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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
Which is why I don’t understand the argument Randle would have a limited role on this team. It shouldn’t be a total surprise that Lebron doesn’t want to play much time as PF or C. Instead of keeping the one guy that is capable and willing to play the small center position, Magic brought in Beasley and Wagner, and we tried to play Kuzma at C, only to find out these experiments don’t work. |
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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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lakersfan8 wrote: | Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
Which is why I don’t understand the argument Randle would have a limited role on this team. It shouldn’t be a total surprise that Lebron doesn’t want to play much time as PF or C. Instead of keeping the one guy that is capable and willing to play the small center position, Magic brought in Beasley and Wagner, and we tried to play Kuzma at C, only to find out these experiments don’t work. |
It's all documented randle wanted out.
How many times are we going to talk about spilled milk? |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Ramona just told Mason that Magic really still is high on Ingram... she also said she would trade Lonzo and Kuzma if she had to choose from the core.
My guess is that she's parroting management's current mood. |
I've also heard that Magic's the guy in the front office who's particularly high on Ingram. Which, if you're going to want to have a guy in the FO who's high on you, that's who you'd want. I'd also guess that the second part is her opinion.
Magic being high on a guy who looks like he's trying to score in the 1980's isn't unexpected. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Ramona just told Mason that Magic really still is high on Ingram... she also said she would trade Lonzo and Kuzma if she had to choose from the core.
My guess is that she's parroting management's current mood. |
I've also heard that Magic's the guy in the front office who's particularly high on Ingram. Which, if you're going to want to have a guy in the FO who's high on you, that's who you'd want. I'd also guess that the second part is her opinion.
Magic being high on a guy who looks like he's trying to score in the 1980's isn't unexpected. |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:46 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Ramona just told Mason that Magic really still is high on Ingram... she also said she would trade Lonzo and Kuzma if she had to choose from the core.
My guess is that she's parroting management's current mood. |
I've also heard that Magic's the guy in the front office who's particularly high on Ingram. Which, if you're going to want to have a guy in the FO who's high on you, that's who you'd want. I'd also guess that the second part is her opinion.
Magic being high on a guy who looks like he's trying to score in the 1980's isn't unexpected. |
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Ouch. |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3169
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Jesusdelonla wrote: | lakersfan8 wrote: | Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
Which is why I don’t understand the argument Randle would have a limited role on this team. It shouldn’t be a total surprise that Lebron doesn’t want to play much time as PF or C. Instead of keeping the one guy that is capable and willing to play the small center position, Magic brought in Beasley and Wagner, and we tried to play Kuzma at C, only to find out these experiments don’t work. |
It's all documented randle wanted out.
How many times are we going to talk about spilled milk? |
Where is that document? _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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la4win Star Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2010 Posts: 2239
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:58 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | 22 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Ramona just told Mason that Magic really still is high on Ingram... she also said she would trade Lonzo and Kuzma if she had to choose from the core.
My guess is that she's parroting management's current mood. |
I've also heard that Magic's the guy in the front office who's particularly high on Ingram. Which, if you're going to want to have a guy in the FO who's high on you, that's who you'd want. I'd also guess that the second part is her opinion.
Magic being high on a guy who looks like he's trying to score in the 1980's isn't unexpected. |
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Ouch. |
Or it could be Magic knows BI has been the next player after Bron that’s impactful in winning games with his overall game. |
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av3773 Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3750
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Can't really bring Randle into this, Lakers want the financial flexibility to sign mega stars, Randles # wasn't going to fit with that ...end of story.......
Expect the same thing to happen with BI if it doesn't look like he is going to be an upper echelon player.....until we land at least two bona fide all stars don't expect the Lakers to make any long term commitments to any of our current players as far as new contracts go
I actually think more and more BI will be moved at the deadline.....for what I don't know....but it wouldn't surprise me at all |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Just bear in mind, most of the targets next summer will affect BI (and if LBJ wants to continue playing "SF"). I don't think BI as a SG is the most effective to develop him at all.
KD: will be playing SF/PF.
KL: will be playing SF/SG.
Klay: playing SG.
Kemba: might move Lonzo to "SG."
In any scenario, it's BI that the team is trying fit a square peg in a round hole. He's a "SF" to me but unless LBJ decides to move to PF full-time, it's just an awkward fit. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: |
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la4win wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | 22 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Ramona just told Mason that Magic really still is high on Ingram... she also said she would trade Lonzo and Kuzma if she had to choose from the core.
