OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Hopefully he didn't go the Russell or Randle route because he might not be on the team very long if he does. Hopefully he buys in to the team first concept.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject:

Ingram should start. Why should he lose his starting spot because of an injury? Have the Lakers been that much better without him? IMO he's better than Hart. If he struggles with LeBron, stagger the minutes. But the Lakers need to continue to build chemistry with the two.

We're winning games right now and they haven't figured it out yet. Just wait until they do.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
@GT is about go be on ESPN710 RIGHT NOW


Ireland on ESPN 710 saying Luke should play Ingram like Phil played Odom off the bench. But then added Ingram probably wouldn’t like coming off the bench.


If it's about what's best for the team then who cares what Ingram likes or doesn't like? He's not good enough to be dictating terms.

Odom was a way better player than Ingram and established himself as a player long before he became a Laker. He accepted his 6th man role for the good of the team and found a way to flourish.


that's the key right there, he's not good enough to have lineup changes surrounding his skills or lack thereof.


But if he refuses to come off the bench, then what do you do?

You gotta start him while you work on trades.


Bench him anyways and let him pout. You don’t allow role players to strongarm your staff or FO. That’s a matter of principle that is followed by the top organizations in sports. I don’t think Ingram would refuse although I think he would be openly upset.


His trade value tanks in that scenario though. Wouldn’t the best thing be, to say ok, Ingram, and then work the phones?

And if you can’t find a favorable deal then you bench him anyway?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
@GT is about go be on ESPN710 RIGHT NOW


Ireland on ESPN 710 saying Luke should play Ingram like Phil played Odom off the bench. But then added Ingram probably wouldn’t like coming off the bench.


If it's about what's best for the team then who cares what Ingram likes or doesn't like? He's not good enough to be dictating terms.

Odom was a way better player than Ingram and established himself as a player long before he became a Laker. He accepted his 6th man role for the good of the team and found a way to flourish.


that's the key right there, he's not good enough to have lineup changes surrounding his skills or lack thereof.


But if he refuses to come off the bench, then what do you do?

You gotta start him while you work on trades.


Bench him anyways and let him pout. You don’t allow role players to strongarm your staff or FO. That’s a matter of principle that is followed by the top organizations in sports. I don’t think Ingram would refuse although I think he would be openly upset.


His trade value tanks in that scenario though. Wouldn’t the best thing be, to say ok, Ingram, and then work the phones?

And if you can’t find a favorable deal then you bench him anyway?


I’m old school in this way and many will say it’s an idiotic opinion but I think you let his value tank. Send a message to the team that valuing yourself over the group won’t be tolerated and hopefully you make a quick deal before his value is completely diminished. I don’t think that would be necessary though, he’ll likely pout for a few games maybe even a few weeks but eventually he’ll start to trying and fill his new role to the best of his abilities. Culture matters especially when the goal is sustainability and you have a young group with a lot of potential.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
@GT is about go be on ESPN710 RIGHT NOW


Ireland on ESPN 710 saying Luke should play Ingram like Phil played Odom off the bench. But then added Ingram probably wouldn’t like coming off the bench.


If it's about what's best for the team then who cares what Ingram likes or doesn't like? He's not good enough to be dictating terms.

Odom was a way better player than Ingram and established himself as a player long before he became a Laker. He accepted his 6th man role for the good of the team and found a way to flourish.


that's the key right there, he's not good enough to have lineup changes surrounding his skills or lack thereof.


But if he refuses to come off the bench, then what do you do?

You gotta start him while you work on trades.


Bench him anyways and let him pout. You don’t allow role players to strongarm your staff or FO. That’s a matter of principle that is followed by the top organizations in sports. I don’t think Ingram would refuse although I think he would be openly upset.


His trade value tanks in that scenario though. Wouldn’t the best thing be, to say ok, Ingram, and then work the phones?

And if you can’t find a favorable deal then you bench him anyway?


