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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but the variables created by each defender. As long as Ingram learns, he should get better. |
That goes for the entire youthcore.
The guy that adapted shooting the fastest was Josh Hart. Straight after his draft. Straight after his rookie year. It clicked. |
Also a function of being a 22 year old NCAA champion with a fully grown man's body. Credit to Hart as you say... but a huge advantage knowing who you are and will most likely finally be. |
I'd like to credit that, but I don't think that's it.
Guys that have taught Josh Hart have stated that he's able to learn and implement VERY quickly. I don't really think NCAA experience or Tourney experience helps with that. That part of scouting is impossible to do, because it's innate within the person.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | I saw some of Turner’s workout videos and he was working out with a top notch trainer, interesting you question his work ethic..
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And yet his individual output has totally flatlined. His role didn't change. He was supposed to step up last year, and didn't.
Brandon did already, and that was just his 2nd year. Myles Turner has been flatlining/getting worse since. He's now in year 4.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turnemy01.html
So sure, I question the work ethic. |
The block stats are encouraging, he does look more like a guy who can be a vital piece then a guy who can lead a team. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | I saw some of Turner’s workout videos and he was working out with a top notch trainer, interesting you question his work ethic..
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And yet his individual output has totally flatlined. His role didn't change. He was supposed to step up last year, and didn't.
Brandon did already, and that was just his 2nd year. Myles Turner has been flatlining/getting worse since. He's now in year 4.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turnemy01.html
So sure, I question the work ethic. |
The block stats are encouraging, he does look more like a guy who can be a vital piece then a guy who can lead a team. |
How?
OWS and DWS have been getting worse since his 2nd year. Career low. Shooting getting worse, lowered his 3point rate, lower rebounding rate. Worse TO%. Barely blipped up his assist rate.
He's not really playing like a vital piece. Even vital pieces have to be consistent and show career improvement to earn the trust of their teammates.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Damn... I said I wanted Domantas Sabonis over Randle last season... and he's really taken his game to the next level. |
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but the variables created by each defender. As long as Ingram learns, he should get better. |
That goes for the entire youthcore.
The guy that adapted shooting the fastest was Josh Hart. Straight after his draft. Straight after his rookie year. It clicked. |
Also a function of being a 22 year old NCAA champion with a fully grown man's body. Credit to Hart as you say... but a huge advantage knowing who you are and will most likely finally be. |
I'd like to credit that, but I don't think that's it.
Guys that have taught Josh Hart have stated that he's able to learn and implement VERY quickly. I don't really think NCAA experience or Tourney experience helps with that. That part of scouting is impossible to do, because it's innate within the person. |
but at the same time, Hart was drafted in part because of his shooting right? He started doing what he was drafted for right off the bat. There were huge question marks about Ingam and Ball's shooting.
Ball's best asset and why he was drafted by us was his passing. He adapted that straight after his draft and came in doing that at a high level.
With Ingram... he had long arms and was young straight after he was drafted too. Which kinda was his biggest asset (length/body/age) talked about right...
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Damn... I said I wanted Domantas Sabonis over Randle last season... and he's really taken his game to the next level. |
Julius Randle has also taken his game to another level. He's averaging 17/8/2 on 56% in 25 mpg. Thats one less minute but more points/rebounds/steals/blocks.
Somehow he's been getting better while getting his minutes reduced for the third straight season now. Kinda feel bad for the dude lol, he's gonna be averaging 20/10 in like 15 minutes per game by his 10th season.
pood dude
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | but at the same time, Hart was drafted in part because of his shooting right? He started doing what he was drafted for right off the bat. There were huge question marks about Ingam and Ball's shooting.
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In part was shooting, more like, he was just a 2-way player without too many deficiencies.
But he changed his shot form, that summer.
He changed it again, last summer, so that he could shoot off motion.
The trick here is, Ingram did the same. He changed his shot form. But he's not Josh Hart accurate. Lonzo OTOH, and a murky offseason with his knee and off court stuff. Couldn't really improve his game. So, how is he expected to be better?
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | I saw some of Turner’s workout videos and he was working out with a top notch trainer, interesting you question his work ethic..
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And yet his individual output has totally flatlined. His role didn't change. He was supposed to step up last year, and didn't.
