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RG73
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: |
Meanwhile AD is recruiting Boogie so there are no guarantees he will want to come. |
Great, so we can take JR back. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
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1. BI's shooting about the same number of shots this year compared to last year per game. (12.9 FGA in 2017-18; 13.0 FGA in 2018-19).
2. He's also shooting the same paltry 3PAs a game 1.8 3s a game in 2017-18; 1.9 3s a game in 2018-19.
3. His overall 2P% is down from 48.3% to 47.9%; his 3s from 39% to 35%.
4. His BPM is staggeringly changed from -1.3 in 2017-18 to -5.2 this year.
5. TS% down from 53.6% last year (meh) to 51.3% this year (really bad).
Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 1. BI's shooting about the same number of shots this year compared to last year per game. (12.9 FGA in 2017-18; 13.0 FGA in 2018-19).
2. He's also shooting the same paltry 3PAs a game 1.8 3s a game in 2017-18; 1.9 3s a game in 2018-19.
3. His overall 2P% is down from 48.3% to 47.9%; his 3s from 39% to 35%.
4. His BPM is staggeringly changed from -1.3 in 2017-18 to -5.2 this year.
5. TS% down from 53.6% last year (meh) to 51.3% this year (really bad).
Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy. |
He had two horrible games in a row offensively.
If he has two or three efficient games, he should be right back to where he should be numbers wise.
I'd rather BI play the way he has been... than play like Lonzo who seems to be nursing his FG% by shutting it down after he hits a few. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 1. BI's shooting about the same number of shots this year compared to last year per game. (12.9 FGA in 2017-18; 13.0 FGA in 2018-19).
2. He's also shooting the same paltry 3PAs a game 1.8 3s a game in 2017-18; 1.9 3s a game in 2018-19.
3. His overall 2P% is down from 48.3% to 47.9%; his 3s from 39% to 35%.
4. His BPM is staggeringly changed from -1.3 in 2017-18 to -5.2 this year.
5. TS% down from 53.6% last year (meh) to 51.3% this year (really bad).
Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy. |
He had two horrible games in a row offensively.
If he has two or three efficient games, he should be right back to where he should be numbers wise.
I'd rather BI play the way he has been... then play like Lonzo who seems to be nursing his FG% by shutting it down after he hits a few. |
But his offensive profile does not lead to the conclusion that he's improved his style and efficacy on the offensive end.
Still not shooting a lot of 3s.
Lots of mid-range contested shots.
Shooting %s lower across the board.
The point remains, if we get a max wing FA, where does he fit in if he can't shoot 3s consistently?
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
It's a part of every top basketball player's growth curve.
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
That is assuming those players are willing to adapt their roles to fit with James. Every All-star that has played with him has struggled. So why would young developing players not?
If rumors are to be believed, James may be getting the cold shoulder from marquee FAs next year. He has historically cast a big shadow over his teammates when he was prime Lebron. Not too hard to believe that some of the potential "Robins" may not be as enthusiastic to join a declining James for the next few years. They tend to get few accolades and most of the criticisms on a James led team.
Developing the youth and slowly loosening the grips on the reins may be the best option for James and IMO the Lakers.
Roster is currently built to be competitive if not even a bit contentious as the young players struggle to establish themselves as big ego vets demand their mpg. We saw this with every off-season signing. Why lose patience with it now as they inevitably struggle.
Stay the course. Play out this year as is. And then evaluate what is needed next summer when FAs are available, money to spend and young players have (hopefully) established their roles. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
It's a part of every top basketball player's growth curve.
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
That is assuming those players are willing to adapt their roles to fit with James. Every All-star that has played with him has struggled. So why would young developing players not?
If rumors are to be believed, James may be getting the cold shoulder from marquee FAs next year. He has historically cast a big shadow over his teammates when he was prime Lebron. Not too hard to believe that some of the potential "Robins" may not be as enthusiastic to join a declining James for the next few years. They tend to get few accolades and most of the criticisms on a James led team.
Developing the youth and slowly loosening the grips on the reins may be the best option for James and IMO the Lakers.
Roster is currently built to be competitive if not even a bit contentious as the young players struggle to establish themselves as big ego vets demand their mpg. We saw this with every off-season signing. Why lose patience with it now as they inevitably struggle.
