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OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Andre2K
Franchise Player

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:56 pm Post subject:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion: Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma since that's what benefits the team _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season Pg Lonzo Sg Kawhi Sf Ingram Pf Lebron C Dedmon Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc

KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number

Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:58 pm Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Can we get a top 6 pick in return? Same inquiry for Lonzo..... this draft is good, just, I need at least one star drafted in these dark times

i know I am sparking the next bad convo rabbit hole in this thread here

MJST
Retired Number

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26389

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:00 pm Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk

Andre2K
Franchise Player

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:07 pm Post subject:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season

Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon

Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc

Last edited by Andre2K on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

GoldenThroat
Moderator

Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:08 pm Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

How about we keep all of them and have our best scorers take the most shots while our best players play the most minutes.

Andre2K
Franchise Player

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

How about we keep all of them and have our best scorers take the most shots while our best players play the most minutes.

not if the priority is developing our future stars, but no...lets put them down thats a better idea.
_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season

Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon

Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc

crucifixion
Starting Rotation

Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 909

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject:

There's still quite a few haters that are mad that other players were traded and are mad cuz they think the fans are giving more lienency to Ingram so they are using stats against Ingram like plus minus to show Ingram "sucks" yet when people pointed out the plus minus against players that were here before they said plus minus is not a true stat and is only used by people that don't know basketball. I think some of you copper larynx need to get over yourselves and accept what our situation is, which is Ingram is untouchable per management and has shown significant improvement to warrant such appreciation. So either believe in him as a Laker fan or quit the BS.

mookielala
Star Player

Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject:

Is +/- a good metric for a player's skill? I don't know. Ingram generally gets a lot of minutes, probably as many as anyone on the team, because we're shallow at SF and Luke feels he can trust him - so he puts BI in both when we're doing ok and when we aren't. I think all the starters must be doing worse than the second team in +/-, and then the rotations are different for each player. Ingram will be in at the beginning, when we've generally sucked and also at the end when we often lose it. As Lavar will tell you, Lonzo often isn't playing at the end. Neither is Nance or Lopez. I think that must have something to do with the per 100 numbers.

GoldenThroat
Moderator

Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

How about we keep all of them and have our best scorers take the most shots while our best players play the most minutes.

not if the priority is developing our future stars, but no...lets put them down thats a better idea.

Our young guys can develop into future stars just fine without playing 35mpg. Kobe somehow managed to turn out okay despite having a lesser role his first couple of years as guys who were better players in the short term got more minutes and shots.

This goes for Lonzo too, BTW.

manlisten
Star Player

Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject:

crucifixion wrote:

There's still quite a few haters that are mad that other players were traded and are mad cuz they think the fans are giving more lienency to Ingram so they are using stats against Ingram like plus minus to show Ingram "sucks" yet when people pointed out the plus minus against players that were here before they said plus minus is not a true stat and is only used by people that don't know basketball. I think some of you copper larynx need to get over yourselves and accept what our situation is, which is Ingram is untouchable per management and has shown significant improvement to warrant such appreciation. So either believe in him as a Laker fan or quit the BS.

Careful, it's against the rules for certain posters to make comments like this. You may or may not be one of them, depends on how they feel.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."

GoldenThroat
Moderator

Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject:

mookielala wrote:

Is +/- a good metric for a player's skill? I don't know.

Ingram generally gets a lot of minutes, probably as many as anyone on the team, because we're shallow at SF and Luke feels he can trust him - so he puts BI in both when we're doing ok and when we aren't. I think all the starters must be doing worse than the second team in +/-, and then the rotations are different for each player. Ingram will be in at the beginning, when we've generally sucked and also at the end when we often lose it. As Lavar will tell you, Lonzo often isn't playing at the end. Neither is Nance or Lopez. I think that must have something to do with the per 100 numbers.

It isn't just +/-. It's every single metric of that ilk. Pick whichever one that you'd like. Does it seem reasonable to you that all of them are just dead wrong about the guy?

