three feet last year.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Mike Breen wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | Ingram has a good mid range game. His 3pt shot is questionable but his mid range game is good. He should really utilize it more often. |
I keep reading this. Does he actually? BI is shooting 21.9% from 3-10 ft and 26.1% from 10-16 ft on the season |
Well he clearly did.. refer to his shot percentage from mid range last year, he was in elite company. His shot mechanics were reworked to shoot with more efficiency from 3. Which accounts for his struggles shooting from mid range this year.
I thought it would be apparent to everyone.. Including those who keep harping on his shooting that he would struggle initially getting acclimated to the changes to his shot. Just seems like common sense to me. Like why wouldn't he struggle?
We may not see him shooting the way he was accustomed to shooting until the tail end of the season, or perhaps the next one. I remember mentioning this during the off season. |
If his mechanics were changed to work from 3.....maybe he should take more 3s than midrange shots then? |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Mike Breen wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | Ingram has a good mid range game. His 3pt shot is questionable but his mid range game is good. He should really utilize it more often. |
I keep reading this. Does he actually? BI is shooting 21.9% from 3-10 ft and 26.1% from 10-16 ft on the season |
41% from 16-3pt range.
His shot isn't consistent yet. He's shown flashes. Once his shot starts falling more consistently especially from 3 he will be an elite player |
41% from 16<3PT is a little above average relative to the rest of the league, but we shouldn't be taking many 2-pointers that yield just 41% in the first place.
30% from 3 > 41% from 16ft to the 3PT line. He needs to take more 3's, it's just math. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | la4win wrote: | | chickenjoy24 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | HeroBall wrote: | | only 7 FGA tonight. either he needs to demand the ball more or luke is simply not playing through him. the fact that low IQ JC had almost twice the FGA as brandon is unacceptable. |
That's on Brandon...
Kuzma finds himself shots. BI needs to do the same. |
Kuzma is much more confidant in catch and shoot. BI needs to iso his way to buckets. |
This.
Brandon doesn't have the confidence in his jumpshot to shoot the ball right after he catches it, like how Kuzma, or other players like KD and Melo does.
He knows his best option is penetrate/drive. Once he finds a solid midrange, he'll be unstoppable. Not a lot of players are long enough to challenge BI. |
How about settling up more screen plays for one dribble pull up or come of the
screen and shoot open shots. I bet he can do good on those. I’m questioning our coach a lot this days. |
I was wondering why they don’t run that cross screen that KCP always gets for Ingram. Maybe worried the other team will go under the screen and he won’t be able to curl. Luke’s offense leaves a lot to be desired but they are great defensively and a lot of the offensive issues are personal based. I give Luke a pass on the offense so far cause of the stellar D and complete lack of shooters. |
Yeah, there's no reason to trail Ingram, he can't pull-up and shoot out of it. We ran the handoff action that we run for KCP out of Horns for Ingram a few times earlier in the season as well and the offense stalled almost every time. |
So what kind of actions do you think they should run to get him more shots? Or do you think that just needs to happen naturally? Or do you think he’s getting enough shots now? |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| He's getting a lot of semi-open looks from 3, a few a game - shots most wings take, he just refuses to |
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la4win
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Posts: 2247
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | la4win wrote: | | chickenjoy24 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | HeroBall wrote: | | only 7 FGA tonight. either he needs to demand the ball more or luke is simply not playing through him. the fact that low IQ JC had almost twice the FGA as brandon is unacceptable. |
That's on Brandon...
Kuzma finds himself shots. BI needs to do the same. |
Kuzma is much more confidant in catch and shoot. BI needs to iso his way to buckets. |
This.
Brandon doesn't have the confidence in his jumpshot to shoot the ball right after he catches it, like how Kuzma, or other players like KD and Melo does.