Brandon did already, and that was just his 2nd year. Myles Turner has been flatlining/getting worse since. He's now in year 4.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turnemy01.html
So sure, I question the work ethic. |
The block stats are encouraging, he does look more like a guy who can be a vital piece then a guy who can lead a team. |
How?
OWS and DWS have been getting worse since his 2nd year. Career low. Shooting getting worse, lowered his 3point rate, lower rebounding rate. Worse TO%. Barely blipped up his assist rate.
He's not really playing like a vital piece. Even vital pieces have to be consistent and show career improvement to earn the trust of their teammates. |
Yeah, It definitely makes me happy that BI is on a better trajectory then a lot of young players and prospects but you couldn’t tell by looking at this thread  |
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | but at the same time, Hart was drafted in part because of his shooting right? He started doing what he was drafted for right off the bat. There were huge question marks about Ingam and Ball's shooting.
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In part was shooting, more like, he was just a 2-way player without too many deficiencies.
But he changed his shot form, that summer.
He changed it again, last summer, so that he could shoot off motion.
The trick here is, Ingram did the same. He changed his shot form. But he's not Josh Hart accurate. Lonzo OTOH, and a murky offseason with his knee and off court stuff. Couldn't really improve his game. So, how is he expected to be better? |
Yeah Ingram's shooting is super disappointing, the only kind of optimistic thing is that he's improving as a free throw shooter consistently at the very least. I think he'll atleast be in the 75% to 80% range consistently starting next year.
His % from 10-16 feet and 16 to 3P also have been increasing all three years but at the same time, with how much he loves those shots Im not sure that's really exciting to see.
and he's (bleep) anemic to shooting threes again.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Damn... I said I wanted Domantas Sabonis over Randle last season... and he's really taken his game to the next level. |
Julius Randle has also taken his game to another level. He's averaging 17/8/2 on 56% in 25 mpg. Thats one less minute but more points/rebounds/steals/blocks.
Somehow he's been getting better while getting his minutes reduced for the third straight season now. Kinda feel bad for the dude lol, he's gonna be averaging 20/10 in like 15 minutes per game by his 10th season.
pood dude |
To Julius's credit he's managed to improve every season... but Sabonis is on a different level right now.
His TS% is 71%!!!
His FT% is 76%
He's grabbing 9.5 rebounds a game in 24 minutes. He's starting to block more shots.
Don't know if he can sustain these numbers but that PG trade is breaking the axiom that trading a star for smaller players is always a loss for the team who doesn't get the star.
Sorry to derail, but when I was looking up why Turner was stagnating... Sabonis's numbers jumped off the page. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: |
To Julius's credit he's managed to improve every season... but Sabonis is on a different level right now.
His TS% is 71%!!!
His FT% is 76%
He's grabbing 9.5 rebounds a game in 24 minutes. He's starting to block more shots.
Don't know if he can sustain these numbers but that PG trade is breaking the axiom that trading a star for smaller players is always a loss for the team who doesn't get the star.
Sorry to derail, but when I was looking up why Turner was stagnating... Sabonis's numbers jumped off the page. |
If you go back and look at the threads, I was promoting Sabonis big time at his draft. He is quite athletic and extremely skilled, one of the more underrated players in the NBA at present.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: |
To Julius's credit he's managed to improve every season... but Sabonis is on a different level right now.
His TS% is 71%!!!
His FT% is 76%
He's grabbing 9.5 rebounds a game in 24 minutes. He's starting to block more shots.
Don't know if he can sustain these numbers but that PG trade is breaking the axiom that trading a star for smaller players is always a loss for the team who doesn't get the star.
Sorry to derail, but when I was looking up why Turner was stagnating... Sabonis's numbers jumped off the page. |
If you go back and look at the threads, I was promoting Sabonis big time at his draft. He is quite athletic and extremely skilled, one of the more underrated players in the NBA at present. |
Good call... I only caught onto him last season, but he's starting to breakthrough to the next level. |
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where24happens
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ingram screams of a role player according to both the stats and the eye test. He's been a disappointment for sure and I think he'll be good trade bait. |
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | drae wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: |   
Needs more time in the gym. |
He's so lanky. He needs a bit more strength or for his midrange to start falling. To be honest, once his midrange is on song consistently (maybe in a couple of years or so) I think he'll be such a threat. Probably wants a quicker release though, or maybe a fadeaway ... |
Even if you're a believer that he's gonna get to the point where those mid-range jumpers are gonna be good shots for him, he'll need MUCH more in the way of counters to achieve that. For example, Tyler Johnson (who BI has a big height advantage over + even more of a length advantage) sat on his left shoulder and he still forced it that way.