Stay the course. Play out this year as is. And then evaluate what is needed next summer when FAs are available, money to spend and young players have (hopefully) established their roles. |
Struggled wouldn't be the right word.
Kyrie was routinely leading lottery teams b/f LBJ got there.
Wade's team wasn't a contender b/f LBJ got there.
Bosh was battling for 1st/2nd round playoffs.
I think those players benefitted tremendously from playing with LBJ, but he was prime LBJ then.
Again, staying the course is likely what they do. But it's no doubt an evaluation year for BI and he's running out of time. Year 3 of the rookie deal is a make/break year for many.
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Nash Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
Which is why:
| Nash Vegas wrote: | All this "Ingram is still adjusting to LeBron", then just let him come off the bench and do his thing while giving LeBron some rests.
He'll likely be much more efficient fit as a sixth man on this team than he is now as a starter because he'll be able to have the ball in his hands more which is his biggest strenght. There are sixth men who are all-stars and Ingram can be that on this team. |
Ingram can be that centerpiece with the 2nd unit.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 1. BI's shooting about the same number of shots this year compared to last year per game. (12.9 FGA in 2017-18; 13.0 FGA in 2018-19).
2. He's also shooting the same paltry 3PAs a game 1.8 3s a game in 2017-18; 1.9 3s a game in 2018-19.
3. His overall 2P% is down from 48.3% to 47.9%; his 3s from 39% to 35%.
4. His BPM is staggeringly changed from -1.3 in 2017-18 to -5.2 this year.
5. TS% down from 53.6% last year (meh) to 51.3% this year (really bad).
Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy. |
He had two horrible games in a row offensively.
If he has two or three efficient games, he should be right back to where he should be numbers wise.
I'd rather BI play the way he has been... then play like Lonzo who seems to be nursing his FG% by shutting it down after he hits a few. |
But his offensive profile does not lead to the conclusion that he's improved his style and efficacy on the offensive end.
Still not shooting a lot of 3s.
Lots of mid-range contested shots.
Shooting %s lower across the board.
The point remains, if we get a max wing FA, where does he fit in if he can't shoot 3s consistently? |
He's not replaced by the max wing FA... he's LBJ's heir apparent.
He only needs to improve his efficiency, strength, and defense and not be a liability in terms of sloppy handles and turnovers.
Hopefully he achieves a 55% TS by the end of the year... As I just said in another post... Kuzma is getting all the layup passes from LBJ that Ingram got from Zo last year. This enormously skews what is happening by making Kuzma look more efficient and Ingram look terrible.
It's like punishing/blaming a surgeon with a high mortality rate because he's taking all the hard cases and rewarding the surgeon with the low mortality rate because all he's taking are slam dunk cases.
Kuzma deserves some of the credit because he's making great runs and finishing with authority... but Ingram has way less chances in the paint and has the thankless job of being asked to create his own shot way more than Kuz.
I think BI will get there... hopefully the FO and the fans have the patience to see it through. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | he's LBJ's heir apparent. |
That's not apparent to me at all.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | he's LBJ's heir apparent. |
That's not apparent to me at all. |
Not in skill level.. but role.
Again... if BI progresses consistently over the next year or two we should keep him.
It's on him though to demonstrate that progression.
As I said... remember that Ingram right now is being tasked the dirty work while Kuzma's getting all the easy passes.
Keep that in mind when judging his numbers. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
It's a part of every top basketball player's growth curve.
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
That is assuming those players are willing to adapt their roles to fit with James. Every All-star that has played with him has struggled. So why would young developing players not?
If rumors are to be believed, James may be getting the cold shoulder from marquee FAs next year. He has historically cast a big shadow over his teammates when he was prime Lebron. Not too hard to believe that some of the potential "Robins" may not be as enthusiastic to join a declining James for the next few years. They tend to get few accolades and most of the criticisms on a James led team.
Developing the youth and slowly loosening the grips on the reins may be the best option for James and IMO the Lakers.
Roster is currently built to be competitive if not even a bit contentious as the young players struggle to establish themselves as big ego vets demand their mpg. We saw this with every off-season signing. Why lose patience with it now as they inevitably struggle.
Stay the course. Play out this year as is. And then evaluate what is needed next summer when FAs are available, money to spend and young players have (hopefully) established their roles. |
Struggled wouldn't be the right word.
