| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PHILosophize
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
|
 Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and I love TINY DOG 
_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mookielala
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GoldenThroat wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | Is +/- a good metric for a player's skill? I don't know.
Ingram generally gets a lot of minutes, probably as many as anyone on the team, because we're shallow at SF and Luke feels he can trust him - so he puts BI in both when we're doing ok and when we aren't. I think all the starters must be doing worse than the second team in +/-, and then the rotations are different for each player. Ingram will be in at the beginning, when we've generally sucked and also at the end when we often lose it. As Lavar will tell you, Lonzo often isn't playing at the end. Neither is Nance or Lopez. I think that must have something to do with the per 100 numbers. |
It isn't just +/-. It's every single metric of that ilk. Pick whichever one that you'd like. Does it seem reasonable to you that all of them are just dead wrong about the guy?
And it's not like the tape tells a different story. You can make an argument that this experience hastens his development. For example, getting his shot-blocked a dozen times in two games in Philly & NY may have made a light bulb go on regarding making the simple pass when he drives to the basket. But that's a very different argument than one in which he's actually been good so far. He's been better, but that's a relative term. |
Maybe if we had a better option at SF, I could see an argument for lessening his minutes. I don't know who we'd slot in there, maybe Hart, Brewer, or Kuzma?
But I think it's also good for us because, as you say, it hastens his development. He really can be something special. And he keeps improving. The hope is to have an experienced, confident, exceptional player in the next few years. It seems like the minutes are helping that happen.
Anyway, he's my favorite player we've had in a long time. So I admit I'm totally biased. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
h2omike
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2811
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Must be Clippers fans, rooting against Laker players...
Of course , when I bag on Deng, I'm a Clipper too... 😆 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| h2omike wrote: | Must be Clippers fans, rooting against Laker players...
Of course , when I bag on Deng, I'm a Clipper too... 😆 |
Who ?what when where? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andre2K
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:
Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around
Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma
since that's what benefits the team  |
Fairly certain if you made a poll asking if we could only start one which would they choose
And make Kuzma and Ingram the two choices.
And then see what happens  should be interesting  |
no more hypotheticals, start the the poll 
| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: |
Can we get a top 6 pick in return? Same inquiry for Lonzo..... this draft is good, just, I need at least one star drafted in these dark times
i know I am sparking the next bad convo rabbit hole in this thread here |
^ okay well lets trade Ingram with Deng for cap space and #6 pick, I guarantee we get a star. Any chance Luka Doncic falls to number 6? |
Getting rid of Deng and getting a top 6 pick.. yea I'm doing that. Probably end up with Trae Young or Bagley |
Not to mention all the games we'd win with Ingram off the court. No brainer. |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Do we get to switch you for Dave20 as well if not, then no deal
_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andre2K wrote: | I didn't read the whole thread but conclusion:
Lets trade Brandon Ingram and build the team around
Clarkson, Randle, & Kuzma
since that's what benefits the team |
The plan isn’t to build around any of them.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RoyalPurple8
Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 439
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think Ingram's got a little Kobe in him. Mindset wise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's gonna be pretty hilarious next season or even sooner when people are singing his praises and acting like it's a sudden development when really it's all this 'bad basketball' that is preparing him for the next level. Basically all the pro Ingram folks are trying to get at is that he's on his way. No need for the hyper analysis and I watch basketball therefore I'm right takes.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RoyalPurple8
Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 439
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eindhoven wrote: | | RoyalPurple8 wrote: | | Remember when people were dogging for Magic for saying BI will be a 20+per game scorer? I believe he will eclipse this next season. |
He said BI would score 20ppg this season. |
Regardless if he gets to 20ppg. this season. People were whining like..."Magic is going ruin him." He does not seem affected. It seems it was not all that bad a motivational technique is all Im trying to point out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma?
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| manlisten wrote: | | It's gonna be pretty hilarious next season or even sooner when people are singing his praises and acting like it's a sudden development when really it's all this 'bad basketball' that is preparing him for the next level. Basically all the pro Ingram folks are trying to get at is that he's on his way. No need for the hyper analysis and I watch basketball therefore I'm right takes. |
Hey I sure hope so. The Cavs game was a step in the right direction. But there is very real reason to dislike the way he's played offensively this season, and the prospect of him improving in the future doesn't mean we should suddenly discount it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense? At least by the numbers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense? At least by the numbers |
I think via the percentiles both of them are below average defensively except on defending spot ups where they're both in the 70s.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bigkobe81
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 163
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense. Better passer/playmaker/decision maker.
