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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, steph is shooting that long two (16 feet to the three line) at fricken sixty percent! But he still takes seven out of every nine shots from three or at the rim. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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44TheLogo Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 6364
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | That's a very interesting way to put it. So basketball strategy is becoming like Chess. It reminds me of football, if the Offense throws a checkdown pass, the defense wins, unless you have a special RB catching that checkdown, who can turn it into an 8 yard gain instead of basically nothing. Chess with outlier athletes breaking the game |
Yeah, I guess you could say that.
Frankly, I'd love for them to move the 3PT line back about 3-4 feet (while widening the court) to bridge the gap between the value of a mid range shot and the 3PT shot a bit. I think it'd be more interesting basketball.
Also, part of what makes Golden State so gnarly is that now they have two of the only guys in the league where shooting a mid range shot is a good possession (KD & Steph) while still being killer from 3PT range. Hard to "win" a possession against them, defensively. Turning them over is probably your best bet. |
Get rid of the lines, add sensors in the ball and under the floor, and make each basket a gradient point based on how far from the basket you are, starting with 2 points for a dunk/layup and scaling back to 3 for a 3 pointer, so that a midrange shot is worth like 2.5 lol _________________ substance over style |
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JJin77 Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 May 2016 Posts: 495
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Steph shoots (bleep) 62.7% from 16 feet to the 3PT line and 55.6% from 10-16 feet. |
No kidding I've been arguing with that guy that BI needs to shoot 60% from mid which has never been done before. That's just crazy.
There you go Car. If that's what you envision BI can become, more power
to him and you. Let him master the mid range, lost art of the game. It's not entirely impossible, he only has to become best shooter of all time level. |
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JJin77 Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 May 2016 Posts: 495
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | RoyalPurple8 wrote: | Excellent idea, especially with the players being bigger, stronger, faster as well. |
Yeah, I don't think people envisioned this when they adopted the 3PT line in 1979-80. Moving the line back 3-4 feet would increase the importance of bigs and mid range guys, and would allow different styles of teams to be contenders. Now, if you're not one of the better 3PT shooting teams in the league, you can forget about it. |
Widening the court, moving the 3pt line further back and such have been
talked about a lot lately and they make a lot of sense. What do you think is keeping the league from changing? Perhaps moving the 3pt line is a bit more tricky but widening the court? Especially when we hear from tv announcers all the time how the league needs to make a change whenever a player step out of bound from the corner you would expect something would done by now. Less revenue for teams from removed courtside seat was only reasonable explanation that I could come up with. But can the league just force it?
Last edited by JJin77 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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44TheLogo wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | That's a very interesting way to put it. So basketball strategy is becoming like Chess. It reminds me of football, if the Offense throws a checkdown pass, the defense wins, unless you have a special RB catching that checkdown, who can turn it into an 8 yard gain instead of basically nothing. Chess with outlier athletes breaking the game |
Yeah, I guess you could say that.
Frankly, I'd love for them to move the 3PT line back about 3-4 feet (while widening the court) to bridge the gap between the value of a mid range shot and the 3PT shot a bit. I think it'd be more interesting basketball.
Also, part of what makes Golden State so gnarly is that now they have two of the only guys in the league where shooting a mid range shot is a good possession (KD & Steph) while still being killer from 3PT range. Hard to "win" a possession against them, defensively. Turning them over is probably your best bet. |
Get rid of the lines, add sensors in the ball and under the floor, and make each basket a gradient point based on how far from the basket you are, starting with 2 points for a dunk/layup and scaling back to 3 for a 3 pointer, so that a midrange shot is worth like 2.5 lol |
First thought that came to my mind after reading your post was Charles Barkley trying to explain this on Inside the NBA. |
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oldschool32 Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 20032
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | RoyalPurple8 wrote: | Excellent idea, especially with the players being bigger, stronger, faster as well. |
Yeah, I don't think people envisioned this when they adopted the 3PT line in 1979-80. Moving the line back 3-4 feet would increase the importance of bigs and mid range guys, and would allow different styles of teams to be contenders. Now, if you're not one of the better 3PT shooting teams in the league, you can forget about it. |
That's pretty much what I'd like to see. There has to be some form of variety in the game. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Right now, the Warriors are the presumptive favorites. If they move the line back, they are winners for the next 5 years straight, since KD and Steph could probably maintain their percentages from that distance, while the teams that have spent all this time trying to stockpile shooters to get that extra point suddenly find themselves back to square one. I'd rather them just add a 4pt line -Warriors would still benefit, but with enough volume and accuracy from 3pt range, you'd have a shot. To be frank, however, all of these changes suck, they just make the Warriors more lethal than they already are. Imagine the driving lanes they'd have with a widened court. How could you defend them? |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Cutheon wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | at Wiggins ahead of Ingram. |
When I first saw that list, and read BigGameHermes act as if it would be absurd to believe BI was top 3 on that list, I lost it. It's basically a trash heap of who gives a (bleep) with Giannis, BI, Tatum, Brown, and RHJ |
Sorry I made you lose your mind. As of right now, Giannas, Wiggins, Tatum, Brown are better IMO. I’m not talking as a prospect. They all start and play significant roles on teams in the top 6 of the NBA. Parker when healthy is better. I said he’s not top 3 when somebody said he’s clearly in the top 3. I didn’t say it’s absurd to put him top 3. I think he’s arguably top 5 and could hear an argument for top 3 although I disagree. |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Giannis for sure; Tatum and Brown are probably as good, but play in significantly superior systems where they are expected to play within themselves. BI is asked to do more. And I find it kind of funny that you think he's in the top 5, but stated "you can't really believe that" for someone arguing he is clearly top 3. The difference is basically tatum and brown, and I'd argue that you cannot "really believe" they are so much better than BI it's difficult to imagine someone thinking he's in the top 3.
