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Luminous8
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 Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | The league also isn't very good at defending it either though. So if Brandon we're to become deadly efficient at this play(not saying he will) but IF that becomes bread and butter, he's going to be a bad dude to stop. |
The league seems pretty good at defending it considering how the vast majority of players shoot well under 40% from there and it only counts for 2 points. |
No, guys just aren't working the mid range like they once did. Simple as that. Just go watch JC play and kill teams from the mid range because they simply don't guard it well. Same with DeRozan. Guys who score from mid-range are a dinosaurs. Just so happens that with that, come lower league wide percentages because players are going away from it all together in their development. Players are shooting higher percentages from deep than they did in the past as well, doesn't mean guys suddenly stopped knowing how to defend the shot. |
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mookielala
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| As long as we're discussing the abstract BI wishlist, I would love to see him incorporate some hooks like Kuz. I don't think I've seen BI give it a try. Maybe he can get some tips from Cap. For some reason, I think they would get along. |
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RhodyRay
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | The league also isn't very good at defending it either though. So if Brandon we're to become deadly efficient at this play(not saying he will) but IF that becomes bread and butter, he's going to be a bad dude to stop. |
The league seems pretty good at defending it considering how the vast majority of players shoot well under 40% from there and it only counts for 2 points. |
Or perhaps it is because more players are focused on shooting threes because they count more? The mid-range game has become a lost art. I still believe in it. I think BI should focus on his mid-range game. Make that his bread and butter now and expand it out to the three. He is pretty good at driving to the basket. He should next work on finding open spaces in his mid-range game and eventually working strong on his three-game. He could eventually be unstoppable. Three, mid-range, and taking it to the rack at will (and FT shooting too).
I believe one should always improve on what you do best first and work on your weaknesses later. Some believe the opposite. There is no right or wrong--just preference. Just my old-school opinion.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think suddenly players have gotten worse at hitting midrange shots in the manner of a few seasons. Reminds me of the argument that bigs can't dominate the league just because there are no more dominant bigs. The midrange shot is just an inefficient shot, even if it can be hit relatively well by some. It's fine for BI to make 3s and layups his bread and butter, while also learning the midrange game as a 3rd option just to keep defenses honest.
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RhodyRay
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I don't think suddenly players have gotten worse at hitting midrange shots in the manner of a few seasons. Reminds me of the argument that bigs can't dominate the league just because there are no more dominant bigs. The midrange shot is just an inefficient shot, even if it can be hit relatively well by some. It's fine for BI to make 3s and layups his bread and butter, while also learning the midrange game as a 3rd option just to keep defenses honest. |
The problem is I think he is closer to excelling at the mid-range than he is at hitting treys. I think he should perfect the mid-range now because it will open up his drives to the basket now. I think he should work on his three-point game this offseason. Correct whatever is easiest to correct in order to always keep moving forward.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | The league also isn't very good at defending it either though. So if Brandon we're to become deadly efficient at this play(not saying he will) but IF that becomes bread and butter, he's going to be a bad dude to stop. |
The league seems pretty good at defending it considering how the vast majority of players shoot well under 40% from there and it only counts for 2 points. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but Jordan Clarkson is pretty elite at 3-10 and he's anything but a hyper efficient offensive player. |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | He should take less mid range shots. |
So I posted this to confirm a hypothesis and well thanks to you guys it was proven correct. Not a single ounce of hatred thrown my way so I can confirm for a fact that MJST is full of (bleep). |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | The league also isn't very good at defending it either though. So if Brandon we're to become deadly efficient at this play(not saying he will) but IF that becomes bread and butter, he's going to be a bad dude to stop. |
The league seems pretty good at defending it considering how the vast majority of players shoot well under 40% from there and it only counts for 2 points. |
No, guys just aren't working the mid range like they once did. Simple as that. Just go watch JC play and kill teams from the mid range because they simply don't guard it well. Same with DeRozan. Guys who score from mid-range are a dinosaurs. Just so happens that with that, come lower league wide percentages because players are going away from it all together in their development. Players are shooting higher percentages from deep than they did in the past as well, doesn't mean guys suddenly stopped knowing how to defend the shot. |
I mean Clarkson was really good at that shot and it was still, like, a ~0.85 ppp thing for him (fouls and turnovers aren't included so it could be higher or lower than that). For sure the threat of that helps you get to the basket which is more efficient, but the midrange should be a necessary evil and means to an end (getting to the basket more). It shouldn't be your goal to get a midrange shot. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be his primary weapon.. I don't even think the coaching staff wants it to be.