Kyrie was routinely leading lottery teams b/f LBJ got there.
Wade's team wasn't a contender b/f LBJ got there.
Bosh was battling for 1st/2nd round playoffs.
I think those players benefitted tremendously from playing with LBJ, but he was prime LBJ then.
Again, staying the course is likely what they do. But it's no doubt an evaluation year for BI and he's running out of time. Year 3 of the rookie deal is a make/break year for many. |
I should have stated "struggled to find their role" with James.
Also wonder how wonderful an experience it was for Bosh, Love and to some extent Irving to play with James. Or any of the roles players from the various teams that were thrown under the bus for not "helping" James enough.
Certainly highs and lows to playing with James. I simply wonder if the balance of each is not in his favor as much as it used to be going forward. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Again, staying the course is likely what they do. But it's no doubt an evaluation year for BI and he's running out of time. Year 3 of the rookie deal is a make/break year for many. |
It’s a tricky situation and you are correct that time is running out. Many other players have gone through the 3 year ringer and their teams moved on.
I think ideally BI would be good as the point forward for the team when Lebron is sitting but it’s challenging for a few reasons:
1. Starting vs. Bench (also alters perception of his value around the league)
2. Rondo
3. Lance
It’s definitely not an easy situation but does need to get figured out before next season. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | he's LBJ's heir apparent. |
That's not apparent to me at all. |
Not in skill level.. but role.
Again... if BI progresses consistently over the next year or two we should keep him.
It's on him though to demonstrate that progression.
As I said... remember that Ingram right now is being tasked the dirty work while Kuzma's getting all the easy passes.
Keep that in mind when judging his numbers. |
I don't understand your BI/Kuz thing. Kuz is just more assertive as a personality. He also doesn't walk around with the "I'm a #2 pick" sense of entitlement either. I think Kuz is carving a role around LBJ while BI is doing the opposite.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
It's a part of every top basketball player's growth curve.
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
That is assuming those players are willing to adapt their roles to fit with James. Every All-star that has played with him has struggled. So why would young developing players not?
If rumors are to be believed, James may be getting the cold shoulder from marquee FAs next year. He has historically cast a big shadow over his teammates when he was prime Lebron. Not too hard to believe that some of the potential "Robins" may not be as enthusiastic to join a declining James for the next few years. They tend to get few accolades and most of the criticisms on a James led team.
Developing the youth and slowly loosening the grips on the reins may be the best option for James and IMO the Lakers.
Roster is currently built to be competitive if not even a bit contentious as the young players struggle to establish themselves as big ego vets demand their mpg. We saw this with every off-season signing. Why lose patience with it now as they inevitably struggle.
Stay the course. Play out this year as is. And then evaluate what is needed next summer when FAs are available, money to spend and young players have (hopefully) established their roles. |
Struggled wouldn't be the right word.
Kyrie was routinely leading lottery teams b/f LBJ got there.
Wade's team wasn't a contender b/f LBJ got there.
Bosh was battling for 1st/2nd round playoffs.
I think those players benefitted tremendously from playing with LBJ, but he was prime LBJ then.
Again, staying the course is likely what they do. But it's no doubt an evaluation year for BI and he's running out of time. Year 3 of the rookie deal is a make/break year for many. |
I should have stated "struggled to find their role" with James.
Also wonder how wonderful an experience it was for Bosh, Love and to some extent Irving to play with James. Or any of the roles players from the various teams that were thrown under the bus for not "helping" James enough.
Certainly highs and lows to playing with James. I simply wonder if the balance of each is not in his favor as much as it used to be going forward. |
Bosh has 2 rings.
Love has a ring.
Neither player sniffs the Finals without him.
It's incredible to me how people want to dump on LBJ for carrying these guys. It's a part of being the "3rd guy" on a team with 3 all stars. Not everyone can be happy. Hell, even Kobe/Shaq, not enough oxygen for anyone else.
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | he's LBJ's heir apparent. |
That's not apparent to me at all. |
Not in skill level.. but role.
Again... if BI progresses consistently over the next year or two we should keep him.
It's on him though to demonstrate that progression.
As I said... remember that Ingram right now is being tasked the dirty work while Kuzma's getting all the easy passes.