As for Wiggins...just no. Completely plateau'd in his development. I've made the Wiggins to Bi comp in the past and that was usually in the context of BI's floor/what could happen if his game was mismanaged. Wiggins is vastly superior athlete, has a good motor, and can score - but that's about it.
In any event, it doesn't seem that we disagree all that much - i just found it hilarious that you thought he could not be top 3 on a list that included studs like Brooks, Grant, and Anu-no-one-gives-a-(bleep)-oby. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: |
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He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
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jumpinmp Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Mar 2004 Posts: 641
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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jumpinmp wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
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durden-tyler Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | jumpinmp wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
http://bkref.com/tiny/xt2e4 |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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durden-tyler wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | jumpinmp wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
http://bkref.com/tiny/xt2e4 |
I don’t get it? |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Anu-no-one-gives-a-(bleep)-oby. |
There's a direct correlation to the Raptor wins and Anunoby's increased PT. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Cutheon wrote: | Giannis for sure; Tatum and Brown are probably as good, but play in significantly superior systems where they are expected to play within themselves. BI is asked to do more. And I find it kind of funny that you think he's in the top 5, but stated "you can't really believe that" for someone arguing he is clearly top 3. The difference is basically tatum and brown, and I'd argue that you cannot "really believe" they are so much better than BI it's difficult to imagine someone thinking he's in the top 3.
As for Wiggins...just no. Completely plateau'd in his development. I've made the Wiggins to Bi comp in the past and that was usually in the context of BI's floor/what could happen if his game was mismanaged. Wiggins is vastly superior athlete, has a good motor, and can score - but that's about it.
In any event, it doesn't seem that we disagree all that much - i just found it hilarious that you thought he could not be top 3 on a list that included studs like Brooks, Grant, and Anu-no-one-gives-a-(bleep)-oby. |
I would be very surprised if he doesn’t pass Wiggins, but he hasn’t yet. I understand Wiggins hasn’t and likely will never reach his ceiling. Doesn’t mean he isn’t better now. The word clearly was the main reason I responded how I did, I stand by that although I see why it was misunderstood. I never mentioned those other 3. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: |
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durden-tyler wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | jumpinmp wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
http://bkref.com/tiny/xt2e4 |
He's scored 23+ points just 8 times in 53 games this season, while playing nearly 34 minutes per game, but he's gonna average that over the course of 25 games. Alrighty then.
How about we get to like 18 points per 36 first on like 54 TS%? That seems like a reasonable goal. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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^How dare you try and be reasonable. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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durden-tyler Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | durden-tyler wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
http://bkref.com/tiny/xt2e4 |
I don’t get it? |
If you think he’ll be at the level of these 4 players to end the year, you’re delusionnal… |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | durden-tyler wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | jumpinmp wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
http://bkref.com/tiny/xt2e4 |
I don’t get it? |
Those are the guys averaging that this year. You’re expecting way more than a high note. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | durden-tyler wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | jumpinmp wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
He ended up averaging 13PPG after the ASB last year, I would like to him average 23/5/6 to finish the season, he’s currently averaging 20PPG in the last few games |
Uh, I'd like him to average 40/15/10. Jesus. |
Coming out of Duke he was seen as a guy who had unlimited potential, it’s not crazy to assume that he can end the season on a high note |
http://bkref.com/tiny/xt2e4 |
I don’t get it? |
Those are the guys averaging that this year. You’re expecting way more than a high note. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
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I would settle for 19/5/6 |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Cutheon wrote: | Giannis for sure; Tatum and Brown are probably as good, but play in significantly superior systems where they are expected to play within themselves. BI is asked to do more. And I find it kind of funny that you think he's in the top 5, but stated "you can't really believe that" for someone arguing he is clearly top 3. The difference is basically tatum and brown, and I'd argue that you cannot "really believe" they are so much better than BI it's difficult to imagine someone thinking he's in the top 3.
As for Wiggins...just no. Completely plateau'd in his development. I've made the Wiggins to Bi comp in the past and that was usually in the context of BI's floor/what could happen if his game was mismanaged. Wiggins is vastly superior athlete, has a good motor, and can score - but that's about it.
In any event, it doesn't seem that we disagree all that much - i just found it hilarious that you thought he could not be top 3 on a list that included studs like Brooks, Grant, and Anu-no-one-gives-a-(bleep)-oby. |
I would be very surprised if he doesn’t pass Wiggins, but he hasn’t yet. I understand Wiggins hasn’t and likely will never reach his ceiling. Doesn’t mean he isn’t better now. The word clearly was the main reason I responded how I did, I stand by that although I see why it was misunderstood. I never mentioned those other 3. |
They were in the list, but you're right, you did not mention them |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Quote: | Anu-no-one-gives-a-(bleep)-oby. |
There's a direct correlation to the Raptor wins and Anunoby's increased PT. |
I know but he has the easiest name to make fun of |
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