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awntawn
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 Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | TheeLakeshow wrote: | We are so early in the process this year with all of the new weapons and yet we are all so glued to the analytical portion of how the team is performing. I think its super important, I am a numbers guy at heart. But I tend to think it really does a disservice to our current situation. And ill stand behind that in regard to every player on our roster.
Its too early IMO. I dont want to box in any of out young guys currently. I just dont. But maybe thats me being a bit loose in that regard. |
Is Year 3 too early to start "boxing" in? Year 4 is extension time. I know he looks like a fawn out there, but at some point the reality of who he is and the league he's in has to come into consideration. |
In regards to the timeline here... year 4. Consider it a blessing you wouldn’t need to max out BI if he under performs. We can get the Steph Curry discount for him to further development in the P&G while stacking the roster with role playing vets. Or, an exp contract in and of itself holds leverage in trade scenarios. Chill, and hope the best for his evolution. Regardless, BI is benefitting from Bron’s influence. There’s a seminar happening on the bench. It’s like interning at Google. You learn as you are assigned to deliver projects. |
I had this exact same thought, and I feel it's an underappreciated line of thinking. Everyone's obsessing over the idea that young players need to pop by year 3 because they have to be worth the max at the end of their rookie contract. Not every player needs to be worth a max contract. No one's going to offer them the max if they're not producing at that level, so there's no need to overpay them. If a young player is of more of a slow burn with a 5-6 year all star trajectory, then he's set to pop after his first contract, which can be advantageous to a team that would, ideally, already be paying 2 max players and be out of cap space. As long as they're able to contribute positively in the now, which guys like Ingram and Ball are now due to their defense, it's perfectly fine to pay them what they're worth now and see if they keep developing.
Everyone felt the same way about Julius. Everyone wanted him gone because he wasn't going to be a max player. When the reality of the market set in and it became apparent that he could be had for 12-15m a year, all of a sudden he became an extremely desirable asset. If the Lakers weren't saving room for two max slots, I think re-signing him to that level of contract would have been a no brainer. He would have been a plus trade asset easily. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Many teams could use BI. Young wing players who defend and play the point with size and length don’t grow on trees. He would fit in Philly, Minny, Orlando, San Antonio, Washington, Brooklyn... pretty much everywhere except for a few teams. |
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€H£M£$TR¥
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Joined: 03 Apr 2017
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Many teams could use BI. Young wing players who defend and play the point with size and length don’t grow on trees. He would fit in Philly, Minny, Orlando, San Antonio, Washington, Brooklyn... pretty much everywhere except for a few teams. |
Many teams including ourselves. Thanksgiving is around the corner. It’s time to realize we’re pretty fortunate, Lakernation.
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Many teams could use BI. . |
Especially our team.
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Inverse
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure why our own fan base tends to hate on our own players so much.
Sure BI has his flaws, but he is progressing nicely. You can tell he really wants to be a maestro in that mid-range game, and I like it. The kid is taking and making some difficult, contested shots...something only LeBron on this roster can do.
One thing I would like to see him do though is consistently take 3's. Would be nice to see him average 5 attempts a game
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | Not sure why our own fan base tends to hate on our own players so much.
Sure BI has his flaws, but he is progressing nicely. You can tell he really wants to be a maestro in that mid-range game, and I like it. The kid is taking and making some difficult, contested shots...something only LeBron on this roster can do.
One thing I would like to see him do though is consistently take 3's. Would be nice to see him average 5 attempts a game |
The bolded is why. |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | Not sure why our own fan base tends to hate on our own players so much.
Sure BI has his flaws, but he is progressing nicely. You can tell he really wants to be a maestro in that mid-range game, and I like it. The kid is taking and making some difficult, contested shots...something only LeBron on this roster can do.
One thing I would like to see him do though is consistently take 3's. Would be nice to see him average 5 attempts a game |
The bolded is why. |
I dont think we hate BI.
We just hate his decisions at times. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Many teams could use BI. Young wing players who defend and play the point with size and length don’t grow on trees. He would fit in Philly, Minny, Orlando, San Antonio, Washington, Brooklyn... pretty much everywhere except for a few teams. |
I dont think he would fit in Philly or DC. |
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saetarubia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Magic knows(or I assume should know) defense matters as much as offense. In fact, defense is way more hard to develop if you don't have that natural feel. You see even bigs that can't shoot build a 3p shot after few years of work. But rarely do terrible defenders end up being good. Ingram has everything to be a good two way player. His shooting is improving every season too. He needs to improve his shot selection and then it will be crystal clear.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Lamarcus Aldridge didn't surpass Ingram's TS% last season until he was 25.
His career TS% is the same as BI's TS% last year at 20. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | Lamarcus Aldridge didn't surpass Ingram's TS% last season until he was 25.