Keep that in mind when judging his numbers. |
I don't understand your BI/Kuz thing. Kuz is just more assertive as a personality. He also doesn't walk around with the "I'm a #2 pick" sense of entitlement either. I think Kuz is carving a role around LBJ while BI is doing the opposite. |
I like Kuzma mostly. I accept his defensive shortcomings because he brings confidence and swagger to the team.
I'm only pointing out that LBJ has made Kuz his go to receiver this season which inflates his contribution, masks his poorer shooting numbers from range. Meanwhile BI has been the odd man out and forced into creating his own shots more often.
If the situation was reversed, I think BI would look much better and Kuzma's numbers
33% from 10 to 16 feet
17% from 16 to 3 point line
29% from three
would be more glaring.
Last edited by Sentient Meat on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
Which is why:
| Nash Vegas wrote: | All this "Ingram is still adjusting to LeBron", then just let him come off the bench and do his thing while giving LeBron some rests.
He'll likely be much more efficient fit as a sixth man on this team than he is now as a starter because he'll be able to have the ball in his hands more which is his biggest strenght. There are sixth men who are all-stars and Ingram can be that on this team. |
Ingram can be that centerpiece with the 2nd unit. |
I have no issue with that role for Ingram.
Forces him to take more responsibility. And in my perfect world reduces James mpg to keep him rested and hopefully more focused on his own defensive efforts.
Although I prefer both he and James do less ISO and more overall player movement. Can you pry the ball out of Stephenson's hands will be the issue.
Also wonder about defensive drop off with the first unit and who takes Ingram's place starting. I have said all along, the roster is built to overwhelm with its depth. Take advantage of that whenever possible. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | he's LBJ's heir apparent. |
That's not apparent to me at all. |
Not in skill level.. but role.
Again... if BI progresses consistently over the next year or two we should keep him.
It's on him though to demonstrate that progression.
As I said... remember that Ingram right now is being tasked the dirty work while Kuzma's getting all the easy passes.
Keep that in mind when judging his numbers. |
I don't understand your BI/Kuz thing. Kuz is just more assertive as a personality. He also doesn't walk around with the "I'm a #2 pick" sense of entitlement either. I think Kuz is carving a role around LBJ while BI is doing the opposite. |
I like Kuzma mostly. I accept his defensive shortcomings because he brings confidence and swagger to the team.
I'm only pointing out that LBJ has made Kuz his go to receiver this season which inflates his contribution, masks his poorer shooting numbers from range. Meanwhile BI has been the odd man out and forced into making his own shots more often.
If the situation was reversed, I think BI would look much better and Kuzma's numbers
33% from 10 to 16 feet
17% from 16 to 3 point line
29% from three
would be more glaring. |
So why do you think BI isn't finding his way into the better graces of LBJ? Could it be b/c he thinks he's "LBJ" when he's nowhere near that?
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | he's LBJ's heir apparent. |
That's not apparent to me at all. |
Not in skill level.. but role.
Again... if BI progresses consistently over the next year or two we should keep him.
It's on him though to demonstrate that progression.
As I said... remember that Ingram right now is being tasked the dirty work while Kuzma's getting all the easy passes.
Keep that in mind when judging his numbers. |
I don't understand your BI/Kuz thing. Kuz is just more assertive as a personality. He also doesn't walk around with the "I'm a #2 pick" sense of entitlement either. I think Kuz is carving a role around LBJ while BI is doing the opposite. |
I like Kuzma mostly. I accept his defensive shortcomings because he brings confidence and swagger to the team.
I'm only pointing out that LBJ has made Kuz his go to receiver this season which inflates his contribution, masks his poorer shooting numbers from range. Meanwhile BI has been the odd man out and forced into making his own shots more often.
If the situation was reversed, I think BI would look much better and Kuzma's numbers
33% from 10 to 16 feet
17% from 16 to 3 point line
29% from three
would be more glaring. |
So why do you think BI isn't finding his way into the better graces of LBJ? Could it be b/c he thinks he's "LBJ" when he's nowhere near that? |
I have no idea about the inside dynamic of the team. I do see a tension between BI and Kuz... where they seem not to pass to each other as much as they should. Maybe there is a rivalry. I agree with you all that Ingram shouldn't be entitled... but have no idea if he actually acts that way, although I did hear he was pissed the game before his suspension because he didn't get to close.