He knows his best option is penetrate/drive. Once he finds a solid midrange, he'll be unstoppable. Not a lot of players are long enough to challenge BI. |
How about settling up more screen plays for one dribble pull up or come of the
screen and shoot open shots. I bet he can do good on those. I’m questioning our coach a lot this days. |
I was wondering why they don’t run that cross screen that KCP always gets for Ingram. Maybe worried the other team will go under the screen and he won’t be able to curl. Luke’s offense leaves a lot to be desired but they are great defensively and a lot of the offensive issues are personal based. I give Luke a pass on the offense so far cause of the stellar D and complete lack of shooters. |
Yeah, there's no reason to trail Ingram, he can't pull-up and shoot out of it. We ran the handoff action that we run for KCP out of Horns for Ingram a few times earlier in the season as well and the offense stalled almost every time. |
I know I don't get to watch many of the games, but have you seen enough plays to think he can't pull-up and shoot out of screen? I feel confident if gets clean look, he will make more shots. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | So what kind of actions do you think they should run to get him more shots? Or do you think that just needs to happen naturally? Or do you think he’s getting enough shots now? |
It depends on how the defense is defending him. There are some nights where he isn't going to get many shots because there are a lot of holes in his offensive repertoire where he can't/won't take shots that other guys will.
The area that he's improved most is his ability to drive to the basket, and he's getting better at passing out of that. He's also improved at going left on drives. So if the defense is ball-pressuring him those ISO touches up top are good for him. He's also been good on ball screens when the big doesn't hedge. But it all depends on what the defense is doing. There are some nights where he just won't get many looks. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| la4win wrote: | | I know I don't get to watch many of the games, but have you seen enough plays to think he can't pull-up and shoot out of screen? I feel confident if gets clean look, he will make more shots. |
Yes, he passes up a lot of shots that other guys have no problem taking. |
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SocalDevin
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Mike Breen wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | Ingram has a good mid range game. His 3pt shot is questionable but his mid range game is good. He should really utilize it more often. |
I keep reading this. Does he actually? BI is shooting 21.9% from 3-10 ft and 26.1% from 10-16 ft on the season |
Well he clearly did.. refer to his shot percentage from mid range last year, he was in elite company. His shot mechanics were reworked to shoot with more efficiency from 3. Which accounts for his struggles shooting from mid range this year.
I thought it would be apparent to everyone.. Including those who keep harping on his shooting that he would struggle initially getting acclimated to the changes to his shot. Just seems like common sense to me. Like why wouldn't he struggle?
We may not see him shooting the way he was accustomed to shooting until the tail end of the season, or perhaps the next one. I remember mentioning this during the off season. |
What do you refer to as mid range? He didn't hit even forty percent from any zone beyond three feet last year. |
After the all-star break he was. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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If his mechanics were changed to work from 3.....maybe he should take more 3s than midrange shots then?[/quote]
Yea that would make sense if he was ready to take them.. Right now he isn't.
If it's not there it's just not there. Not sure why you guys want him taking shots he's not going to make at a decent percentage. Playing within his current capabilities is why we haven't seen any poor performances lately.
He hasn't even played two full seasons guys lol.. The shot will come, think it's a little early to be concerned about it.. I could see if he were in his 3rd or 4th season.
We're harping on it for a guy that's not even half way through his second season.
Zo has been one of the worst shooters ever.. I doubt anyones worried. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ranks All SFs, Last 5: Pts 11th, Reb 4th, Ast 2nd, Blk 2nd, Stl 55th
Got that from the "Young Core" thread.. Not bad.. Not bad at all. This guy is only 20 years old btw. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | So what kind of actions do you think they should run to get him more shots? Or do you think that just needs to happen naturally? Or do you think he’s getting enough shots now? |
It depends on how the defense is defending him. There are some nights where he isn't going to get many shots because there are a lot of holes in his offensive repertoire where he can't/won't take shots that other guys will.
The area that he's improved most is his ability to drive to the basket, and he's getting better at passing out of that. He's also improved at going left on drives. So if the defense is ball-pressuring him those ISO touches up top are good for him. He's also been good on ball screens when the big doesn't hedge. But it all depends on what the defense is doing. There are some nights where he just won't get many looks. |
I totally agree with this. |
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AC Green's V-Card
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Breen wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | | Ingram has a good mid range game. His 3pt shot is questionable but his mid range game is good. He should really utilize it more often. |
I keep reading this. Does he actually? BI is shooting 21.9% from 3-10 ft and 26.1% from 10-16 ft on the season |
Super small sample size, though. Only 35 shots from 3-10 ft and 25 from 10-16 ft. |
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LakersDC
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Posts: 1504
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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BI has shown how much he has worked on his strength over the last few games, penetrating at will and drawing contact and finishing, something he didn't do often last year. His early season struggles have affected his confidence in his perimeter shot though. It's too bad as his iso/penetration game is ridiculous now - just needs to open up the floor a little bit with a solid perimeter shot, which I know he has in him.