I’m old school in this way and many will say it’s an idiotic opinion but I think you let his value tank. Send a message to the team that valuing yourself over the group won’t be tolerated and hopefully you make a quick deal before his value is completely diminished. I don’t think that would be necessary though, he’ll likely pout for a few games maybe even a few weeks but eventually he’ll start to trying and fill his new role to the best of his abilities. Culture matters especially when the goal is sustainability and you have a young group with a lot of potential.


You can accomplish that lesson through trading Ingram but doing so in a manner where lt maximizes your return.

And as I said, if it doesn’t work, then you can just bench him anyway and send your message then.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject:

Ingram was benched in the rookie season. It was Magic hyping him as 20 PPG scorer in 2017 offseason and saying he's big time that developed an ego in Ingram. Suddenly after suspension Ingram is like I am starting either ways. While JR was benched for role player Nance and didn't say anything in public.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
@GT is about go be on ESPN710 RIGHT NOW


Ireland on ESPN 710 saying Luke should play Ingram like Phil played Odom off the bench. But then added Ingram probably wouldn’t like coming off the bench.


If it's about what's best for the team then who cares what Ingram likes or doesn't like? He's not good enough to be dictating terms.

Odom was a way better player than Ingram and established himself as a player long before he became a Laker. He accepted his 6th man role for the good of the team and found a way to flourish.


that's the key right there, he's not good enough to have lineup changes surrounding his skills or lack thereof.


But if he refuses to come off the bench, then what do you do?

You gotta start him while you work on trades.


Bench him anyways and let him pout. You don’t allow role players to strongarm your staff or FO. That’s a matter of principle that is followed by the top organizations in sports. I don’t think Ingram would refuse although I think he would be openly upset.


His trade value tanks in that scenario though. Wouldn’t the best thing be, to say ok, Ingram, and then work the phones?

And if you can’t find a favorable deal then you bench him anyway?


I’m old school in this way and many will say it’s an idiotic opinion but I think you let his value tank. Send a message to the team that valuing yourself over the group won’t be tolerated and hopefully you make a quick deal before his value is completely diminished. I don’t think that would be necessary though, he’ll likely pout for a few games maybe even a few weeks but eventually he’ll start to trying and fill his new role to the best of his abilities. Culture matters especially when the goal is sustainability and you have a young group with a lot of potential.


You can accomplish that lesson through trading Ingram but doing so in a manner where lt maximizes your return.

And as I said, if it doesn’t work, then you can just bench him anyway and send your message then.


But is the damage already done by then? Do Hart Zo and Kuz start playing selfishly because there’s no repercussions? Do they not play hard off the bench cause that’s what Ingram did to start? That just opens up a can of worms that I’m not interested in opening. I see the positives in it but as I said, I value culture more than most and don’t like risking toxic behavior becoming contagious in the locker room. Ingram would fall in line and not cause problems either way IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject:

botox wrote:
Ingram should start. Why should he lose his starting spot because of an injury? Have the Lakers been that much better without him? IMO he's better than Hart. If he struggles with LeBron, stagger the minutes. But the Lakers need to continue to build chemistry with the two.

We're winning games right now and they haven't figured it out yet. Just wait until they do.


The starting lineup has been that much better with Hart in his place, yes.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Really wish the coaching staff developed him from the ground up and didn't force "option 1" roles to him last year. It's always more difficult to reduce a player's role downward and much easier to build them up to stardom.


That is what Magic wanted
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject:

Who starts is the most meaningless part of basketball. The more important facet of the game is who finishes. Luke has many options and versatility in his toolbox. Unlike many divas, I would not expect BI to be a problem if he comes off the bench.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Really wish the coaching staff developed him from the ground up and didn't force "option 1" roles to him last year. It's always more difficult to reduce a player's role downward and much easier to build them up to stardom.


