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mookielala Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Posts: 3026
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: |
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TheBlackMamba wrote: | 55 wrote: |
What makes this make some sense, is that BI is exactly the type of player/person the Spurs like. He fits the Pop mold. Doesn't showboat, puts his head down and does his work. |
On the flip side, that coaching staff would also be perfect for him. Pop would get on him for every little mistake, which would be great for him in the long run. And BI + Chip Engelland = |
Kawhi is one of very few players off the top of my head I'd consider trading BI for, but Spurs would not give up Kawhi (nor would other teams give up any of those other players). That article is just a fan site trying to get traffic. |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I still think ultimately, BI will be a high level support player more than a #1 option alpha lead player. That's fine with me (unless we can't find any true #1 options, though I think Kuz may be a better #1 option amongst our current core group if we were unable to upgrade via FA). |
I might be the only one here but I don't think Kuz can be a # 1 option. He doesn't have the handling skill or the physicality to create for himself. His playing style is like a bigger version of Klay Thompson who hasn't been the # 1 option for his team. Ball will never be the top scoring option for a good team. The only one who has the potential to be our go-to-guy is Ingram. |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Vanquish wrote: |
Provided Kawhi is healthy, I would do that trade everyday and twice on sunday! |
I will not do that trade. If Kawhi is healthy, there is no reason why Spurs will trade him. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
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lakersfan8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I still think ultimately, BI will be a high level support player more than a #1 option alpha lead player. That's fine with me (unless we can't find any true #1 options, though I think Kuz may be a better #1 option amongst our current core group if we were unable to upgrade via FA). |
I might be the only one here but I don't think Kuz can be a # 1 option. He doesn't have the handling skill or the physicality to create for himself. His playing style is like a bigger version of Klay Thompson who hasn't been the # 1 option for his team. Ball will never be the top scoring option for a good team. The only one who has the potential to be our go-to-guy is Ingram. |
Agree about Kuz's ballhandling, but he can score in so many different ways right now than BI. 3s, post ups, mid range, off the dribble, etc. He has a better toolset scoring wise than BI. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:14 am Post subject: |
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jjangx27 wrote: | Vanquish wrote: |
Provided Kawhi is healthy, I would do that trade everyday and twice on sunday! |
Yea that's not even up for debate |
Kawhi is making $17M. Getting Kawhi would make a legit Big 3 of Kawhi/PG/LeBron possible. Possibly even while stretching Deng. Hard to argue with that. |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | lakersfan8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I still think ultimately, BI will be a high level support player more than a #1 option alpha lead player. That's fine with me (unless we can't find any true #1 options, though I think Kuz may be a better #1 option amongst our current core group if we were unable to upgrade via FA). |
I might be the only one here but I don't think Kuz can be a # 1 option. He doesn't have the handling skill or the physicality to create for himself. His playing style is like a bigger version of Klay Thompson who hasn't been the # 1 option for his team. Ball will never be the top scoring option for a good team. The only one who has the potential to be our go-to-guy is Ingram. |
Agree about Kuz's ballhandling, but he can score in so many different ways right now than BI. 3s, post ups, mid range, off the dribble, etc. He has a better toolset scoring wise than BI. |
Yes, for now. The lack of isolation play will become a major problem if we don't have that go-to-guy on our team. He can easily be a 20+ ppg scorer if playing alongside a dominant player. If he is the # 1 option, he will be facing Draymond Green or Leonard those kinds of players and I am very skeptical about how he would perform. |
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RusselDoeee01 Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 1072
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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There isnt a single player in the league I would trade Ingram for.
He is going to be a SUPERSTAR..
Does he struggle at times? Yes.. But the kid is 20 years old. Some of the shots he makes are shots 90% of the league cant make. His length and size is going to be a problem down the road for all opposing teams. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24995
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: |
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RusselDoeee01 wrote: | There isnt a single player in the league I would trade Ingram for.
He is going to be a SUPERSTAR..
