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LKA
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Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| King Kleazy wrote: | | LKA wrote: | The KD comparisons doomed BI from the start imo.
If i recall it was well documented that he wasnt the same type of player, at least i saw this in some video
Before he ever stepped on an NBA court |
Yup, they just were both lanky wingmen. But he was consensus #2 and our team looks to have felt there was no one beyond that pick better, which looking back I can agree. He was or won’t be KD.
Off topic, but I also wouldn’t have went Lonzo just because he can pass. I’m hating seeing a scorer in Tatum in foston. Having Dlo on the roster I would’ve went Tatum then understandably with the swaggy situation found a placement point. This is mainly because I prefer scorers. |
Many of us feel the same .. |
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King Kleazy
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Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | I like Ingram. I think Walton acutely understood early on that he plays best with the ball in his hands.
Unfortunately, he’s a bad fit with two other all pros. Why? Because of that deficient catch and shoot jumpshot.
When players don’t fit, especially with superstars, you cut bait and find other players who fit better.
Until Ingram becomes comfortable shooting off the catch before dribbling off the catch, he’s not a match with other superstars.
On paper, “trading” my (physically) dime piece of a wife for a less attractive, less sexy woman, may seem like an overpay, but, at the end of the day, if the new wife is a better fit with me and, most importantly, improves my overall
household, that’s all that really matters.
Number two pick status and 7’3 wingspan be damned. |
Ok so isn’t pulling him offball putting HIM in a bad position, when Lebron was supposed to play off ball and not cause a rift in development. Add this to the crappy scouting and we’re here.
Who’s the second all pro you speak of?
Ok , I agree you build around superstars, but our situation is unique in that Lebron is older and as much as I’m hoping for KD, AD or Kawhi......they’re not here. So why cut bait on Ingram yet?
I’d be quicker to agree with those that feel this way on Lonzo who imo has more limitations. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Nevertheless, Ingram played a substantial role for Duke this past season, one of the elite offenses in college basketball. 44% of his possessions came off isolations, pick and rolls (as the ball-handler), hand-offs and transition opportunities according to Synergy Sports Technology, which is more similar to the profile of most guards than your typical forward. While playing primarily power forward defensively, Coach K utilized Ingram as his primary creator at times, using his long strides to attack in the open court off defensive rebounds, as well as his ability to handle the ball and operate in one on one situations in the half-court. Ingram's high skill-level starts with his jump-shot, which was extremely reliable all season long, making 41% of his 3-pointers on nearly 200 attempts through 36 games. He's most dangerous with his feet set, hitting 42% of his catch and shoot jumpers on the season (1.247 PPP, 3rd best among all draft prospects behind Buddy Hield and Jamal Murray), as he has fluid and consistent mechanics, a quick release, and is very intelligent about the way he moves off the ball and finds open looks. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Ingram-7260/ ©DraftExpress |
Um, that's pretty damn dead on, considering he shot 39% on low volume last season.
Also, I never read NBAdraft.net.
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Joe Pesci
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: |
| Quote: | | Nevertheless, Ingram played a substantial role for Duke this past season, one of the elite offenses in college basketball. 44% of his possessions came off isolations, pick and rolls (as the ball-handler), hand-offs and transition opportunities according to Synergy Sports Technology, which is more similar to the profile of most guards than your typical forward. While playing primarily power forward defensively, Coach K utilized Ingram as his primary creator at times, using his long strides to attack in the open court off defensive rebounds, as well as his ability to handle the ball and operate in one on one situations in the half-court. Ingram's high skill-level starts with his jump-shot, which was extremely reliable all season long, making 41% of his 3-pointers on nearly 200 attempts through 36 games. He's most dangerous with his feet set, hitting 42% of his catch and shoot jumpers on the season (1.247 PPP, 3rd best among all draft prospects behind Buddy Hield and Jamal Murray), as he has fluid and consistent mechanics, a quick release, and is very intelligent about the way he moves off the ball and finds open looks. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Ingram-7260/ ©DraftExpress |
Um, that's pretty damn dead on, considering he shot 39% on low volume last season.
Also, I never read NBAdraft.net. |
It also says “Ingrams high skill level starts with his jumpshot” if you keep reading.
Trust me Mike, every report touted him as a jumpshooter. Every last one.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| King Kleazy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | King Kleazy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | King Kleazy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | King Kleazy wrote: | The team isn’t really built on anything at the moment. There’s no direction on offense or defense. Not everyone see the game needing to be played through the lense of D’Antoni ball. All the metrics have everyone looking and playing in the same way.
