OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Sigh.. smh. You know what lol, I believe you're sitting somewhere having a good laugh. You don't really believe the things you're saying, jokes on us.


Honestly, I believe that he probably works hard just like almost every other young NBA player trying to make it. With that said, I don’t think he’s proven he works harder than the average player in his position. Quotes don’t convince me otherwise. That doesn’t mean I think his talent level is that of an average player though.

But hell yea do I double down to have some fun. Quite frankly, I don’t think this thread has logic based arguments very often and when they are attempted, the typical martyrs come out in their beloved Ingram’s defense. If my points were met with counterpoints and opposing facts(not biased quotes) then great I’ll take it serious. But when they’re met with broad unsubstantiated claims, insults, and people twisting my words, I’m gonna toy with y’all a bit. We’re all Lakers fans and I hope y’all don’t take it personal but the facts don’t point towards him being the player you think he is. If he has the work ethic you think he does, he’s got a chance to improve his play and change those facts. Have a good one Devin, it’s a beautiful SoCal day.


Fwiw, this is an admission of textbook trolling. I get when people have irrational and silly opinions that there’s an urge to set them straight, but when that crosses into the urge to toy with them, that’s not ok. You’re right that this thread is a cesspool of poor posts, but lowering that standard even further does no one any good. Argue on the level or move on.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play.


I'm not ready to say Ingram is an above average starter on a championship team.

I find it hard to believe Tayshaun Prince would be either, in 2018.
I probably don't want to know what sparked this conversation, do I?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.

The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws.


b0x ThCoRes


You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.

All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well.


Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point.


Even though you've admitted that you're trolling, I can't let this one go.

More opportunities to do what exactly ? Get steals ? Rebounds ? Assists ?

And those Pistons teams were starved for scoring. If Prince could have gotten buckets, he would have been a focal point of the offense. BI's already better at attacking the rim out of iso than Prince ever was.


We get it. You worship the ground that Lonzo walks on and are somehow weirdly threatened that people like Ingram. News flash- the vast majority of Ingram fans who think he can be an AS want Lozno to also become an AS- because we're actually fans of the Lakers and want the whole team to do well.

I avoid the Lonzo thread because there are too many idiots that hate on him for no reason, but don't confuse people liking one of our other young players for hating on Zo.

It's so played out to have so-called Laker fans pit our young players against each other. One doesn't have to be denigrated to make the other look better. They can all rise together and hopefully will.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject:

Second rule of Troll Club: never admit you're trolling.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Andy Bailey
@AndrewDBailey
·
12h
Of the 57 rookies in NBA history who logged 1,500+ minutes and had a -3.5 or worse Box Plus-Minus, only 13 had a Box Plus-Minus of -1.5 or better in Year 2.

Brandon Ingram is one. Five of the other 12 went on to make at least one All-Star game.


Outlier development.

Playing next to Lebron is really going to help all our young guys, much like playing next to Kyrie and Horford made the game easier for Tatum and Brown. One more reason I’m happy about holding onto the young guys. We get a year to see how they’re progressing and how they mesh with Lebron.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:39 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Andy Bailey
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·
15h
The only players in NBA history to total as many points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks as Brandon Ingram through their Age-20 seasons: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Tracy McGrady.

Durant and LeBron are the only two who did it in only two seasons.


This obviously doesn’t factor in efficiency, but that is damn fine company to be keeping. With Lebron here, hopefully the staff focuses on turning BI into a real Swiss Army Knife.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
Quote:
Andy Bailey
@AndrewDBailey
·
12h
Of the 57 rookies in NBA history who logged 1,500+ minutes and had a -3.5 or worse Box Plus-Minus, only 13 had a Box Plus-Minus of -1.5 or better in Year 2.

Brandon Ingram is one. Five of the other 12 went on to make at least one All-Star game.


Outlier development.

Playing next to Lebron is really going to help all our young guys, much like playing next to Kyrie and Horford made the game easier for Tatum and Brown. One more reason I’m happy about holding onto the young guys. We get a year to see how they’re progressing and how they mesh with Lebron.


Just off of history, 7 out of 12 chance he doesn't make at least one all star game? Would have been nice if he mentioned if they were East or West all stars. Anyone know the importance of using -1.5 as the barometer?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
Quote:
Andy Bailey
@AndrewDBailey
·
15h
The only players in NBA history to total as many points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks as Brandon Ingram through their Age-20 seasons: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Tracy McGrady.