My guess is that she's parroting management's current mood. |
I've also heard that Magic's the guy in the front office who's particularly high on Ingram. Which, if you're going to want to have a guy in the FO who's high on you, that's who you'd want. I'd also guess that the second part is her opinion.
Magic being high on a guy who looks like he's trying to score in the 1980's isn't unexpected. |
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Ouch. |
Or it could be Magic knows BI has been the next player after Bron that’s impactful in winning games with his overall game. |
He hasn’t been and we’re in trouble if Magic and/or Luke think that. You may be right though. |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:58 am Post subject: |
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av3773 wrote: | Can't really bring Randle into this, Lakers want the financial flexibility to sign mega stars, Randles # wasn't going to fit with that ...end of story.......
Expect the same thing to happen with BI if it doesn't look like he is going to be an upper echelon player.....until we land at least two bona fide all stars don't expect the Lakers to make any long term commitments to any of our current players as far as new contracts go
I actually think more and more BI will be moved at the deadline.....for what I don't know....but it wouldn't surprise me at all |
I think that magic and rob have a desire to move on from everything Mitch and Jim related. I don’t think that BI is going to be moved this season though,, I don’t think we have the pieces to make a decent trade at this point unless KCP agrees to be traded.
I do expect us to sign one more max FA next offseason, whether that’s KD, Butler, Kawhi, or maybe even cousins if he comes back strong. Once that Happens I expect a couple of our youngsters to be packaged up and traded for a 3rd piece. At that point I’d expect Walton to be replaced unless he improves dramatically. |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: |
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la4win wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | 22 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Ramona just told Mason that Magic really still is high on Ingram... she also said she would trade Lonzo and Kuzma if she had to choose from the core.
My guess is that she's parroting management's current mood. |
I've also heard that Magic's the guy in the front office who's particularly high on Ingram. Which, if you're going to want to have a guy in the FO who's high on you, that's who you'd want. I'd also guess that the second part is her opinion.
Magic being high on a guy who looks like he's trying to score in the 1980's isn't unexpected. |
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Ouch. |
Or it could be Magic knows BI has been the next player after Bron that’s impactful in winning games with his overall game. |
Or Magic wants to keep BI's trade value up. No need to come out and say in public if they are down on him or not. Magic is playing Chess. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Tweetgood Mac
@SnottieDrippen
I believe that Jaylen and Rozier WANT to fit in and play their positions and be good foot soldiers. But after getting a taste of that offensive freedom and a chance to shine in the limelight, it's REALLY hard to now reel that back in and be a complementary piece. Pandora's box |
I feel that this is sort of BI's issue right now. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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The Lebrons Star Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 Posts: 4778
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:52 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Tweetgood Mac
@SnottieDrippen
I believe that Jaylen and Rozier WANT to fit in and play their positions and be good foot soldiers. But after getting a taste of that offensive freedom and a chance to shine in the limelight, it's REALLY hard to now reel that back in and be a complementary piece. Pandora's box |
I feel that this is sort of BI's issue right now. |
I think the bigger issue is BI can't create good shots for himself. It's just much more noticeable now that his touches are down. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:54 am Post subject: |
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It's a coaching/FO issue.
They lathered him up and treated him like a surefire #1 option (remember Magic's 20+ppg thing last year?).
Instead of building him from the bottom up, they started him at the top.
Now that we have LBJ and other vets, the transition is rough for him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:59 am Post subject: |
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And sadly, if we get another max FA wing, BI's role gets diminished even more. I really like the kid but feel like things are getting stacked against him and that's from the management/coaching level. They haven't done a great job preparing him for this role (diminished). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:04 am Post subject: |
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As I've said. BI probably puts up better numbers on another team where he becomes the 1A. But I don't think that team wins a lot. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Just bear in mind, most of the targets next summer will affect BI (and if LBJ wants to continue playing "SF"). I don't think BI as a SG is the most effective to develop him at all.
KD: will be playing SF/PF.
KL: will be playing SF/SG.
Klay: playing SG.
Kemba: might move Lonzo to "SG."
In any scenario, it's BI that the team is trying fit a square peg in a round hole. He's a "SF" to me but unless LBJ decides to move to PF full-time, it's just an awkward fit. |
His best play has been at pg. Just saying. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26074
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
You be a coach and try to do what you feel is actually best for the team.