Like Lonzo, BI had a pretty good 3 pt % in college (and both had sub-par FT %'s, which tend to be more indicative of whether someone is a good shooter). I'm confident that BI can become a good shooter, and when that happens, I could see his offensive game becoming elite (20+ ppg).
We just need to bring in Chip Engelland from the Spurs. He grew up in Pacific Palisades - we need to bring him home. Imagine BI and Lonzo with elite shooting - we'd be back to contenders in no time. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Loving the drives, loving his defensive improvements. He needs to regain confidence in his three point shot as it will open things up for him but that may not happen this year. They just need to stay away from Ingram at power forward. He has a 57% win pct and +3.7 PER at small forward, and an 11% (in 9 games) win pct and -14.7 PER at power forward. |
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999
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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When boogie was on the table I wish Mitch did include Ingram in the trade piece instead of turning it down. I just don’t see any star power in Ingram
Could you imagine if we did make that trade
Luol Ingram and Randle for boogie
Dlo and slozgov for kuzma and Brook.
Cousins
Kuzma
Lonzo
All on the same floor. That would be fire |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 999 wrote: | When boogie was on the table I wish Mitch did include Ingram in the trade piece instead of turning it down. I just don’t see any star power in Ingram
Could you imagine if we did make that trade
Luol Ingram and Randle for boogie
Dlo and slozgov for kuzma and Brook.
Cousins
Kuzma
Lonzo
All on the same floor. That would be fire |
so you knew back then we were gonna draft a stud in Kuzma last February were there was a hug chance we wouldnt even have our lottery pick let alone made a trade to get houstons pick |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Loving the drives, loving his defensive improvements. He needs to regain confidence in his three point shot as it will open things up for him but that may not happen this year. They just need to stay away from Ingram at power forward. He has a 57% win pct and +3.7 PER at small forward, and an 11% (in 9 games) win pct and -14.7 PER at power forward. |
How many minutes has he played at PF? BB-reference positional estimates have it at 9%. I honestly can't recall more than a minute of it. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | Loving the drives, loving his defensive improvements. He needs to regain confidence in his three point shot as it will open things up for him but that may not happen this year. They just need to stay away from Ingram at power forward. He has a 57% win pct and +3.7 PER at small forward, and an 11% (in 9 games) win pct and -14.7 PER at power forward. |
How many minutes has he played at PF? BB-reference positional estimates have it at 9%. I honestly can't recall more than a minute of it. |
They've done it a few times. 9% sounds about right. |
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 999 wrote: | When boogie was on the table I wish Mitch did include Ingram in the trade piece instead of turning it down. I just don’t see any star power in Ingram
Could you imagine if we did make that trade
Luol Ingram and Randle for boogie
Dlo and slozgov for kuzma and Brook.
Cousins
Kuzma
Lonzo
All on the same floor. That would be fire |
Cousins can be had without giving up Randle and Ingram via free agency.. Not sure why anyone would make that deal. Those same players can be on the floor next season smh.. With Randle and Ingram. |
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tox
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Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Zach Lowe wrote: | That other celebrated pick from the 2016 draft -- the even younger one -- is starting to figure out how useful those long toothpick arms can be on both ends of the floor.
About 42 percent of Ingram's shots have come at the rim, up from 27 percent last season. Ingram doesn't have a super-explosive first step, but he doesn't really need one. If he can nudge his defender into retreat mode, his arms are so long, he can sort of drive into the guy's chest and lay the ball in over his head.
He's taking contact in the air, hanging and coaxing in tough shots as his defender returns to the ground. His free throws are up. Ingram has good passing vision. The more damage he does off the bounce, the more passing lanes will become available to him. He walked into the NBA with good passing vision.
The only downside: The uptick in shots near the basket has come at the expense of 3-pointers. Ingram's attempts from deep are way down, and he's canning just 30 percent. Ingram eventually has to become a serviceable 3-point shooter if he's going to play alongside Lonzo Ball. But in the short term, this tradeoff is fine; some young guys improve in increments. Ingram honing one skill now doesn't mean he'll neglect the other one forever.
He is becoming a menacing defender away from the ball. When he spreads those arms, he covers a lot of territory. He's almost in two places at once. He can crash into the paint, and snap back in time to interfere with a pass to his man.