Durant and LeBron are the only two who did it in only two seasons.


This obviously doesn’t factor in efficiency, but that is damn fine company to be keeping. With Lebron here, hopefully the staff focuses on turning BI into a real Swiss Army Knife.


Nice.
I'd be interested to see how many minutes and games other players got before age 20 as well. That is a fine list.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:02 am    Post subject:

I see Pippen as Ingram’s ceiling.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:03 am    Post subject:

NotHype wrote:
I see Pippen as Ingram’s ceiling.


the best defensive wing of all time, for a player who hasn't showed above average defensive chops. ok
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
NotHype wrote:
I see Pippen as Ingram’s ceiling.


the best defensive wing of all time, for a player who hasn't showed above average defensive chops. ok


Guess we’ll just have to wait and see!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:08 am    Post subject:

I have a feeling Brandon Ingram is going to thrive playing alongside LeBron. This will be a big year for him, can’t wait.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
NotHype wrote:
I see Pippen as Ingram’s ceiling.


the best defensive wing of all time, for a player who hasn't showed above average defensive chops. ok


if Pippen is the baraometer, then let’s wait to see if Ingram shows any defensive chops when he turns 22.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:51 am    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.

The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws.


b0x ThCoRes


You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.

All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well.


Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point.


Even though you've admitted that you're trolling, I can't let this one go.

More opportunities to do what exactly ? Get steals ? Rebounds ? Assists ?

And those Pistons teams were starved for scoring. If Prince could have gotten buckets, he would have been a focal point of the offense. BI's already better at attacking the rim out of iso than Prince ever was.


We get it. You worship the ground that Lonzo walks on and are somehow weirdly threatened that people like Ingram. News flash- the vast majority of Ingram fans who think he can be an AS want Lozno to also become an AS- because we're actually fans of the Lakers and want the whole team to do well.

I avoid the Lonzo thread because there are too many idiots that hate on him for no reason, but don't confuse people liking one of our other young players for hating on Zo.

It's so played out to have so-called Laker fans pit our young players against each other. One doesn't have to be denigrated to make the other look better. They can all rise together and hopefully will.


This is my thinking as well, I do it for peace of mind. I'm just as high on Ball. His detractors come off as more irrational to me, I could be wrong but I don't think they can be reasoned with. Those not so high on Ingram usually base their projections and perceptions of him on actual data. Which is reasonable, even though I find a good percentage of it to be of little value. He's raw physically, and skill wise.

I don't think anyone should be pegged an Ingram lover or stan when they are simply defending him against absurd takes. Most of us aren't saying he's going to be the next KD, or Pippen.

I think generally we're saying he's got a shot at reaching that level of greatness. We could argue the odds, but at the end of the day analytics, nor an eye test gives us an ability to predict the future.

Would anyone have projected KL being the KL that he is now based on his first year in the league? Would an eye test or analytics have given us a clue? No, they wouldn't have.. which is why I have a problem with posters tapering expectations for other members. Seemingly annoyed that some of us are so optimistic about potential outcomes. I don't think it's cool to post "he won't ever be" comments in regards to any of our young players, but that's just me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:15 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Holy sh*t... Prince only exceeded the number of rebounds that Ingram averaged last year once in 13 years. He never exceeded his scoring or assists average. He's considered an elite defender but he never averaged more steals than Ingram did last year. For all his length... even though he started out well... he never blocked anything most of his career.

The only thing Tayshaun did definitively better than Ingram was shoot free throws.


b0x ThCoRes


You can spin the narrative all you want... I watched Tayshaun... and he's a better defender than Ingram at this stage... but he's a lot older and didn't reach his full maturity until around 23-24. Some of you all are remembering this through rose colored glasses. And I don't know how you can be considered at the same level of Kawhi generating half or a third of his steals.

All I'm saying is Ingram is a work in progress and he's already exceeded any steals numbers that Tayshaun put up and he's not reached physical maturity. You can say it's all about intangibles and advanced analytics but I'm thinking it's mostly about a terrific team where Tayshaun complimented it very well.