With that being said he should be able to knock down shots from midrange for obvious reasons.
I'm not sure I understand what's being debated. Nothing wrong with shoring up deficiencies and plugging holes in ones game. Especially with a raw prospect. Doing so will only make him a more well rounded player in the long run.
Last edited by SocalDevin on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| RhodyRay wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I don't think suddenly players have gotten worse at hitting midrange shots in the manner of a few seasons. Reminds me of the argument that bigs can't dominate the league just because there are no more dominant bigs. The midrange shot is just an inefficient shot, even if it can be hit relatively well by some. It's fine for BI to make 3s and layups his bread and butter, while also learning the midrange game as a 3rd option just to keep defenses honest. |
The problem is I think he is closer to excelling at the mid-range than he is at hitting treys. I think he should perfect the mid-range now because it will open up his drives to the basket now. I think he should work on his three-point game this offseason. Correct whatever is easiest to correct in order to always keep moving forward. |
He isn't though.
3-10 Feet: 21.0 eFG%
10-16 Feet: 34.7 eFG%
16 Feet to 3PT: 39.6 eFG%
3-Pointers: 57.0 eFG%
It's not even close. The vast majority of teams will almost certainly let him (and almost every other player) take that shot for the rest of his career, so it's not going to open up much.
Last edited by GoldenThroat on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | The league also isn't very good at defending it either though. So if Brandon we're to become deadly efficient at this play(not saying he will) but IF that becomes bread and butter, he's going to be a bad dude to stop. |
The league seems pretty good at defending it considering how the vast majority of players shoot well under 40% from there and it only counts for 2 points. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but Jordan Clarkson is pretty elite at 3-10 and he's anything but a hyper efficient offensive player. |
Clarkson's at 42.6% from 3-10, which is really good from that range, and a lot worse than the PPP that the worse offense in the NBA gets on their average play. DeRozan too. The idea that it's some under-exploited part of the court is silly. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be his primary weapon.. I don't even think the coaching staff wants it to be.
With that being said he should be able to knock down shots from midrange for obvious reasons.
I'm not sure I understand what's being debated. Nothing wrong with shoring up deficiencies and plugging wholes in ones game. Especially with a raw prospect. Doing so will only make him a more well rounded player in the long run. |
Lol I am . I want him to use his elite length and his skills to just destroy and pick teams apart with his midrange from posting up, pull ups, fadeaways, spin move, etc. He’s not extremely athletic nor extremely quick to just drive and shoot 3 ball and be an elite player. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I don't think suddenly players have gotten worse at hitting midrange shots in the manner of a few seasons. Reminds me of the argument that bigs can't dominate the league just because there are no more dominant bigs. The midrange shot is just an inefficient shot, even if it can be hit relatively well by some. It's fine for BI to make 3s and layups his bread and butter, while also learning the midrange game as a 3rd option just to keep defenses honest. |
The problem is I think he is closer to excelling at the mid-range than he is at hitting treys. I think he should perfect the mid-range now because it will open up his drives to the basket now. I think he should work on his three-point game this offseason. Correct whatever is easiest to correct in order to always keep moving forward. |
He isn't though.
3-10 Feet: 21.0 eFG%
10-16 Feet: 34.7 eFG%
16 Feet to 3PT: 39.6 eFG%
3-Pointers: 57.0 eFG%
It's not even close. The vast majority of teams will almost certainly let him (and almost every other player) take that shot for the rest of his career, so it's not going to open up much. |
So based on his 3 ball last year, teams should not be even paying attention to his 3 ball at all this season? Is that the reason why it went up this year or he is just working hard on part of his game. Lol you only see what the numbers tell you. Of course I ain’t going to argue with the facts but some people has work ethic. You should pay attention now because you are getting a closer look. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be his primary weapon.. I don't even think the coaching staff wants it to be.
With that being said he should be able to knock down shots from midrange for obvious reasons.