His career TS% is the same as BI's TS% last year at 20. |
He shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers too.
This feels like the old pound-the-post discussions there used to be on LG about 4-5 years ago. |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | Many teams could use BI. Young wing players who defend and play the point with size and length don’t grow on trees. He would fit in Philly, Minny, Orlando, San Antonio, Washington, Brooklyn... pretty much everywhere except for a few teams. |
I dont think he would fit in Philly or DC. |
Butler is obviously the better choice, but Philly would have loved Ingram over RoCo. Also DC could use Ingram over the crap they have at small forward. |
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PauPau
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | Not sure why our own fan base tends to hate on our own players so much.
Sure BI has his flaws, but he is progressing nicely. You can tell he really wants to be a maestro in that mid-range game, and I like it. The kid is taking and making some difficult, contested shots...something only LeBron on this roster can do.
One thing I would like to see him do though is consistently take 3's. Would be nice to see him average 5 attempts a game |
Its only viewed as 'hate' because the amount of fawning is unequal. |
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mookielala
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Haters  |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I know it's his 3rd season in the league. But it's only his 10th regular season game with Lebron. He can still improve offensively. In the meantime, he has to make up for it on the defensive end.
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LKA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mookielala wrote: | | Haters |
BI was a highly touted lottery pick whos now in his 3rd season and still isnt showing promise of the ceiling many hoped for ..
Is everybody supposed to be thrilled rn? |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Lamarcus Aldridge didn't surpass Ingram's TS% last season until he was 25.
His career TS% is the same as BI's TS% last year at 20. |
He shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers too.
This feels like the old pound-the-post discussions there used to be on LG about 4-5 years ago. |
DeMar DeRozan's career TS is 53.6%
Ingram at 20 averaged 53.6%
Lamarcus is a 6 time all star
DeRozan is a 4 time all star
I agree with all the analytics guys that his shot selection needs to improve
But BI at 20 years old is shooting the same as Aldridge and DeRozan did for their entire career.
My point? Shouldn't write the kid off just yet. |
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RusselDoeee01
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | Haters |
BI was a highly touted lottery pick whos now in his 3rd season and still isnt showing promise of the ceiling many hoped for ..
Is everybody supposed to be thrilled rn? |
If you don’t see the promise or the skills and things he can do in the court then you probably don’t know basketball nor have ever played it before |
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LKA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Lamarcus Aldridge didn't surpass Ingram's TS% last season until he was 25.
His career TS% is the same as BI's TS% last year at 20. |
He shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers too.
This feels like the old pound-the-post discussions there used to be on LG about 4-5 years ago. |
DeMar DeRozan's career TS is 53.6%
Ingram at 20 averaged 53.6%
Lamarcus is a 6 time all star
DeRozan is a 4 time all star
I agree with all the analytics guys that his shot selection needs to improve
But BI at 20 years old is shooting the same as Aldridge and DeRozan did for their entire career.
My point? Shouldn't write the kid off just yet. |
Why is DeRozan always brought up ?
Do you remember what DeRozan looked like at 21? BI doesnt even have the same scoring talent or finishing ability as him
I will definitely write that one off .. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Lamarcus Aldridge didn't surpass Ingram's TS% last season until he was 25.
His career TS% is the same as BI's TS% last year at 20. |
He shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers too.
This feels like the old pound-the-post discussions there used to be on LG about 4-5 years ago. |
DeMar DeRozan's career TS is 53.6%
Ingram at 20 averaged 53.6%
Lamarcus is a 6 time all star
DeRozan is a 4 time all star
I agree with all the analytics guys that his shot selection needs to improve
But BI at 20 years old is shooting the same as Aldridge and DeRozan did for their entire career.
My point? Shouldn't write the kid off just yet. |
Why is DeRozan always brought up ?
Do you remember what DeRozan looked like at 21? BI doesnt even have the same scoring talent or finishing ability as him
I will definitely write that one off .. |
Derozan from 0-3 feet at 21 60.6%
Ingram from 0-3 feet at 20 67.3%
Ingram average at 20 16.1
DeRozan average at 20 8.6
DeRozan average at 21 17.2
Ingram finished better and scored better than DeRozan at 20
But remember history through your rose colored glasses.
He's off to a lousy start this season... but he has 70 games to fix it. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | Haters |
BI was a highly touted lottery pick whos now in his 3rd season and still isnt showing promise of the ceiling many hoped for ..
Is everybody supposed to be thrilled rn? |
If you don’t see the promise or the skills and things he can do in the court then you probably don’t know basketball nor have ever played it before |
Followed the game my whole life, played the game my whole life, played varsity in HS so we can dismiss that ..