And it's not like the tape tells a different story. You can make an argument that this experience hastens his development. For example, getting his shot-blocked a dozen times in two games in Philly & NY may have made a light bulb go on regarding making the simple pass when he drives to the basket. But that's a very different argument than one in which he's actually been good so far. He's been better, but that's a relative term.

KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number

Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:28 pm Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley

manlisten
Star Player

Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley

Not to mention all the games we'd win with Ingram off the court. No brainer.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."

KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number

Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject:

manlisten wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley

Not to mention all the games we'd win with Ingram off the court. No brainer.

facts
No but seriously I want Kuzma to get more shots

I like Ingram.. he's young and his upside is high, but he's far away and I'm addicted to draft prospects in the hope we get a sure fire star.. so yea

Andre2K
Franchise Player

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

How about we keep all of them and have our best scorers take the most shots while our best players play the most minutes.

not if the priority is developing our future stars, but no...lets put them down thats a better idea.

I know it does, I support it actually. I've probably the main person here that complains that Luke plays BI and Lonzo way too many minutes. However, I understand the method to the madness, the front office apparently don't care about what happens with the pick, they want to expedite the young guys development by giving them as many reps as possible, I don't have a problem with that as long as we hit on our free agency targets in the offseason.

I think the criticisms should be directed more at Luke tho, instead of the young guys, thats just how I feel about it.
_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season

Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon

Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc

Andre2K
Franchise Player

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject:

manlisten wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley

Not to mention all the games we'd win with Ingram off the court. No brainer.

We will win so much, we'd get tired of winning lol haha

_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season

Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon

Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc

tox
Franchise Player

Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject:

mookielala wrote:

There is no stat that measures "skill" -- Melo might be a very skilled offensive player but he is not even Top 100 in ORPM (or positive at that).

To your point, +/- is a bad stat because it unfairly penalizes starters and end-of-game players for playing against better players. That's exactly what RPM and RAPM account for. Now, they are not perfect at doing this, but they're supposed to calculate how much a given player contributes to winning independent of teammate quality or opponent quality. It's probably the only useful signal on defense; on offense, box scores capture enough info that OBPM isn't a bad stat either.

On the topic of Ingram, he is a bottom-10 offensive SF by RPM, he has low efficiency and mediocre assist-to-turnover numbers, and the team team is bad on offense when he is on the court.

The case is pretty clear there. That doesn't mean he's a bust or anything. It does mean he's not (close to) a good offensive player right now,

non-player zealot
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:47 pm Post subject:

crucifixion wrote:

I think some of you copper larynx need to get over yourselves and

Agreed with your post, but what is a copper larynx? Never heard that as a term. What does it mean to you?
_________________
GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX!

PHILosophize
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:52 pm Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:

crucifixion wrote:

I think some of you copper larynx need to get over yourselves and

Agreed with your post, but what is a copper larynx? Never heard that as a term. What does it mean to you?

Well obviously he's referring to this:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00205193

Duh!
_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way

SocalDevin
Star Player

Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:

crucifixion wrote:

I think some of you copper larynx need to get over yourselves and

Agreed with your post, but what is a copper larynx? Never heard that as a term. What does it mean to you?

I thought it was a play on Golden throat..

MJST
Retired Number

Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26389

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject:

manlisten wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley

Not to mention all the games we'd win with Ingram off the court. No brainer.

Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose?
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk

tox
Franchise Player

Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:

crucifixion wrote:

I think some of you copper larynx need to get over yourselves and

Agreed with your post, but what is a copper larynx? Never heard that as a term. What does it mean to you?

golden -> copper
throat -> larynx

PHILosophize
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject:

crucifixion wrote:

that first "sentence"

_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way

Last edited by PHILosophize on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

manlisten
Star Player

Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject:

MJST wrote:

manlisten wrote:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

MJST wrote:

Andre2K wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:

Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around

Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma

since that's what benefits the team

Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose

And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.

And then see what happens

should be interesting

no more hypotheticals, start the the poll

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:

^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6?

Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley

Not to mention all the games we'd win with Ingram off the court. No brainer.

Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose?

Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."

PHILosophize
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject:

love this forum _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way

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