I'm not sure I understand what's being debated. Nothing wrong with shoring up deficiencies and plugging wholes in ones game. Especially with a raw prospect. Doing so will only make him a more well rounded player in the long run. |
Lol I am . I want him to use his elite length and his skills to just destroy and pick teams apart with his midrange from posting up, pull ups, fadeaways, spin move, etc. He’s not extremely athletic nor extremely quick to just drive and shoot 3 ball and be an elite player. |
How many guys are extremely athletic? The narrative about his lack of athleticism should have been dead a long time ago, it simply isn't true. He's also demonstrated that he's just as quick as any other 3 in the league. You're basing your opinion that he should center his game around a low percentage shot based on ideas that don't line up with reality. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | It would serve Ingram very well to actually make good on his "working with Kobe" statement this off-season actually.
Working on his footwork with Kobe would do wonders for his game and is one of the weaknesses in it. |
I love how you always seem to know what these guys do in the off-season. Not to mention it was never Ingram who said he was going to work with Kobe in the offseason, it was Luke who said he would like to get Ingram and Kobe together. Do you realize how hard it probably is for Kobe to find the time to get with Brandon. After year one it probably was better suited for Brandon to work on his game individually on all the different things instead of spending one week or one afternoon with Kobe hearing about how to study video etc etc which Kobe already did for him during last All-Star break. Because that's what usually happens when guys go and work with Kobe, he doesn't work on their actual games with them he works on teaching them how to study video and how to work on their games on their own he doesn't actually get out there showing them footwork and such |
Kobe's got time for Gordon Hayward but not Ingram? |
And Buddy Hield....
And Kyrie Irving...
And Russell Westbrook...
| Luminous8 wrote: | he doesn't work on their actual games
he doesn't actually get out there showing them footwork and such |
Russell Westbrook:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvucjPnWcAAQf69.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvujriEVMAIeMr9.jpg
| Quote: | Buddy Hield says Kobe had him repeat a very specific move 100 times in their workout
“During our two-hour workout, we never left one half of the court.
“That said a lot to me about how Kobe approaches the game. It’s not all over the place, it’s very methodical.”
“Kobe was having me copy specific moves he was doing, and then repeating them over and over until I got bored of doing them. It wasn’t like one dribble to the elbow for a jumper, it was full sequences — moves that you might not even attempt once a game.
“One move started in the high post. Kobe pump-faked at the free throw line and reverse-pivoted into the lane for a floater.
“He made me do that one move maybe 100 times in a row while he watched.”
“I know people like to say that basketball is all about footwork, but if our workout was anything like what he did during his career, Kobe took it to a whole other level. Actually, if that’s how he worked out during his career, Kobe treated footwork kind of like a religion … I think footwork was his cheat code.”
- Buddy Hield |
Whoops...
And with that.. there goes that "Kobe doesn't have time" theory as well.  oh well
Then again Kobe already put that theory to rest
“Guys call me all the time, even guys that are still playing in the playoffs. They reach out to me and ask for some advice on certain things or ask me to take a look at some things here and there. I’m always around. So if he wants to come (down) and work out, he has my cell obviously. I’m sure he’ll reach out at some point and come (down) to O.C. and we’ll get a workout in. It’s no problem.” - Kobe Bryant
heck even Stanley Johnson as a rookie worked with Kobe!!
| Quote: | Stanley Johnson called training with Kobe Bryant the “hardest workouts of my life”
“He’s going to be hard on me for sure,” Johnson said of Bryant. “He didn’t give me no excuses because I’m a rookie. He’s going to expect a lot out of me as a rookie. I get to compete with him the days he practices. I know I’m going to get a great leader out of him and he’s going to expect me to do well because he wants to win since it’s his last year. He wants to win and so do I.”
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According to Sam Mitchell, Kobe had offered to work with both Wiggins and LaVine as well during the summer
Kobe offered to Sam Mitchell that they send Wiggins and LaVine down to LA during the summer to come work with him.
So yeah......
Kobe's there to be utilized. He has even said so many a time. So, If he isn't utilized, it's not cause he don't have time.
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Last edited by MJST on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Texas_Pete
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| I would love to see Zo, Kuz, and BI work with Kobe this summer. They'd be unwise not to. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Texas_Pete wrote: | | I would love to see Zo, Kuz, and BI work with Kobe this summer. They'd be unwise not to. |
Agreed 100%
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be his primary weapon.. I don't even think the coaching staff wants it to be.