Ingram had WAY more opportunities on a bad team. Prince fewer opportunities on a better team. Ingram more potential IMO but not near Prince impact at this point.


Even though you've admitted that you're trolling, I can't let this one go.

More opportunities to do what exactly ? Get steals ? Rebounds ? Assists ?

And those Pistons teams were starved for scoring. If Prince could have gotten buckets, he would have been a focal point of the offense. BI's already better at attacking the rim out of iso than Prince ever was.


We get it. You worship the ground that Lonzo walks on and are somehow weirdly threatened that people like Ingram. News flash- the vast majority of Ingram fans who think he can be an AS want Lozno to also become an AS- because we're actually fans of the Lakers and want the whole team to do well.

I avoid the Lonzo thread because there are too many idiots that hate on him for no reason, but don't confuse people liking one of our other young players for hating on Zo.

It's so played out to have so-called Laker fans pit our young players against each other. One doesn't have to be denigrated to make the other look better. They can all rise together and hopefully will.


This is my thinking as well, I do it for peace of mind. I'm just as high on Ball. His detractors come off as more irrational to me, I could be wrong but I don't think they can be reasoned with. Those not so high on Ingram usually base their projections and perceptions of him on actual data. Which is reasonable, even though I find a good percentage of it to be of little value. He's raw physically, and skill wise.

I don't think anyone should be pegged an Ingram lover or stan when they are simply defending him against absurd takes. Most of us aren't saying he's going to be the next KD, or Pippen.

I think generally we're saying he's got a shot at reaching that level of greatness. We could argue the odds, but at the end of the day analytics, nor an eye test gives us an ability to predict the future.

Would anyone have projected KL being the KL that he is now based on his first year in the league? Would an eye test or analytics have given us a clue? No, they wouldn't have.. which is why I have a problem with posters tapering expectations for other members. Seemingly annoyed that some of us are so optimistic about potential outcomes. I don't think it's cool to post "he won't ever be" comments in regards to any of our young players, but that's just me.


All you can ask of a player is consistent improvement. BI year 1 to year 2 was dramatic improvement. He does that one more time...and the odds are in his favor with LBJ now here...and he's an allstar caliber player.

The folks putting him down as a prospect seem to have a hard time with this single point of observation...dramatic improvement from year 1. That says a lot of good things for BI and for us as a team.fwiw
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject:

Where did that new user Endless (something) go? He was waving the Ingram flag pretty hard for us just a few weeks ago. Now I’ll just look crazy again along with SocalDevin. 🤪
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:33 am    Post subject:

[quote="tox"][quote="kikanga"]
socalsp3 wrote:
Prince was a great defender that's it. Not a shooter not a play maker. I don't think even a garbage team would give the ball to Prince and tell him to go make a play.



Someone clearly didn't watch Tayshaun in college or as a pro early on.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Where did that new user Endless (something) go? He was waving the Ingram flag pretty hard for us just a few weeks ago. Now I’ll just look crazy again along with SocalDevin. 🤪


Nah, y'all not alone homie.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject:

Ingram is breaking out this season. I think he was almost there last season and even Magic expected 20 ppg from him. He was close last season but I expect this to be his year. We won’t be talking about trading for another wing anymore after this season.

Personally between

Lonzo
Hart
Ingram
Kuzma

I feel like we’re set 1-4 for the next 10 years. Maybe even center if zubac or Wagner pan out.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

After watching a few vids that GT did on BI, I think Ingram is going to exploit defenses that are compromised by LeBron's offensive gravity. BI is still maturing as an iso scorer, but he was great at attacking the rim when the opposing defense was out of position. That's going to happen a lot with LeBron on the floor. BI won't be the only one to benefit either. Kuz and Hart are going to see a lot of great looks at the rim as well.

A lot has been made about the lack of shooting on the team, but the truth is that LeBron's gravity creates not just good looks from the perimeter but opens up driving lanes for players who are capable of exploiting those holes. LeBron hasn't had this many guys on his team who can attack the rim when the defense is compromised.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
After watching a few vids that GT did on BI, I think Ingram is going to exploit defenses that are compromised by LeBron's offensive gravity. BI is still maturing as an iso scorer, but he was great at attacking the rim when the opposing defense was out of position. That's going to happen a lot with LeBron on the floor. BI won't be the only one to benefit either. Kuz and Hart are going to see a lot of great looks at the rim as well.