That is what Magic wanted


Well the only way to fix them spoiling him is to put him back in his rightful place and bench him, whether he pouts or not. Happened to Jules, happened to Dlo, happened to Kuz, Hart, Nance, even Zo temporarily, you name it...show him he's not immune. I doubt he even reacts openly given that we're winning and with Lebron on the team, though unfortunately Lebron may be part of the crew enabling him to begin with...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
botox wrote:
Ingram should start. Why should he lose his starting spot because of an injury? Have the Lakers been that much better without him? IMO he's better than Hart. If he struggles with LeBron, stagger the minutes. But the Lakers need to continue to build chemistry with the two.

We're winning games right now and they haven't figured it out yet. Just wait until they do.


The starting lineup has been that much better with Hart in his place, yes.


I just don't get why they're so scared of benching BI, of all people, and worried about his feelings, ego, development, trade value, whatever when they've had no problem doing so in the past to pretty much every 1st rounder we've had in the last few years. If he's as good of a kid as everyone says he is, he should be fine and hopefully motivated to be a better player and mold his game to fit this team and roster better. I don't really think what he said after he got suspended and was about to come back (when he declared himself a starter) means much - that was just the typical pro sports player bravado speaking.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject:

Why do you all take what he said out of context? Are you so shallow and dying to find a problem with Brandon that you try to make him suddenly have an ego?!? Or is it possible that Luke told him “you’re going to be in the starting lineup but I’m not sure what it’s going to look like yet” and he just didn’t give the most PC answer there to satisfy all of anti-Ingram minds?!?

Because there are some people here who made their minds up about Ingram the moment he was drafted and still have yet to relenquish that belief. Even though has proven he’s a good basketball player and a terrific teammate who works his butt of and despite the narrative LG is trying to create DOES change his game to adapt to the role he’s given. He’s done it basically his entire career never being allowed to settle into one set role.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Why do you all take what he said out of context? Are you so shallow and dying to find a problem with Brandon that you try to make him suddenly have an ego?!? Or is it possible that Luke told him “you’re going to be in the starting lineup but I’m not sure what it’s going to look like yet” and he just didn’t give the most PC answer there to satisfy all of anti-Ingram minds?!?

Because there are some people here who made their minds up about Ingram the moment he was drafted and still have yet to relenquish that belief. Even though has proven he’s a good basketball player and a terrific teammate who works his butt of and despite the narrative LG is trying to create DOES change his game to adapt to the role he’s given. He’s done it basically his entire career never being allowed to settle into one set role.


I saw the video, he acted like he was above coming off the bench. It’s not about PC it’s about not scoffing at the idea. He’s proven to be a talented basketball player but he hasn’t proven to be a terrific teammate who works his butt off, or somebody willing to fill a lesser role. He actually has already shown some bad body language when he doesn’t get the ball when he wants. Analytics stil don’t paint him as a good basketball player although I’d agree that he is one. We can keep acting like he’s never had a specific role and I guess that’s somewhat true but it’s also exaggerated quite a bit. His role may have changed over the years but how he’s played and approached the game has never changed much.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject:

What has Ingram done or not done to warrant being benched?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject:

49:00 Kevin O’Connor wondering if Ingram will still be a Laker:

https://www.theringer.com/2018/12/11/18136662/the-mismatch-lebron-thought-about-new-york-knicks-but-it-was-all-a-pipe-dream

So it’s not just Lakers fans/analyst, but other NBA analysts also noticing that Ingram is not fitting as smoothly with LeBron.

Another note, he also mentioned at 44:00 that he heard from other NBA execs that Ariza to Lakers is going to happen and pretty much almost “done.”
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject:

botox wrote:
What has Ingram done or not done to warrant being benched?


He has been out played by Hart.