I dont see a lot of promise in him rn if we’re being completely honest. I see a guy that disrupts the offensive flow who has to dominate the ball just to struggle to score over 6’2” defenders
He constantly takes the worst shots in basketball, his IQ seems to be pretty low as well, he passes up catch and shoot 3s that he should be taking, often times just to create a turnover or drive into a crowd of defenders..
Nothing about him strikes me as elite potential. In terms of his shot..he struggles from 3 and the freethrow line, his finishing ability is pretty bad considering his length, and I’m unsure on his playmaking ability. I’ll admit his ball handling/passing is pretty good at his height but he is definitely no KD with the handle or Simmons type playmaker |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Lamarcus Aldridge didn't surpass Ingram's TS% last season until he was 25.
His career TS% is the same as BI's TS% last year at 20. |
He shoots a lot of mid-range jumpers too.
This feels like the old pound-the-post discussions there used to be on LG about 4-5 years ago. |
DeMar DeRozan's career TS is 53.6%
Ingram at 20 averaged 53.6%
Lamarcus is a 6 time all star
DeRozan is a 4 time all star
I agree with all the analytics guys that his shot selection needs to improve
But BI at 20 years old is shooting the same as Aldridge and DeRozan did for their entire career.
My point? Shouldn't write the kid off just yet. |
I find it a little disingenous to compare the beginning of Ingram's career by TS% to guys who began their careers in the 2000's, before shooting efficiency was understood to the degree it is now.
But if he is going to be a mid-range all-star he should probably work on shooting 80%+ from the free throw line on high volume like those two guys do. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | Haters |
BI was a highly touted lottery pick whos now in his 3rd season and still isnt showing promise of the ceiling many hoped for ..
Is everybody supposed to be thrilled rn? |
If you don’t see the promise or the skills and things he can do in the court then you probably don’t know basketball nor have ever played it before |
Followed the game my whole life, played the game my whole life, played varsity in HS so we can dismiss that ..
I dont see a lot of promise in him rn if we’re being completely honest. I see a guy that disrupts the offensive flow who has to dominate the ball just to struggle to score over 6’2” defenders
He constantly takes the worst shots in basketball, his IQ seems to be pretty low as well, he passes up catch and shoot 3s that he should be taking, often times just to create a turnover or drive into a crowd of defenders..
Nothing about him strikes me as elite potential. In terms of his shot..he struggles from 3 and the freethrow line, his finishing ability is pretty bad considering his length, and I’m unsure on his playmaking ability. I’ll admit his ball handling/passing is pretty good at his height but he is definitely no KD with the handle or Simmons type playmaker |
No tall guys are as good as KD or Simmons...
This is like calling your straight A student kid a failure because he's not as smart as Stephen Hawking.
Does he have room for improvement? Absolutely.
No one is satisfied with his crappy start.
The fact remains that his numbers are in line with second tier all stars at his age. If he gets his percentages up 3 or 4% he will be on par with prime era Melo. He already has equalled DeRozan and Aldridge at 20.
All I'm saying is that it's ludicrous for people who are Lakers fans to continuously tear him down when his numbers are similar to those lower tier stars at the same age. |
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LKA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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BI’s potential on the defensive end that i could see maybe being elite one day
Due to his length .. but offensively i see a lot of issues |
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LKA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | Haters |
BI was a highly touted lottery pick whos now in his 3rd season and still isnt showing promise of the ceiling many hoped for ..
Is everybody supposed to be thrilled rn? |
If you don’t see the promise or the skills and things he can do in the court then you probably don’t know basketball nor have ever played it before |
Followed the game my whole life, played the game my whole life, played varsity in HS so we can dismiss that ..
I dont see a lot of promise in him rn if we’re being completely honest. I see a guy that disrupts the offensive flow who has to dominate the ball just to struggle to score over 6’2” defenders
He constantly takes the worst shots in basketball, his IQ seems to be pretty low as well, he passes up catch and shoot 3s that he should be taking, often times just to create a turnover or drive into a crowd of defenders..
Nothing about him strikes me as elite potential. In terms of his shot..he struggles from 3 and the freethrow line, his finishing ability is pretty bad considering his length, and I’m unsure on his playmaking ability. I’ll admit his ball handling/passing is pretty good at his height but he is definitely no KD with the handle or Simmons type playmaker |
No tall guys are as good as KD or Simmons...
This is like calling your straight A student kid a failure because he's not as smart as Stephen Hawking.
Does he have room for improvement? Absolutely.
No one is satisfied with his crappy start.
The fact remains that his numbers are in line with second tier all stars at his age. If he gets his percentages up 3 or 4% he will be on par with prime era Melo. He already has equalled DeRozan and Aldridge at 20.
All I'm saying is that it's ludicrous for people who are Lakers fans to continuously tear him down when his numbers are similar to those lower tier stars at the same age. |
Advanced metrics and actual eye test causes for concerns imo when evaluating Brandon Ingram .. |
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