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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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 Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Jimmy Butler midrange shooting at 24... full season stats.
3 to 10 feet 20.4%
10 to 16 feet 40.7%
16 to 3 pt line 35.8%
3 point shooting 28.3%
BI shooting at 21 having a so called terrible start.
3 to 10 feet 36.4%
10 to 16 feet 36.7%
16 to 3 pt line 45.0%
3 point shooting 35%
Oh, but the game has changed so much since 2014... BI couldn't possibly be any good... let's trade him, and Kuzma for Butler...
Ugh. Give me a break. |
I don't understand how posting bad offensive numbers from Jimmy Butler in 2013-14 - when he scored just 13.7 points in a whopping 38.7 minutes per game - demonstrates a point in Ingram's favor.
If your point is that there are some guys who were bad on offense early in their careers who eventually became good, of course that's true. There are also a lot of guys who were bad on offense who eventually became average or stayed bad. I don't understand why the default is citing guys who were the exception to the rule. |
Because I found comparable numbers for Russell Westbrook during his MVP season only two years ago.
My point isn't that Ingram is doing well... my point is that all the numbers people are citing against him don't draw anything conclusive about his projected success.
I'm playing devil's advocate against a tidal wave of knee jerk responses.
If he doesn't turn the corner by mid season... I will also begin to lose hope in his ability... but I've seen enough positive signs that I'm not willing to throw in the towel on the guy. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | Because I found comparable numbers for Russell Westbrook during his MVP season only two years ago.
My point isn't that Ingram is doing well... my point is that all the numbers people are citing against him don't draw anything conclusive about his projected success.
I'm playing devil's advocate against a tidal wave of knee jerk responses.
If he doesn't turn the corner by mid season... I will also begin to lose hope in his ability... but I've seen enough positive signs that I'm not willing to throw in the towel on the guy. |
It's totally reasonable to remain optimistic about him. |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
I'm not sure what lock & trail means exactly, but I think he's just too physically awkward to maneuver around screens. Even on the D he was lauded for on McCollum he was giving up way too much space. He's best suited at the 3, but there's just no way swing that in the starting lineup. |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
I'm not sure what lock & trail means exactly, but I think he's just too physically awkward to maneuver around screens. Even on the D he was lauded for on McCollum he was giving up way too much space. He's best suited at the 3, but there's just no way swing that in the starting lineup. |
Lock & trail is when you get belly-up with a shooter's hip before he runs off of a screen. It's a technique you use to stay attached to those guys. I agree regarding his physical build but that's a way he could make that easier. |
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BigBoi
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
I'm not sure what lock & trail means exactly, but I think he's just too physically awkward to maneuver around screens. Even on the D he was lauded for on McCollum he was giving up way too much space. He's best suited at the 3, but there's just no way swing that in the starting lineup. |
The solution is simple to be honest. Let Kuz bring his offensive game off the bench, same way Lou used to do. Start Hart maybe that way our starting lineup would be at least serviceable on defense
Last edited by BigBoi on Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Really nice half as a passer in particular. They should tell him he's the PG every game. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
I'm not sure what lock & trail means exactly, but I think he's just too physically awkward to maneuver around screens. Even on the D he was lauded for on McCollum he was giving up way too much space. He's best suited at the 3, but there's just no way swing that in the starting lineup. |
The solution is simple to be honest. Let Kuz bring his offensive game off the bench, same way Lou used to do. Start Hart maybe that way our starting lineup would be at least serviceable on defense |
I prefer this too. But apparently LBJ told Luke he doesn’t want to start at PF.
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al242
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 3120
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
I'm not sure what lock & trail means exactly, but I think he's just too physically awkward to maneuver around screens. Even on the D he was lauded for on McCollum he was giving up way too much space. He's best suited at the 3, but there's just no way swing that in the starting lineup. |
The solution is simple to be honest. Let Kuz bring his offensive game off the bench, same way Lou used to do. Start Hart maybe that way our starting lineup would be at least serviceable on defense |
I prefer this too. But apparently LBJ told Luke he doesn’t want to start at PF. |
Any truth behind this because I’ve seen you repeat this many times? |
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bandiger
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Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, this is a loss. Done watching  |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | Here's Ingram's defensive numbers on Synergy. I'm a little surprised by the Iso stats (I think a few guys have just hit tough shots, frankly), but the "Off Screen" category definitely matches up with the tape. He dies on off-ball screens because he doesn't lock & trail.