He dissuades some opponents from throwing that pass in the first place, and every half-second of hesitation is a mini-win for the defense.
The Lakers ranking a shocking fourth in points allowed per possession isn't a total fluke. Total flukes don't typically last a quarter of the season. Two of their core healthy big men -- Randle and Kyle Kuzma -- are quick enough to switch onto ball-handlers, and their guards have embraced the dirty work of jostling with big men on the flip side of those switches. Josh Hart is sturdy. Ball is a pest. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Ingram are engaged help-and-recover guys on the wing. Everyone has bought in.
I'd still bet on the Lakers falling back toward 10th, and maybe a hair worse. Opponents have hit just 31 percent of their 3s, the lowest figure in the league, and they've been ice cold on wide-open triples. Teams are even bonking around the rim, and the Lakers allow a ton of shots there. (Only Milwaukee has yielded more as a percentage of all attempts, per Cleaning The Glass.) This stuff will revert.
Still: Hanging around the top 10 in defense would be a huge, unexpected success.
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Zach Lowe wrote: | That other celebrated pick from the 2016 draft -- the even younger one -- is starting to figure out how useful those long toothpick arms can be on both ends of the floor.
About 42 percent of Ingram's shots have come at the rim, up from 27 percent last season. Ingram doesn't have a super-explosive first step, but he doesn't really need one. If he can nudge his defender into retreat mode, his arms are so long, he can sort of drive into the guy's chest and lay the ball in over his head.
He's taking contact in the air, hanging and coaxing in tough shots as his defender returns to the ground. His free throws are up. Ingram has good passing vision. The more damage he does off the bounce, the more passing lanes will become available to him. He walked into the NBA with good passing vision.
The only downside: The uptick in shots near the basket has come at the expense of 3-pointers. Ingram's attempts from deep are way down, and he's canning just 30 percent. Ingram eventually has to become a serviceable 3-point shooter if he's going to play alongside Lonzo Ball. But in the short term, this tradeoff is fine; some young guys improve in increments. Ingram honing one skill now doesn't mean he'll neglect the other one forever.
He is becoming a menacing defender away from the ball. When he spreads those arms, he covers a lot of territory. He's almost in two places at once. He can crash into the paint, and snap back in time to interfere with a pass to his man.
He dissuades some opponents from throwing that pass in the first place, and every half-second of hesitation is a mini-win for the defense.
The Lakers ranking a shocking fourth in points allowed per possession isn't a total fluke. Total flukes don't typically last a quarter of the season. Two of their core healthy big men -- Randle and Kyle Kuzma -- are quick enough to switch onto ball-handlers, and their guards have embraced the dirty work of jostling with big men on the flip side of those switches. Josh Hart is sturdy. Ball is a pest. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Ingram are engaged help-and-recover guys on the wing. Everyone has bought in.
I'd still bet on the Lakers falling back toward 10th, and maybe a hair worse. Opponents have hit just 31 percent of their 3s, the lowest figure in the league, and they've been ice cold on wide-open triples. Teams are even bonking around the rim, and the Lakers allow a ton of shots there. (Only Milwaukee has yielded more as a percentage of all attempts, per Cleaning The Glass.) This stuff will revert.
Still: Hanging around the top 10 in defense would be a huge, unexpected success.
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999
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PayasoLoco wrote: | | 999 wrote: | When boogie was on the table I wish Mitch did include Ingram in the trade piece instead of turning it down. I just don’t see any star power in Ingram
Could you imagine if we did make that trade
Luol Ingram and Randle for boogie
Dlo and slozgov for kuzma and Brook.
Cousins
Kuzma
Lonzo
All on the same floor. That would be fire |
so you knew back then we were gonna draft a stud in Kuzma last February were there was a hug chance we wouldnt even have our lottery pick let alone made a trade to get houstons pick |
We would have traded for kuzma if we had boogie or not. The only difference here is that we would have had both deng and sloz contracts off the books |
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trablos
Star Player
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Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| 999 wrote: | When boogie was on the table I wish Mitch did include Ingram in the trade piece instead of turning it down. I just don’t see any star power in Ingram
Could you imagine if we did make that trade
Luol Ingram and Randle for boogie
Dlo and slozgov for kuzma and Brook.
Cousins
Kuzma
Lonzo
All on the same floor. That would be fire |
Wait...what? Brook and Cousins on the same team? |
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