Does he struggle at times? Yes.. But the kid is 20 years old. Some of the shots he makes are shots 90% of the league cant make. His length and size is going to be a problem down the road for all opposing teams. |
I like the enthusiasm but do you foresee BI being better than Kawhi? |
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RusselDoeee01 Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 1072
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | There isnt a single player in the league I would trade Ingram for.
He is going to be a SUPERSTAR..
Does he struggle at times? Yes.. But the kid is 20 years old. Some of the shots he makes are shots 90% of the league cant make. His length and size is going to be a problem down the road for all opposing teams. |
I like the enthusiasm but do you foresee BI being better than Kawhi? |
Given his age, and skillset already, I think he will be better than Kawhi.. Kawhi is already having injury issues and its hard to gauge just how good Kawhi is when he has been on such a good team his whole career. I think a 20 year old Kawhi would not have produced that well with this current lakers team.
In Basketball players tend to play better with better talent around them. Ingram hasn't had the most talent to his disposal in his young career.
Almost every game there is one move or shot where i just saw "wow." We saw a flash of greatness when he dropped 30 on durant earlier in the season.
With all that being said.. He must increase his confidence. Give him the swagger Clarkson and Randle have, and he would be averaging 20ppg easily.
I think this offseason is when we will really see just how much he can improve. |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Something Ingram needs to get over is his selfishness.
That's a constant with young players, they have their selfish moments. But BI should get reprimanded when he takes a bad shot or holds the ball and tries to iso it without moving it.
I know Magic wants to force BI into being "the guy" but not at the expense of what we're trying to do, especially if he's not ready for it. Which he isn't, yet.
Off ball Ingram is the best Ingram, when he starts breaking that he needs to be pulled to the side and told. |
Funny you never thought that with Randleeeeeee did it for two straight years and STILL has times where he does it. |
Randle still has issues passing to the open man on 2 on 1 fast breaks. It happened twice a few games ago. He'd rather take the charging foul. He's also given up on defense (as well as many others) during our big losing streak. I'm definitely nitpicking because he won plenty of games for us this year, but the "selfish" line could be applied to Randle too, but like with BI, both cases would be highly inappropriate.
BI needs to become the man at some point. And we need to find out if he can become that. I'm upset that he miss that 2 point jumper at the end of the Celtics game, but I would rather see him take that and miss, than have a player inconsequential to our future take that shot (ala KCP). If BI played for San Antonio or Boston I'm sure the narrative would be different on him. People are creaming over JBrown and I'm sure BI would contribute in a similar way. Pop would love to get BI on the Spurs I would imagine. They tried to get Stanley Freakin Johnson last season on the cheap so they could mold him the "Spur's Way" with their shooting guru. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Something Ingram needs to get over is his selfishness.
That's a constant with young players, they have their selfish moments. But BI should get reprimanded when he takes a bad shot or holds the ball and tries to iso it without moving it.
I know Magic wants to force BI into being "the guy" but not at the expense of what we're trying to do, especially if he's not ready for it. Which he isn't, yet.
Off ball Ingram is the best Ingram, when he starts breaking that he needs to be pulled to the side and told. |
Funny you never thought that with Randleeeeeee did it for two straight years and STILL has times where he does it. |
Randle still has issues passing to the open man on 2 on 1 fast breaks. It happened twice a few games ago. He'd rather take the charging foul. He's also given up on defense (as well as many others) during our big losing streak. I'm definitely nitpicking because he won plenty of games for us this year, but the "selfish" line could be applied to Randle too, but like with BI, both cases would be highly inappropriate.
BI needs to become the man at some point. And we need to find out if he can become that. I'm upset that he miss that 2 point jumper at the end of the Celtics game, but I would rather see him take that and miss, than have a player inconsequential to our future take that shot (ala KCP). If BI played for San Antonio or Boston I'm sure the narrative would be different on him. People are creaming over JBrown and I'm sure BI would contribute in a similar way. Pop would love to get BI on the Spurs I would imagine. They tried to get Stanley Freakin Johnson last season on the cheap so they could mold him the "Spur's Way" with their shooting guru. |
Bill Simmons isn't people. I see appreciation of Jaylen Brown in the context of how Stevens has gotten the kid's game under control moreso than excitement over Brown the player.