Walking on egg shells and putting in weaker lineups just to make someone else happy even if it's to the determent of the team is not a good way to coach.
If we had Popovich and he put that lineup together and LeBron decided to try "Yeah that works but I don't want to play the 4." Popovich would tell him "You playing the 4 helps the team as a whole more than you playing the 3. You're playing the 4 or you're riding the bench" or just the second sentence in general and that'd be the end of it. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
You be a coach and try to do what you feel is actually best for the team.
Walking on egg shells and putting in weaker lineups just to make someone else happy even if it's to the determent of the team is not a good way to coach.
If we had Popovich and he put that lineup together and LeBron went "Yeah that works but I don't want to play the 4." Popovich would tell him "You're playing the 4 or you're riding the bench" and that'd be the end of it. |
You do realize Duncan was basically a center and Pop catered to having lesser players start at center for Duncan? That's a poor example. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26074
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
You be a coach and try to do what you feel is actually best for the team.
Walking on egg shells and putting in weaker lineups just to make someone else happy even if it's to the determent of the team is not a good way to coach.
If we had Popovich and he put that lineup together and LeBron went "Yeah that works but I don't want to play the 4." Popovich would tell him "You're playing the 4 or you're riding the bench" and that'd be the end of it. |
You do realize Duncan was basically a center and Pop catered to having lesser players start at center for Duncan? That's a poor example. |
Duncan was a 4/5 just like LeBron is a 1/3/4. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Jesusdelonla wrote: | MJST wrote: | Thing is they wouldn't need to do any of that if Luke actually had the foresight to put Kuzma on the bench and play Ingram at his natural position and move Hart to the starting 2.
It's literally that things are transpiring as they are because Luke doesn't want to be an actual coach and try something like putting LeBron at the 4 and starting Hart and Ingram with Lonzo and McGee.
The risk is that we look bad and lose, then eyes are on Luke, but the other side of it is if we win or it winds up workign better than even if LeBron didn't want to full time 4, if it's for the betterment of the team he isn't going to be complaining about it.
For all the "he can play any position" the 4 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for him.
It is less of a stretch asking LeBron to play the 4 than it is asking Ingram to main the 2. |
And what if LEBRON has said no to playing 4? |
You be a coach and try to do what you feel is actually best for the team.
Walking on egg shells and putting in weaker lineups just to make someone else happy even if it's to the determent of the team is not a good way to coach.
If we had Popovich and he put that lineup together and LeBron went "Yeah that works but I don't want to play the 4." Popovich would tell him "You're playing the 4 or you're riding the bench" and that'd be the end of it. |
You do realize Duncan was basically a center and Pop catered to having lesser players start at center for Duncan? That's a poor example. |
Duncan was a 4/5 just like LeBron is a 1/3/4. |
Duncan told Pop he didn't want to play the 5 so he had to get guys like Nesterovic, etc. to play "center" b/c Duncan who probably had higher efficacy at center didn't want to.
So the fact that LBJ wants to play 3 and 4 to close games is exactly what Pop did with Duncan at 4/5. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Tweetgood Mac
@SnottieDrippen
I believe that Jaylen and Rozier WANT to fit in and play their positions and be good foot soldiers. But after getting a taste of that offensive freedom and a chance to shine in the limelight, it's REALLY hard to now reel that back in and be a complementary piece. Pandora's box |
I feel that this is sort of BI's issue right now. |
Is Ingram already thinking about piling up stats so he has something to show when negotiating his next contract?
Reports have Rozier seeking a large contract and reduced opportunities this season works against the pursuit of that goal. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Tweetgood Mac
@SnottieDrippen
I believe that Jaylen and Rozier WANT to fit in and play their positions and be good foot soldiers. But after getting a taste of that offensive freedom and a chance to shine in the limelight, it's REALLY hard to now reel that back in and be a complementary piece. Pandora's box |
I feel that this is sort of BI's issue right now. |
Is Ingram already thinking about piling up stats so he has something to show when negotiating his next contract?
Reports have Rozier seeking a large contract and reduced opportunities this season works against the pursuit of that goal. |
Yeah. BI probably has that in mind as well. And rightfully, guys want to get paid, and playing a lesser role won't help that. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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