Why select him if his stock is exhausted by 21yrs old. |
The issue is you don’t seem to even be open to the possibility that he may not be an all star level player. So far he hasn’t shown that. Recalibration isn’t a full retreat on a player. Many of us thought he’d be more along offensively by now but this season he’s resorting to a similar FGA/3PA/contested mid range game. It’s only amplified bc we have LBJ and expectations now. All hopes not lost but to question others who may question whether BI isn’t better cast as a utility Iggy type player is not fair either. |
How so? I’m saying allow the kid the chance to learn the nba game. He wasn’t KD in college either, so because lazy draft “experts” can’t see beyond physical similarities, he’s been judged unfairly. Again I’ve said I’d have tradeed him for kawhi this summer.....but we didn’t so let him develop. There’s nobody giving us anyone worth moving him this season. If I see one more post about Kemba imma snap.
IF we get that max....go ahead build in that direction. IF NOT, we are screwed....if we’ve moved more youth, seeing as it makes more sense to build a younger team versus being a old middle of the pack team. A team even with Lebron, not capable of wining the chip. |
And if he wants a 26m max and he’s along this same trajectory?
This is why I keep on emphasizing how important the 3rd year is as opposed to his actual age. |
So you move him if that doesn’t fit your plan.....AT THAT POINT. Didn’t seem to be an issue of overpaying anyone to this point. Hell some wish we’d kept Julius, who wasn’t paid either. Not to mention, the cap payouts aren’t Ingram’s fault, but move him after this summer once we see his results and if our FA lucks out or not. |
You seem to think it’s everyone else’s fault.
At some point it’s put up or shut up for BI. I think he’s safe on the Lakers this season. But if we get KD or KL I think he’s on the block. I’m really rooting for him but his offensive lack of development is troubling. Love his defensive energy. Maybe that’s his calling over being a high volume scorer |
Yinoma he’s 21........how can his development not involve his organization? I specially said if we get one of those max players.....make your move. |
Age isn’t the issue here. It’s the fact he’s a 3rd year player. The CBA And compensation do not make any distinctions. He’s no longer going to be a relatively cheap player soon. And the deals will get worse when he’s entering year 4. It’s just a reality. As someone who was invested in some young guys I hate to see them go but it is what happens.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Trust me Mike, every report touted him as a jumpshooter. Every last one.
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That report literally explained what BI did best, with frequency, PPP, and how he does it. It shouldn't have been a surprise that once he got a season under his belt, he made a huge leap last year because he did the exact same thing he did in college.
The "touted jumpshooting" part is still tied to the 39% he shot in spot ups. He didn't shoot 3s off the dribble last year.
That part too, is also accurate.
Also, I would be FAR FAR more picky about which reports I read about which particular players. There are multiple reasons why I skip NBAdraft.net overall.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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It’s all semantics dude, but when an author says that a player has a high skill level then proceeds to say that said player’s high skill level “starts” with his jumpshot, they are implying that this highly skilled player has a good jumpshot.
Ingram does not. Again, semantics. But it doesn’t change that Ingram was universally tabbed as a jumpshooter. Hate my sources if you’d like; that’s cool, but even these draftexpress dudes said his high level skills begin with his jumper.
They fed the beast like everybody else. I don’t care how right they are about everyone else.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Scouts were enamored with his length. He’s starting to use it on defense but on offense it’s as if he’s a 6’4 player. If he wants to change his paradigm from what he believes is likely a high scoring guy with the ball to a guy who is an all nba level defender and playmaker but not featured scorer I could be down with that.
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lakersfan32
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasn't Ingram being compared to Giannis on here not too long ago? |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | Wasn't Ingram being compared to Giannis on here not too long ago? |
Think people were expecting him to make greater athletic strides than he has |
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | Wasn't Ingram being compared to Giannis on here not too long ago? |
Think people were expecting him to make greater athletic strides than he has |
I have a sneaking suspicion based on things he's said in past interviews that BI is not making it a priority to add weight and muscle to his body. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | Wasn't Ingram being compared to Giannis on here not too long ago? |
People get caught up in the hype then when reality hits, they get overly disappointed. He was compared to KD and fans also got caught up when KD was quoted as saying he was looking in the mirror. However, when you look at BI's game vs Giannis or KD, it's not even close. Whether it's athleticism, shooting, handles etc there aren't many similarities imo. The only similarities are in looks. Tall, skinny frame and long.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | tox wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | Wasn't Ingram being compared to Giannis on here not too long ago? |
Think people were expecting him to make greater athletic strides than he has |
I have a sneaking suspicion based on things he's said in past interviews that BI is not making it a priority to add weight and muscle to his body. |
I don't pay attention to interviews but I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. |
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RusselDoeee01
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Can’t wait till BI drops 30 and this whole forum flip flops their statements |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | Can’t wait till BI drops 30 and this whole forum flip flops their statements |
I will also be excited to see this for the second time in his career. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | Can’t wait till BI drops 30 and this whole forum flip flops their statements |
I will also be excited to see this for the second time in his career. |
Giannis 30 point games
At 19 - zero
At 20 - zero
At 21 - two
My money is on BI beating him to #2. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | Can’t wait till BI drops 30 and this whole forum flip flops their statements |
I will also be excited to see this for the second time in his career. |
Giannis 30 point games
At 19 - zero
At 20 - zero
At 21 - two
My money is on BI beating him to #2. |
When does the Giannising start then |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | Can’t wait till BI drops 30 and this whole forum flip flops their statements |
I will also be excited to see this for the second time in his career. |
Giannis 30 point games
At 19 - zero
At 20 - zero
At 21 - two
My money is on BI beating him to #2. |
When does the Giannising start then |
If he doesn't start soon... that dream may be lost... but I can see him putting together a few big games.