Which brings up the same questions about BI's development on the Lakers: is it better to force a young player to be "the man" early on? If a young player is under team control for up to nine years, does he need to become the man by seasons two or three? Should he be expected to? Does it actually lower a team's ceiling when constructing a roster? Should the "Spurs way" of development be emulated? |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Something Ingram needs to get over is his selfishness.
That's a constant with young players, they have their selfish moments. But BI should get reprimanded when he takes a bad shot or holds the ball and tries to iso it without moving it.
I know Magic wants to force BI into being "the guy" but not at the expense of what we're trying to do, especially if he's not ready for it. Which he isn't, yet.
Off ball Ingram is the best Ingram, when he starts breaking that he needs to be pulled to the side and told. |
Funny you never thought that with Randleeeeeee did it for two straight years and STILL has times where he does it. |
Randle still has issues passing to the open man on 2 on 1 fast breaks. It happened twice a few games ago. He'd rather take the charging foul. He's also given up on defense (as well as many others) during our big losing streak. I'm definitely nitpicking because he won plenty of games for us this year, but the "selfish" line could be applied to Randle too, but like with BI, both cases would be highly inappropriate.
BI needs to become the man at some point. And we need to find out if he can become that. I'm upset that he miss that 2 point jumper at the end of the Celtics game, but I would rather see him take that and miss, than have a player inconsequential to our future take that shot (ala KCP). If BI played for San Antonio or Boston I'm sure the narrative would be different on him. People are creaming over JBrown and I'm sure BI would contribute in a similar way. Pop would love to get BI on the Spurs I would imagine. They tried to get Stanley Freakin Johnson last season on the cheap so they could mold him the "Spur's Way" with their shooting guru. |
Bill Simmons isn't people. I see appreciation of Jaylen Brown in the context of how Stevens has gotten the kid's game under control moreso than excitement over Brown the player.
Which brings up the same questions about BI's development on the Lakers: is it better to force a young player to be "the man" early on? If a young player is under team control for up to nine years, does he need to become the man by seasons two or three? Should he be expected to? Does it actually lower a team's ceiling when constructing a roster? Should the "Spurs way" of development be emulated? |
Good question. If he has an open jump shot at the end of a game, would you rather have him pass the ball out? That's basically my question. We need players like Kuzma, Ingram, Ball, etc to step up and make take those open shots. Miss or make. Unfortunately it was a horrible brick. Why were we all mad when LouWill got the call down the stretch over DLO last season? That's because we wanted our young guys to gain that experience. Randle is never scared of taking a late game shot, granted they are usually 8 feet closer. All the way back to his first Summer League, when JC tipped in the Randle miss in the sudden death OT win. I didn't want to see Scrub McScrubbins take that shot.
I also wonder if Kobe shot those three air balls vs Utah in today's Internet and social media age. How badly would we have skewered him? |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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RusselDoeee01 wrote: | governator wrote: | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | There isnt a single player in the league I would trade Ingram for.
He is going to be a SUPERSTAR..
Does he struggle at times? Yes.. But the kid is 20 years old. Some of the shots he makes are shots 90% of the league cant make. His length and size is going to be a problem down the road for all opposing teams. |
I like the enthusiasm but do you foresee BI being better than Kawhi? |
Given his age, and skillset already, I think he will be better than Kawhi.. Kawhi is already having injury issues and its hard to gauge just how good Kawhi is when he has been on such a good team his whole career. I think a 20 year old Kawhi would not have produced that well with this current lakers team.
In Basketball players tend to play better with better talent around them. Ingram hasn't had the most talent to his disposal in his young career.
Almost every game there is one move or shot where i just saw "wow." We saw a flash of greatness when he dropped 30 on durant earlier in the season.
With all that being said.. He must increase his confidence. Give him the swagger Clarkson and Randle have, and he would be averaging 20ppg easily.