The "right" mid-range shot there is making a front pivot off of his right foot to spin away from the defender and get separation. He's a lot less comfortable going to his left though. |
I’ve noticed this as well but isn’t this where Lebron is suppose to step in, watch film with him and teach him post moves and counters and knowing when to use them.
Damn I miss having what KAJ did for Bynum, is there a way we could duplicate that for our new young guys. |
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Arbitrary
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | drae wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: |
Needs more time in the gym. |
He's so lanky. He needs a bit more strength or for his midrange to start falling. To be honest, once his midrange is on song consistently (maybe in a couple of years or so) I think he'll be such a threat. Probably wants a quicker release though, or maybe a fadeaway ... |
Even if you're a believer that he's gonna get to the point where those mid-range jumpers are gonna be good shots for him, he'll need MUCH more in the way of counters to achieve that. For example, Tyler Johnson (who BI has a big height advantage over + even more of a length advantage) sat on his left shoulder and he still forced it that way.
The "right" mid-range shot there is making a front pivot off of his right foot to spin away from the defender and get separation. He's a lot less comfortable going to his left though. |
I’ve noticed this as well but isn’t this where Lebron is suppose to step in, watch film with him and teach him post moves and counters and knowing when to use them.
Damn I miss having what KAJ did for Bynum, is there a way we could duplicate that for our new young guys. |
I think they’d have to personally ask and insist on KAJ for that. |
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sonic the laker
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Arbitrary wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | drae wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: |
Needs more time in the gym. |
He's so lanky. He needs a bit more strength or for his midrange to start falling. To be honest, once his midrange is on song consistently (maybe in a couple of years or so) I think he'll be such a threat. Probably wants a quicker release though, or maybe a fadeaway ... |
Even if you're a believer that he's gonna get to the point where those mid-range jumpers are gonna be good shots for him, he'll need MUCH more in the way of counters to achieve that. For example, Tyler Johnson (who BI has a big height advantage over + even more of a length advantage) sat on his left shoulder and he still forced it that way.
The "right" mid-range shot there is making a front pivot off of his right foot to spin away from the defender and get separation. He's a lot less comfortable going to his left though. |
I’ve noticed this as well but isn’t this where Lebron is suppose to step in, watch film with him and teach him post moves and counters and knowing when to use them.
Damn I miss having what KAJ did for Bynum, is there a way we could duplicate that for our new young guys. |
I think they’d have to personally ask and insist on KAJ for that. |
Or, more importantly, schedule an off season workout camp, with Kobe. I know Stackhouse is B.I.'s "uncle", and I" respect that. But, it's no mud on Stackhouse's name if Ingram begins to learn from other greats. Just a thought.
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I don’t even call it bashing it’s straight up hatred and trollish, the guy is playing some elite D out there and you guys are expecting him to be a Kobe or a Kyrie next to LeBron, I’m more then happy with him playing the Tayshaun Prince or Pippen role.... I think most of you guys are big fantasy basketball guys that’s why unless BI scores a lot it is always considered a bad game. |
Equating Tayshaun or BI to an HOFer like Pippen is a joke.  |
It would be a joke if that's what he actually did.. He was talking about a role. |
Pippen's role on those Bulls teams was HUGE. What Tayshaun did for his teams wasn't even close. |
Pippen wasn’t even in the league at BI’s age. And at age 22 Pippen’s HUGE role was scoring a GIGANTIC 7 points 
Posters saying we would regret not trading PG for BI please go back and check their salaries, then check how much Indiana was demanding, and check the Lakers being sued for tampering, and check Larry Bird resigning/retiring but still serving as a consultant to ensure Paul George doesn’t end up in LA. Then come back and post your hatred with FACTS. |
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numero-ocho
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | His midrange game is starting to look really smooth. It's starting to look like he feels he can score whenever he wants. I think we'd be fools to think this guy doesn't have all star written all over him in 2-3 years. |
I was more impressed with all his other contributions to the win. Seven rebounds last night following up his six plus seven assists the previous night in Orlando.
I'm glad he's found a way to contribute on offense but concerned how much energy and time he expends getting his shot off.