A lot has been made about the lack of shooting on the team, but the truth is that LeBron's gravity creates not just good looks from the perimeter but opens up driving lanes for players who are capable of exploiting those holes. LeBron hasn't had this many guys on his team who can attack the rim when the defense is compromised.


What will be fun to see is BI's improved playmaking with LBJ/Lonzo's playmaking on the starting unit. So you will see a lot of secondary shot creation that emanates from LBJ's initial gravity. That will lead to lots of open shots/cuts to the rim.

Can't understate how nasty it will be to see LBJ/Lonzo/BI passing trio as part of the starting group.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Where did that new user Endless (something) go? He was waving the Ingram flag pretty hard for us just a few weeks ago. Now I’ll just look crazy again along with SocalDevin. 🤪


Lol. He just got his old screen name back. 1ngr4m
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
After watching a few vids that GT did on BI, I think Ingram is going to exploit defenses that are compromised by LeBron's offensive gravity. BI is still maturing as an iso scorer, but he was great at attacking the rim when the opposing defense was out of position. That's going to happen a lot with LeBron on the floor. BI won't be the only one to benefit either. Kuz and Hart are going to see a lot of great looks at the rim as well.

A lot has been made about the lack of shooting on the team, but the truth is that LeBron's gravity creates not just good looks from the perimeter but opens up driving lanes for players who are capable of exploiting those holes. LeBron hasn't had this many guys on his team who can attack the rim when the defense is compromised.


What will be fun to see is BI's improved playmaking with LBJ/Lonzo's playmaking on the starting unit. So you will see a lot of secondary shot creation that emanates from LBJ's initial gravity. That will lead to lots of open shots/cuts to the rim.

Can't understate how nasty it will be to see LBJ/Lonzo/BI passing trio as part of the starting group.


Great point. This is where Lonzo, in particular, excels, but we have a lot of other guys who can create offense for themselves and others off this secondary action.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
After watching a few vids that GT did on BI, I think Ingram is going to exploit defenses that are compromised by LeBron's offensive gravity. BI is still maturing as an iso scorer, but he was great at attacking the rim when the opposing defense was out of position. That's going to happen a lot with LeBron on the floor. BI won't be the only one to benefit either. Kuz and Hart are going to see a lot of great looks at the rim as well.

A lot has been made about the lack of shooting on the team, but the truth is that LeBron's gravity creates not just good looks from the perimeter but opens up driving lanes for players who are capable of exploiting those holes. LeBron hasn't had this many guys on his team who can attack the rim when the defense is compromised.


What will be fun to see is BI's improved playmaking with LBJ/Lonzo's playmaking on the starting unit. So you will see a lot of secondary shot creation that emanates from LBJ's initial gravity. That will lead to lots of open shots/cuts to the rim.

Can't understate how nasty it will be to see LBJ/Lonzo/BI passing trio as part of the starting group.


Great point. This is where Lonzo, in particular, excels, but we have a lot of other guys who can create offense for themselves and others off this secondary action.


Aside from historically great shooting, the underrated aspect of the Warriors great play is their secondary creation...mostly by Draymond but also others. Steph/KD/Klay draw gravity but when you can exploit that with Draymond who then rips a team's defense apart with his playmaking then you're dead.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
Quote:
Andy Bailey
@AndrewDBailey
·
12h
Of the 57 rookies in NBA history who logged 1,500+ minutes and had a -3.5 or worse Box Plus-Minus, only 13 had a Box Plus-Minus of -1.5 or better in Year 2.

Brandon Ingram is one. Five of the other 12 went on to make at least one All-Star game.


Outlier development.

Playing next to Lebron is really going to help all our young guys, much like playing next to Kyrie and Horford made the game easier for Tatum and Brown. One more reason I’m happy about holding onto the young guys. We get a year to see how they’re progressing and how they mesh with Lebron.


Just off of history, 7 out of 12 chance he doesn't make at least one all star game? Would have been nice if he mentioned if they were East or West all stars. Anyone know the importance of using -1.5 as the barometer?


Probably used it because that’s the bar Ingram crossed. It’s possibly relevant, but it seems the more concrete point is that very few guys who play as poorly as Ingram as a rookie draw those kinds of minutes.
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