Link...the pic was too big |
I'm not sure what lock & trail means exactly, but I think he's just too physically awkward to maneuver around screens. Even on the D he was lauded for on McCollum he was giving up way too much space. He's best suited at the 3, but there's just no way swing that in the starting lineup. |
The solution is simple to be honest. Let Kuz bring his offensive game off the bench, same way Lou used to do. Start Hart maybe that way our starting lineup would be at least serviceable on defense |
I prefer this too. But apparently LBJ told Luke he doesn’t want to start at PF. |
Any truth behind this because I’ve seen you repeat this many times? |
I forget where I saw this but makes sense. Only reason why I see Kuz starting.
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Sina
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 1801
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Ingram has pretty midrange. He is too tall to be defended. But he should take the shot quicker in one on one. |
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Villain6Activated
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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He just seems to play more naturally when he’s told to be PG.
Wonder if it’s cause he knows he’s gonna continue to get the ball and doesn’t have to take every chance with the fear of not knowing if he’ll get many opportunities or something
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll say it again...Brandon is not the problem... He's the solution |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | I'll say it again...Brandon is not the problem... He's the solution |
His inconsistency is frustrating but I’ll say it again: if you’re looking for him to get benched in favor of Kuzma or Hart then you’re gonna hoping all season. It ain’t happening.
Hart for Kuzma will eventually happen tho
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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People roasted BI for his 6 turnover game... but he's made up for it by zero the last two.
2 turnovers per game... not so bad.
Just need his three ball to start falling. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | He just seems to play more naturally when he’s told to be PG.
Wonder if it’s cause he knows he’s gonna continue to get the ball and doesn’t have to take every chance with the fear of not knowing if he’ll get many opportunities or something |
Yea, he's a much better player when his role is that of a facilitator. His offense comes more naturally, he also get's more touches on the move to make plays for others. |
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LavarBall
Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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should be starting at PG
Ingram
Hart
Lebron
Kuzma
McGee
first sub
svi
Last edited by LavarBall on Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BigBoi
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | People roasted BI for his 6 turnover game... but he's made up for it by zero the last two.
2 turnovers per game... not so bad.
Just need his three ball to start falling. |
I feel like his 3 ball will start to fall with more reps, he should work on it more in the off season, should be better at year 4.
Young players tend to struggle from the extended distance. I think he'll need to get stronger in order to shoot it with ease tho.
Last edited by BigBoi on Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerLand247
Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 4809
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | VicXLakers wrote: | | I'll say it again...Brandon is not the problem... He's the solution |
His inconsistency is frustrating but I’ll say it again: if you’re looking for him to get benched in favor of Kuzma or Hart then you’re gonna hoping all season. It ain’t happening.
Hart for Kuzma will eventually happen tho |
I hope we can get Anthony Davis for Ingram, Kuz and Zo. Then you can join the Pelican forums. |
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Villain6Activated
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LavarBall wrote: | should be starting at PG
Ingram
Hart
Lebron
Kuzma
Mcgee |
Lonzo Ball needs to start ahead Kyle Kuzma. Defense matters and Lonzo is one of more impactful defenders.
They can both average 0 points, but Ingram guarding point guards while Kuzma and Lebron let the opposing win drop 40 on us isn’t going to work.
ESP because Ingram is not gonna be a defensive positive if he is guarding point guards. That’s three defensive positions we get (bleep) at, we don’t have the talent to overcome that/
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ball
Hart
James
Ingram
McGee
It is the correct thing to do |
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24Legend007
Star Player
Joined: 05 May 2018
Posts: 1789
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | Ball
Hart
James
Ingram
McGee
It is the correct thing to do |
I actually agree. |
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KB824MJ
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Posts: 1349
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| He played great tonight. Back to back 17 point performances. He even added 6 rebounds and I think 5 or 6 assists |
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CantStopJM
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2017
Posts: 2992
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Please don't ever compare this man to Kuzma as far as who's better.
It's actually insulting to read. |
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