But I don't mind ego to a certain point... it's good not to want to sit in the fourth... wouldn't really respect a player who didn't want to be out there.
The key is whether their attitude poisons the team, or if the player pouts and actively works against the team's best interests and I've haven't seen BI do that.
I think LBJ passes to Kuz because he's been making the superior cuts to the rim. Not much more than that... although they do seem to like each other.
My point was that this relationship makes Kuzma look better than he's actually been playing. Maybe Ingram gets frustrated that when he cuts he's getting less passes... maybe that frustration carries over into other aspects of his play... but I think LBJ is making the right decision there.
I'm only saying this because Ingram would have a better overall FG% and probably be close to 20 points a game if LBJ chose him.
So I wouldn't call his lesser production regression as much as I would call it the result of LBJ's decision making. Ingram isn't any less skilled even though his numbers have worsened. It's important to note that when moving forward as an organization. |
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Black Sheep
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Playing for the LA Lakers, of course players will have ego, to "show" they are the next great Laker.
Clarkson started to act entitled. Randle too.. Dlo..
Kuzma is showing the same thing. Who in their right mind, would let Kuzma and LeBron, both walk to the locker room together, while the rest of the team just sat on the bench and waited for the game to finish, before they went and head back.
I don't think Luke is the right coach for this team. He's too "buddy buddy". He let's players get away with things and when he does stand up, players pout. No win situation. They don't respect Luke. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
It's a part of every top basketball player's growth curve.
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
That is assuming those players are willing to adapt their roles to fit with James. Every All-star that has played with him has struggled. So why would young developing players not?
If rumors are to be believed, James may be getting the cold shoulder from marquee FAs next year. He has historically cast a big shadow over his teammates when he was prime Lebron. Not too hard to believe that some of the potential "Robins" may not be as enthusiastic to join a declining James for the next few years. They tend to get few accolades and most of the criticisms on a James led team.
Developing the youth and slowly loosening the grips on the reins may be the best option for James and IMO the Lakers.
Roster is currently built to be competitive if not even a bit contentious as the young players struggle to establish themselves as big ego vets demand their mpg. We saw this with every off-season signing. Why lose patience with it now as they inevitably struggle.
Stay the course. Play out this year as is. And then evaluate what is needed next summer when FAs are available, money to spend and young players have (hopefully) established their roles. |
Struggled wouldn't be the right word.
Kyrie was routinely leading lottery teams b/f LBJ got there.
Wade's team wasn't a contender b/f LBJ got there.
Bosh was battling for 1st/2nd round playoffs.
I think those players benefitted tremendously from playing with LBJ, but he was prime LBJ then.
Again, staying the course is likely what they do. But it's no doubt an evaluation year for BI and he's running out of time. Year 3 of the rookie deal is a make/break year for many. |
I should have stated "struggled to find their role" with James.
Also wonder how wonderful an experience it was for Bosh, Love and to some extent Irving to play with James. Or any of the roles players from the various teams that were thrown under the bus for not "helping" James enough.
Certainly highs and lows to playing with James. I simply wonder if the balance of each is not in his favor as much as it used to be going forward. |
Bosh has 2 rings.
Love has a ring.
Neither player sniffs the Finals without him.
It's incredible to me how people want to dump on LBJ for carrying these guys. It's a part of being the "3rd guy" on a team with 3 all stars. Not everyone can be happy. Hell, even Kobe/Shaq, not enough oxygen for anyone else. |
My point is established players have had conflicts despite winning rings. So why wouldn't young players trying to establish themselves.
James is trying to establish his role too. He is trying to balance as a mentor for a young team, HC and throw in a much different pace and style then he is used to. All while adjusting to the demands of being in LA and in all honesty the reality of him declining just a bit.
Is his lack of on court sharpness due to declined physical or mental focus? Both?
IMO he needs to trust in the team more. Ingram (starting or 2nd unit) can pick up some slack by taking more mpg and FGAs. I realize not all see that potential. some have written off Ingram as trade fodder.