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Bol
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| If Ingram had been a late first round pick, would he be playing over Hart? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | 1ngr4m wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Damn... I said I wanted Domantas Sabonis over Randle last season... and he's really taken his game to the next level. |
Julius Randle has also taken his game to another level. He's averaging 17/8/2 on 56% in 25 mpg. Thats one less minute but more points/rebounds/steals/blocks.
Somehow he's been getting better while getting his minutes reduced for the third straight season now. Kinda feel bad for the dude lol, he's gonna be averaging 20/10 in like 15 minutes per game by his 10th season.
pood dude |
To Julius's credit he's managed to improve every season... but Sabonis is on a different level right now.
His TS% is 71%!!!
His FT% is 76%
He's grabbing 9.5 rebounds a game in 24 minutes. He's starting to block more shots.
Don't know if he can sustain these numbers but that PG trade is breaking the axiom that trading a star for smaller players is always a loss for the team who doesn't get the star.
Sorry to derail, but when I was looking up why Turner was stagnating... Sabonis's numbers jumped off the page. |
.... and he's still on the trade block. LOL.
Speculation they may offer Randle, Solomon Hill and a pick for Otto Porter. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | 1ngr4m wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Damn... I said I wanted Domantas Sabonis over Randle last season... and he's really taken his game to the next level. |
Julius Randle has also taken his game to another level. He's averaging 17/8/2 on 56% in 25 mpg. Thats one less minute but more points/rebounds/steals/blocks.
Somehow he's been getting better while getting his minutes reduced for the third straight season now. Kinda feel bad for the dude lol, he's gonna be averaging 20/10 in like 15 minutes per game by his 10th season.
pood dude |
To Julius's credit he's managed to improve every season... but Sabonis is on a different level right now.
His TS% is 71%!!!
His FT% is 76%
He's grabbing 9.5 rebounds a game in 24 minutes. He's starting to block more shots.
Don't know if he can sustain these numbers but that PG trade is breaking the axiom that trading a star for smaller players is always a loss for the team who doesn't get the star.
Sorry to derail, but when I was looking up why Turner was stagnating... Sabonis's numbers jumped off the page. |
.... and he's still on the trade block. LOL.
Speculation they may offer Randle, Solomon Hill and a pick for Otto Porter. |
Randle still can't shoot and Otto is a 40% 3 point threat.
Until he develops the midrange and three... he will be a mini version of Shaquille. Had he been a few inches taller, he might have been the second coming of Shaq... but he isn't so he will always have that limitation of having old school center skills with a forward body until he learns to shoot. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| why we talking about Julius randle in Ingram thread? |
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sonic the laker
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but the variables created by each defender. As long as Ingram learns, he should get better. |
That goes for the entire youthcore.
The guy that adapted shooting the fastest was Josh Hart. Straight after his draft. Straight after his rookie year. It clicked. |
Also a function of being a 22 year old NCAA champion with a fully grown man's body. Credit to Hart as you say... but a huge advantage knowing who you are and will most likely finally be. |
I'd like to credit that, but I don't think that's it.
Guys that have taught Josh Hart have stated that he's able to learn and implement VERY quickly. I don't really think NCAA experience or Tourney experience helps with that. That part of scouting is impossible to do, because it's innate within the person. |
but at the same time, Hart was drafted in part because of his shooting right? He started doing what he was drafted for right off the bat. There were huge question marks about Ingam and Ball's shooting.
Ball's best asset and why he was drafted by us was his passing. He adapted that straight after his draft and came in doing that at a high level.
With Ingram... he had long arms and was young straight after he was drafted too. Which kinda was his biggest asset (length/body/age) talked about right... |
Yes, Ingram was drafted because of his length/age. But, to be fair, he was also dreafted because of his shooting, in college. Since college he always had a subpar FT%, but his shooting numbers were 44% from the field, and 41% from 3, respectively. He was seen as a long term project, because of his thin frame, and question marks about the rest of his game.
Funny enough, his rookie year proved analysts wrong. His shooting numbers did not translate, surprisingly. But, he showed himself to be an good ball handler, with good court vision/passing skills, and an average on-ball defender.
Though he's made much progress, B.I. is still seen as a bit of a project, imo. He's still not comfortable shooting 3's, he needs to develop offensive counter moves, and he needs to build up his body (strength, more than bulk). Those are my "key" areas, for him. The other parts of his game are developing at a nice pace, and should continue to do so.