I think this offseason is when we will really see just how much he can improve. |
it's impossible to say definitively, but hard to down a top 5 guy today...
assuming a deal like that would be plausible, which it would never be as SA has no reason to trade Kwahi, you have to do it. LeBron would be drolling over the idea of coming to LA as would PG. Kwahi is still young enough to play dominant for 8 more years and we'd still have Kuzma and Lonzo. So the answer is easy yes but SA would never ever even remotely consider that deal. |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I love BI and thinks he's going to be good but there is no way I don't instantly trade him for the best two way player in the game. Spurs wouldn't though. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Wow.
BI, Zubac and Corey for KL?
That's such a tough one. For today, you say yes!
But there's that gut feeling that BI and Zubac in a Spurs system would kill in the future.
Let's do it! |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I still think ultimately, BI will be a high level support player more than a #1 option alpha lead player. That's fine with me (unless we can't find any true #1 options, though I think Kuz may be a better #1 option amongst our current core group if we were unable to upgrade via FA). |
Care to elaborate on why you think he's more of a support player than a #1 when he's improved leaps and bounds in one season. 20 years old. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I still think ultimately, BI will be a high level support player more than a #1 option alpha lead player. That's fine with me (unless we can't find any true #1 options, though I think Kuz may be a better #1 option amongst our current core group if we were unable to upgrade via FA). |
Care to elaborate on why you think he's more of a support player than a #1 when he's improved leaps and bounds in one season. 20 years old. |
He has, but I don't see him as #1 option. That's my elaboration. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Wow.
BI, Zubac and Corey for KL?
That's such a tough one. For today, you say yes!
But there's that gut feeling that BI and Zubac in a Spurs system would kill in the future.
Let's do it! |
Zu hasn't shown much has he ? |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39322
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Ingram is ranked 78th best SF at -2.86 |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22244 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Wow.
BI, Zubac and Corey for KL?
That's such a tough one. For today, you say yes!
But there's that gut feeling that BI and Zubac in a Spurs system would kill in the future.
Let's do it! |
I'd easily pull the trigger on that one RIGHT NOW.
Just add PG13 next year and let's go. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Wow.
BI, Zubac and Corey for KL?
That's such a tough one. For today, you say yes!
But there's that gut feeling that BI and Zubac in a Spurs system would kill in the future.
Let's do it! |
BI would be a better Spur than Laker, if that makes sense. |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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If the Spurs traded Kawhi, it would mean that quad injury is something chronic or not understood. You don't trade Ingram for that unknown quantity. |
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Sina Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015 Posts: 1793
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Won’t trade Ingram. |
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12 Star Player
Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Posts: 8617
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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@ people who wanna trade BI |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26078
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Something Ingram needs to get over is his selfishness.
That's a constant with young players, they have their selfish moments. But BI should get reprimanded when he takes a bad shot or holds the ball and tries to iso it without moving it.
I know Magic wants to force BI into being "the guy" but not at the expense of what we're trying to do, especially if he's not ready for it. Which he isn't, yet.
Off ball Ingram is the best Ingram, when he starts breaking that he needs to be pulled to the side and told. |
Funny you never thought that with Randleeeeeee did it for two straight years and STILL has times where he does it. |
Actually I did and have, I just didn't create a hyperbole like other posters did when they wanted to act like that's all he was. I've called out Clarkson, Randle, Kuzma and Ingram out for selfish moments.
I don't however watch Randle survey the floor and when there's no off ball movement have to iso and then go type out "What a selfish player."
So if Ingram did that, I wouldn't say anything. He didn't however.
Also if you divert your eyes just a sentence lower
Quote: | That's a constant with young players, they have their selfish moments.
I know Magic wants to force BI into being "the guy" but not at the expense of what we're trying to do, especially if he's not ready for it. Which he isn't, yet.
Off ball Ingram is the best Ingram, when he starts breaking that he needs to be pulled to the side and told. |
Now, if you can, try to disagree with the actual point. But you won't be able to. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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