IMO that is a mistake. Ingram, Ball and Kuzma are all critical pieces of the puzzle if they let them be. Not just for the next couple years but post James too. They squandered another young player in Randle. I prefer they do not do the same with Ingram. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| I don’t care if you’re just talking role, he isn’t LBJs heir apparent. He shouldn’t be as shy as Lonzo shooting, and nobody wants him to be. Many of you act like dominating the ball and taking bad shots or standing in he corner and doing nothing are the only two options for him as an offensive player. There is a massive grey area in between and he needs to find his role there. |
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Bard207
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Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 1. BI's shooting about the same number of shots this year compared to last year per game. (12.9 FGA in 2017-18; 13.0 FGA in 2018-19).
2. He's also shooting the same paltry 3PAs a game 1.8 3s a game in 2017-18; 1.9 3s a game in 2018-19.
3. His overall 2P% is down from 48.3% to 47.9%; his 3s from 39% to 35%.
4. His BPM is staggeringly changed from -1.3 in 2017-18 to -5.2 this year.
5. TS% down from 53.6% last year (meh) to 51.3% this year (really bad).
Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy. |
He had two horrible games in a row offensively.
If he has two or three efficient games, he should be right back to where he should be numbers wise.
I'd rather BI play the way he has been... then play like Lonzo who seems to be nursing his FG% by shutting it down after he hits a few. |
But his offensive profile does not lead to the conclusion that he's improved his style and efficacy on the offensive end.
Still not shooting a lot of 3s.
Lots of mid-range contested shots.
Shooting %s lower across the board.
The point remains, if we get a max wing FA, where does he fit in if he can't shoot 3s consistently? |
Did Magic expect that adding LeBron would lift all players to a higher level or was an allowance made for the possibility that at least one player would have his role diminished?
Last edited by Bard207 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 1. BI's shooting about the same number of shots this year compared to last year per game. (12.9 FGA in 2017-18; 13.0 FGA in 2018-19).
2. He's also shooting the same paltry 3PAs a game 1.8 3s a game in 2017-18; 1.9 3s a game in 2018-19.
3. His overall 2P% is down from 48.3% to 47.9%; his 3s from 39% to 35%.
4. His BPM is staggeringly changed from -1.3 in 2017-18 to -5.2 this year.
5. TS% down from 53.6% last year (meh) to 51.3% this year (really bad).
Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy. |
He had two horrible games in a row offensively.
If he has two or three efficient games, he should be right back to where he should be numbers wise.
I'd rather BI play the way he has been... then play like Lonzo who seems to be nursing his FG% by shutting it down after he hits a few. |
But his offensive profile does not lead to the conclusion that he's improved his style and efficacy on the offensive end.
Still not shooting a lot of 3s.
Lots of mid-range contested shots.
Shooting %s lower across the board.
The point remains, if we get a max wing FA, where does he fit in if he can't shoot 3s consistently? |
Did Magic expect that adding LeBron would lift all players to a higher level or was an allowance for the possibility that at least one player would have his role diminished? |
How is LBJ preventing him from the things listed above?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Only thing I can say he's looked good (and it's just the eye and not even captured in advanced stats as DWS/Drtg have all gotten worse) is his defensive effort. That is why I'm questioning his offensive efficacy, and whether he's better served as a utility defense/playmaker guy. |
Most of the time, he’s been better defensively but I think he’s had stretches where he’s put out little to no effort on that end that are being overlooked by people on here(and the coaching staff as he gets PT no matter what he’s doing on the court). Those could be what’s tanking his analytics numbers. He needs to be held more accountable by the coaching staff on both sides of the ball. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Hate to see this turning into a conflict between Kuzma and Ingram. Both have important roles. Both have strengths and weaknesses to be utilized.
Kuzma has developed chemistry with James because of his aggressive cutting ability and spot up 3's. Hopefully that is being encouraged by the coaches and players. It should be because it is working!
But Ingram is much more comfortable with the ball in his hands as the initiator or go to play maker. Also the much better defender. Hopefully Kuzma is competitive enough to improve in those areas. As Ingram should be watching Kuzma and learning some things too.
Another factor that I have not seen mentioned. Aren't the cuts by Kuzma a part of the offense? Once they get into the half court offense they have specific plays or spacing they establish. Typically Kuzma has the quickness and bball savvy advantage over opposing 4's.
I realize this would give credit to the coaching staff for having a game plan. Contrary to many of opinions, I tend to think they actually contribute too. |
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