I think the real question is should BI or Ball be on the bench. That one is tougher for me to answer and If Ariza starts maybe both
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject:

I like Hart, but, IMO, he hasn't played better than Ingram. Hart's nowhere near Imgram and I like his game. Ingram probably even plays Fortnite better than Hart. KCP and Hart are interchangeable. Are you taking Hart's best game and comparing it to Ingram's worst?

If we trade Ingram, it will be one we regret two years from now.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject:

botox wrote:
I like Hart, but, IMO, he hasn't played better than Ingram. Hart's nowhere near Imgram and I like his game. Ingram probably even plays Fortnite better than Hart. KCP and Hart are interchangeable. Are you taking Hart's best game and comparing it to Ingram's worst?

If we trade Ingram, it will be one we regret two years from now.


It's not about Hart playing better than Ingram or being a better player, the TEAM plays better with Hart in the first unit.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Yeah Hart hasn't played better than Ingram... but he does help spread the floor.

The question is whether the threat of Hart's three is creating more shots for Kuzma... or did Kuzma just happen to finally get hot again?

If Kuzma continues to stay on fire especially from distance... he can unlock driving lanes for BI... then the fit won't be so awkward.

The ideal lineup includes BI from a defensive standpoint... as we've still been giving up a lot of easy buckets.

I think it's a chicken vs. egg debate that may not be resolved until we see them play longer.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject:

Come on, Ingram’s a big boy. You start based on best matchups. Some nights you get 30 minutes, sometimes just 15-20. You try to improve and do what’s best for the team. I’m sure Brandon realizes this concept too.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Yeah Hart hasn't played better than Ingram... but he does help spread the floor.

The question is whether the threat of Hart's three is creating more shots for Kuzma... or did Kuzma just happen to finally get hot again?

If Kuzma continues to stay on fire especially from distance... he can unlock driving lanes for BI... then the fit won't be so awkward.

The ideal lineup includes BI from a defensive standpoint... as we've still been giving up a lot of easy buckets.

I think it's a chicken vs. egg debate that may not be resolved until we see them play longer.


The Zo/Hart/LBJ/Kuz/McGee lineup is better by defensive rating(and offensive and net for that matter) than the Zo/Ingram/LBJ/Kuz/Mcgee lineup. Switch Tyson and Javale and it still holds true. Ingram has gotten much better on the ball defensively. He’s been our best 1v1 wing defender but his effort, activity, and effectiveness overall as a defender has been overrated on here.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject:

PengShow wrote:
botox wrote:
I like Hart, but, IMO, he hasn't played better than Ingram. Hart's nowhere near Imgram and I like his game. Ingram probably even plays Fortnite better than Hart. KCP and Hart are interchangeable. Are you taking Hart's best game and comparing it to Ingram's worst?

If we trade Ingram, it will be one we regret two years from now.


It's not about Hart playing better than Ingram or being a better player, the TEAM plays better with Hart in the first unit.


Sample size too small for that. Team was winning games with Ingram starting. Kuzma has played better with Ingram hurt. If he played poorly, everyone would say, we need Ingram, which they were doing after the San Antonio loss.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject:

botox wrote:
PengShow wrote:
botox wrote:
I like Hart, but, IMO, he hasn't played better than Ingram. Hart's nowhere near Imgram and I like his game. Ingram probably even plays Fortnite better than Hart. KCP and Hart are interchangeable. Are you taking Hart's best game and comparing it to Ingram's worst?

If we trade Ingram, it will be one we regret two years from now.


It's not about Hart playing better than Ingram or being a better player, the TEAM plays better with Hart in the first unit.


Sample size too small for that. Team was winning games with Ingram starting. Kuzma has played better with Ingram hurt. If he played poorly, everyone would say, we need Ingram, which they were doing after the San Antonio loss.


The sample size isn't too small. This group's played over 100 minutes together and they're just over 10 points per possession better with Hart instead of Ingram.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo
Hart
Koozy
James
McGee

Rondo
KCP
Tiny Dog
Chandler

nobody else should play unless circumstances require them to
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