With that being said he should be able to knock down shots from midrange for obvious reasons.
I'm not sure I understand what's being debated. Nothing wrong with shoring up deficiencies and plugging wholes in ones game. Especially with a raw prospect. Doing so will only make him a more well rounded player in the long run. |
Lol I am . I want him to use his elite length and his skills to just destroy and pick teams apart with his midrange from posting up, pull ups, fadeaways, spin move, etc. He’s not extremely athletic nor extremely quick to just drive and shoot 3 ball and be an elite player. |
How many guys are extremely athletic? The narrative about his lack of athleticism should have been dead a long time ago, it simply isn't true. He's also demonstrated that he's just as quick as any other 3 in the league. You're basing your opinion that he should center his game around a low percentage shot based on ideas that don't line up with reality. |
He has above average athleticism and above average quickness especially for his size. My opinion is based on what he can do in the future, not what he can do now. Yeah I understand that low percentage shot but he has elite length and skills to make it money ball. I just don’t see him becoming elite with 3 ball and dribble drive. He could probably be like a rich man Tayshaun Prince which is still quite good but in order for him to be elite, he need to master that midrange. |
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Texas_Pete wrote: | | I would love to see Zo, Kuz, and BI work with Kobe this summer. They'd be unwise not to. |
Agreed 100% |
I have no doubt Kuzma will work with Kobe. Kid already asked to have and had a dinner with him.
Ingram would look like a far advanced player with some Kobe time.
Lonzo- I just want him to learn hard work from Kobe.
Camp Kobe 2018 |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:41 am Post subject: |
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BI ranked #4 on Bleacher Report's top 10 young rising players. Lonzo #10, Kuz not in it. 
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Texas_Pete wrote: | | I would love to see Zo, Kuz, and BI work with Kobe this summer. They'd be unwise not to. |
Agreed 100% |
I have no doubt Kuzma will work with Kobe. Kid already asked to have and had a dinner with him.
Ingram would look like a far advanced player with some Kobe time.
Lonzo- I just want him to learn hard work from Kobe.
Camp Kobe 2018 |
Y’all really overrate what an old retired Kobe is willing and able to do for these young guys. He was an all time great but a few workouts with this old washed up Kobe won’t do much for the guys. |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BI ranked #4 on Bleacher Report's top 10 young rising players. Lonzo #10, Kuz not in it. |
maybe under 21 list? |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Texas_Pete wrote: | | I would love to see Zo, Kuz, and BI work with Kobe this summer. They'd be unwise not to. |
Agreed 100% |
I have no doubt Kuzma will work with Kobe. Kid already asked to have and had a dinner with him.
Ingram would look like a far advanced player with some Kobe time.
Lonzo- I just want him to learn hard work from Kobe.
Camp Kobe 2018 |
Y’all really overrate what an old retired Kobe is willing and able to do for these young guys. He was an all time great but a few workouts with this old washed up Kobe won’t do much for the guys. |
Lol Ingram with a low post footwork and midrange fadeaways will be harder to contain. Just like Dirk with those one legged fadeaways. There’s nothing you can do except just hope he’ll miss. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Texas_Pete wrote: | | I would love to see Zo, Kuz, and BI work with Kobe this summer. They'd be unwise not to. |
Agreed 100% |
I have no doubt Kuzma will work with Kobe. Kid already asked to have and had a dinner with him.
Ingram would look like a far advanced player with some Kobe time.
Lonzo- I just want him to learn hard work from Kobe.
Camp Kobe 2018 |
Y’all really overrate what an old retired Kobe is willing and able to do for these young guys. He was an all time great but a few workouts with this old washed up Kobe won’t do much for the guys. |
Lol Ingram with a low post footwork and midrange fadeaways will be harder to contain. Just like Dirk with those one legged fadeaways. There’s nothing you can do except just hope he’ll miss. |
You know how long it takes to master footwork like that? I don’t see why Kobe would want to spend that much time helping Ingram. Best case he teaches Ingram how to practice it and hope he does it on his own. |
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Sina
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Posts: 1812
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Ingram is very special player. He may not as polished as Durant in scoring skills at the same age, but he is nothing short in term of defense or playmaking. |
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