This thread is is hilarious |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Don't know if you realized this but I'm agreeing with you. Ingram is trash.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Player A) 18.2/6.7/1.5 2 TOs 49% Field Goal 39% from Three 33.8 MPG
Player B) 18.0/6.5/3.8 3.2 TOs 41% Field Goal 38% from three 36.7 MPG
Player C) 16.3/6.1/2.9 2 TOs 48% Field Goal 33% from Three 34.8 MPG
Which player do you pick? A, B or C, without peeking.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | It's gonna be pretty hilarious next season or even sooner when people are singing his praises and acting like it's a sudden development when really it's all this 'bad basketball' that is preparing him for the next level. Basically all the pro Ingram folks are trying to get at is that he's on his way. No need for the hyper analysis and I watch basketball therefore I'm right takes. |
Hey I sure hope so. The Cavs game was a step in the right direction. But there is very real reason to dislike the way he's played offensively this season, and the prospect of him improving in the future doesn't mean we should suddenly discount it. |
For me that reason is because he doesn't know what the hell he's doing yet, like most sophomores.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andre2K
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bigkobe81 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense. Better passer/playmaker/decision maker.
This thread is is hilarious |
 while also being 2 years and 2 months younger
_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andre2K wrote: | | bigkobe81 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense. Better passer/playmaker/decision maker.
This thread is is hilarious |
while also being 2 years and 2 months younger |
Then Josh Hart should start outperforming rookie D'lo any day now
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RoyalPurple8
Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 439
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| He'll get to between 18-20 ppg by the end of the season. Probably like 36,37,38 minutes. His main knock is his ft's. Jumpshot does have to get better. In the meantime though he can get to the rim, especially on set plays. He can shoot the 3 a little, thats nice he is 20. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andre2K
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | bigkobe81 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense. Better passer/playmaker/decision maker.
This thread is is hilarious |
while also being 2 years and 2 months younger |
Then Josh Hart should start outperforming rookie D'lo any day now |
your analogy doesn't make any sense but carry on. Has anyone answered your quiz yet?
_________________
My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RoyalPurple8
Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 439
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | bigkobe81 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense. Better passer/playmaker/decision maker.
This thread is is hilarious |
while also being 2 years and 2 months younger |
Then Josh Hart should start outperforming rookie D'lo any day now |
Does anybody see a Danny Green type of player in Hart one day. I see alot of potential in him? He seems like a hard worker? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RoyalPurple8 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | bigkobe81 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Switch Ingram with Kuzma. What do we lose? |
Nothing. Ingram is not good at basketball. Except when he is good, then I'll act like I never said he wasn't. |
Better question is, what does Ingram do exponentially better than Kuzma? |
Defense. Better passer/playmaker/decision maker.
This thread is is hilarious |
while also being 2 years and 2 months younger |
Then Josh Hart should start outperforming rookie D'lo any day now |
Does anybody see a Danny Green type of player in Hart one day. I see alot of potential in him? He seems like a hard worker? |
Definitely. potential better finisher around the basket though which is a good thing.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3189
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | Player A) 18.2/6.7/1.5 2 TOs 49% Field Goal 39% from Three 33.8 MPG
Player B) 18.0/6.5/3.8 3.2 TOs 41% Field Goal 38% from three 36.7 MPG
Player C) 16.3/6.1/2.9 2 TOs 48% Field Goal 33% from Three 34.8 MPG
Which player do you pick? A, B or C, without peeking. |
Whichever one isn't Ingram because he sucks and will never be any good
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andre2K wrote: | | Quote: |
while also being 2 years and 2 months younger |
| Quote: | | Then Josh Hart should start outperforming rookie D'lo any day now |
your analogy doesn't make any sense but carry on. Has anyone answered your quiz yet? |
here's a better one.
If it's THAT simple
Then why didn't rookie Buddy Hield outperform 2nd year Russell?
Because the excuse was that it is more relevant what Ingram's doing because Kuzma stayed in college longer and thus came into the league older.
So my retort to you was, if it's that simple, why didn't the touted Buddy Hield who stayed in college all 4 years AND was a top pick in the draft... not outperform 2nd year Russell?
Maybe it's not as easy as 'just' staying in college longer. What Kuzma's doing is impressive for a rookie no matter how you slice it.
It's a very easy reply.
Kuzma is better than Ingram at 22, but Ingram's just 20.
So theoretically Ingram at 22 will be better than Kuzma at 22.
But in the same vein, what if Kuzma progressed of equal amount in that same span of time?
As they'll always be 2 years apart, they'll both progress as players.
The question becomes will Ingram make such a monumental leap in his game in the next two seasons that will eclipse the leaps that Kuzma is going to make in that same span of time?
That answer can't be known. Because for all we know Ingram could be a 23 ppg scorer at 22, but Kuzma may be a 25 ppg scorer at 24. ( a great problem to have)
So we'll have to wait and see. But the entire "he's 2 years younger" really doesn't mean much of anything when Kuzma is still a rookie.
Just my two cents on that kind of statement.
I wouldn't be waiting for Brandon Knight to get better than Damian Lillard either
Hope you got the analogy now.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