Many a time he's put up a good half... then loses momentum due to himself or Luke's substitution patterns.
It's been a rough week for Ingram fans... but he was on schedule until the last two games.
I think a few breakout performances would go a long way in restoring the faith. He, like Kuz and Lonzo have been really pressing.
I think the lack of expectations have really worked in Hart's favor. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | tox wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | Wasn't Ingram being compared to Giannis on here not too long ago? |
Think people were expecting him to make greater athletic strides than he has |
I have a sneaking suspicion based on things he's said in past interviews that BI is not making it a priority to add weight and muscle to his body. |
I don't pay attention to interviews but I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. |
He was shown lifting weights after a recent home game, with Lance and a trainer.
He said this Summer that he focused on stability strength in the core/lower body. I would think that was a smart move.
He’s always said it’s not about gaining weight, but he never said anything anti lifting/getting stronger. Some guys just don’t have the build to be really athletic. He has no hips, it’s like being on stilts |
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ShowtimeReturns
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Joined: 21 Oct 2017
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| King Kleazy wrote: | | It’s almost as stupid as those that frown and say a player at 22-23 is too old and has no potential in drafting. |
Still trying to wrap my head around that one i.e. Kyle Kuzma and Josh Hart |
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matigol
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:23 am Post subject: |
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He's neither Giannis nor KD...has Tayshaun Prince written all over him
I thought he'll get more consistent with his shot
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | Can’t wait till BI drops 30 and this whole forum flip flops their statements |
I will also be excited to see this for the second time in his career. |
Giannis 30 point games
At 19 - zero
At 20 - zero
At 21 - two
My money is on BI beating him to #2. |
When does the Giannising start then |
On a serious note, do you think his defense has gotten good enough to warrant him still being a starter on this team over Kuz/Hart/whoever else? The offensive fit with the starters is obviously clunky right now, though he probably still deserves more than the 9 games he's played to acclimate, but I'm wondering if his defense makes him worth it anyway.
Jules last year, Zo now...it's not like it's unheard of for us to bench a high pick or limit their minutes, but BI seems to be above such things despite maybe being the one who that would be the best solution for. I feel like if he was able to play in lineups with better spacing (not that we necessarily have more shooting off the bench, but because of the Lebron factor), going against backups and having the ball in his hands more, he could thrive. Rather than try to force a square peg into a round hole, just ask him to play hard for 25ish minutes off the bench, be aggressive all he wants, attack the basket and create plays for others. Limit the minutes with Lebron for a while, get his confidence up a bit, and ease him into the change - I don't see why it's not worth a shot, at least, if the current trend continues. Mcgee/Kuz/Bron/Hart/Zo makes too much sense as our most natural starting lineup anyway. |
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Ingram is just having a bit of a difficult time adjusting to playing with lebron. Last season and especially towards the second half of last season, Ingram’s role was different, he was becoming a go to player. This year he just watching lebron and kuzma take turns passing to each other and jacking up shots or lebron waive him off to a corner so he can Iso. I think if Kuzma is moved to the bench, it would benefit not only Ingram but the starters as a whole. More shots and opportunities for Lonzo and Ingram especially. |
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Yellow
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| matigol wrote: | He's neither Giannis nor KD...has Tayshaun Prince written all over him
I thought he'll get more consistent with his shot |
He could be Prince, but he won't be. That would require severe reduction of ego. |
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BadGuy
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Yellow wrote: | | matigol wrote: | He's neither Giannis nor KD...has Tayshaun Prince written all over him
I thought he'll get more consistent with his shot |
He could be Prince, but he won't be. That would require severe reduction of ego. |
Seriously, BI pulls the trigger often on "Kobe" type shots. If he's not practicing and making 1000 shots a day like Kobe was (or similar work ethic), he has no business taking those shots any more than Swaggy P or JR Smith. |
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