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bandiger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| sonic the laker wrote: | | 1ngr4m wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but the variables created by each defender. As long as Ingram learns, he should get better. |
That goes for the entire youthcore.
The guy that adapted shooting the fastest was Josh Hart. Straight after his draft. Straight after his rookie year. It clicked. |
Also a function of being a 22 year old NCAA champion with a fully grown man's body. Credit to Hart as you say... but a huge advantage knowing who you are and will most likely finally be. |
I'd like to credit that, but I don't think that's it.
Guys that have taught Josh Hart have stated that he's able to learn and implement VERY quickly. I don't really think NCAA experience or Tourney experience helps with that. That part of scouting is impossible to do, because it's innate within the person. |
but at the same time, Hart was drafted in part because of his shooting right? He started doing what he was drafted for right off the bat. There were huge question marks about Ingam and Ball's shooting.
Ball's best asset and why he was drafted by us was his passing. He adapted that straight after his draft and came in doing that at a high level.
With Ingram... he had long arms and was young straight after he was drafted too. Which kinda was his biggest asset (length/body/age) talked about right... |
Yes, Ingram was drafted because of his length/age. But, to be fair, he was also dreafted because of his shooting, in college. Since college he always had a subpar FT%, but his shooting numbers were 44% from the field, and 41% from 3, respectively. He was seen as a long term project, because of his thin frame, and question marks about the rest of his game.
Funny enough, his rookie year proved analysts wrong. His shooting numbers did not translate, surprisingly. But, he showed himself to be an good ball handler, with good court vision/passing skills, and an average on-ball defender.
Though he's made much progress, B.I. is still seen as a bit of a project, imo. He's still not comfortable shooting 3's, he needs to develop offensive counter moves, and he needs to build up his body (strength, more than bulk). Those are my "key" areas, for him. The other parts of his game are developing at a nice pace, and should continue to do so. |
Well he keeps trying even if its inconsistent compared to Ball who just hides most games. |
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sonic the laker
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | 1ngr4m wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but the variables created by each defender. As long as Ingram learns, he should get better. |
That goes for the entire youthcore.
The guy that adapted shooting the fastest was Josh Hart. Straight after his draft. Straight after his rookie year. It clicked. |
Also a function of being a 22 year old NCAA champion with a fully grown man's body. Credit to Hart as you say... but a huge advantage knowing who you are and will most likely finally be. |
I'd like to credit that, but I don't think that's it.
Guys that have taught Josh Hart have stated that he's able to learn and implement VERY quickly. I don't really think NCAA experience or Tourney experience helps with that. That part of scouting is impossible to do, because it's innate within the person. |
but at the same time, Hart was drafted in part because of his shooting right? He started doing what he was drafted for right off the bat. There were huge question marks about Ingam and Ball's shooting.
Ball's best asset and why he was drafted by us was his passing. He adapted that straight after his draft and came in doing that at a high level.
With Ingram... he had long arms and was young straight after he was drafted too. Which kinda was his biggest asset (length/body/age) talked about right... |
Yes, Ingram was drafted because of his length/age. But, to be fair, he was also dreafted because of his shooting, in college. Since college he always had a subpar FT%, but his shooting numbers were 44% from the field, and 41% from 3, respectively. He was seen as a long term project, because of his thin frame, and question marks about the rest of his game.
Funny enough, his rookie year proved analysts wrong. His shooting numbers did not translate, surprisingly. But, he showed himself to be an good ball handler, with good court vision/passing skills, and an average on-ball defender.
Though he's made much progress, B.I. is still seen as a bit of a project, imo. He's still not comfortable shooting 3's, he needs to develop offensive counter moves, and he needs to build up his body (strength, more than bulk). Those are my "key" areas, for him. The other parts of his game are developing at a nice pace, and should continue to do so. |
Well he keeps trying even if its inconsistent compared to Ball who just hides most games. |
Just wanna state this real quick, since I don't want this to turn into a "Ball thread", but I think it's unfair to characterize Zo as "hiding". He's just a pass first player, by nature, and one of the reasons Maginka drafted him. I have faith in him, and the rest of our young guys. Their games will go up, and down, but they should find their footing. We'll have a better idea, near the AS break, I think.
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ZOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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